Video "Silver" Macaw Beautiful but is it ethical?

[Sarahmoluccan]

This came on recommend videos for me.

While beautiful, I really wonder what's the point? And what are the unintended consequences of messing with a birds genes like that? I don't really like it when breeding is done solely for looks in any animal. I know it's done all the time and that includes the bird world, but it does leave me feeling uneasy. Like looks are put before health.

Plus birds are alright beautiful the way they are. I don't think this "sliver" Macaw is any better looking than the Macaws already out there. Just my take on things. What's yours?

 

[MiniMacaw]

That’s a striking bird because it’s rare. But once all birds were new and rare as well to people. I think there are so many many things people could put their efforts toward (curing cancer, homelessness, helping your community to name a few) besides making new colors in birds, but I understand it’s a big money maker. Just seems annoying to me since there are so many beautiful birds out there that need homes already.

 

[Garet]

I really don't see a problem with this, personally, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the health of the bird. It's really no different than what happens to other animals (birds included) under our care. Only my lovebird looks like his wild counterparts. My dogs look nothing like wolves, my budgie wouldn't blend in with a wild flock, my tiel would be instantly rejected by others of her kind. It'd be kind of hypocritical of me to get angry over this when all of the pets I have ever owned look nothing like their wild counterparts.

As far as I can tell from a quick google search, no one has mentioned any health problems occurring from this mutation (though it might be due to rarity). Is it pretty, imho? Sure, I'm a sucker for white or black animals. Is it for me? Nah.

That’s a striking bird because it’s rare. But once all birds were new and rare as well to people. I think there are so many many things people could put their efforts toward (curing cancer, homelessness, helping your community to name a few) besides making new colors in birds, but I understand it’s a big money maker. Just seems annoying to me since there are so many beautiful birds out there that need homes already.

Not everyone is capable of working towards curing cancer, and breeding new bird colors doesn't prevent anyone from doing that on the side while working towards curing cancer or helping their community. I mean, if you think of it, they provide jobs to people within their breeding programs which helps the community and keeps their employees from being homeless. They also need to buy their birds food, pay for veterinary care, ect, all of which goes back into the community and helps keep businesses afloat.

For all we know, the people who breed them might put their money into cancer research, the community, charities, ect.

 

[aooratrix]

It's a mutation, no different than violet ringnecks, lutino Quakers, spangle budgies, etc. It's a stunning bird, and I have no problem with it unless they're breeding mutation to mutation: that often can create size reduction and possible health issues.

 

[ode.to.parrots]

I sort of have mixed feelings, but that is also because I have mixed feelings about breeding birds in general, given the number of birds in need of homes.

I'm not sure if there is enough info here to make a judgement call. Is there an article or anything like that? For all we know based on the video, finding this mutation could have been totally random.

No doubt it is a beautiful bird (Although, I'll admit, I can't think of a single parrot that I don't find beautiful).

 

[ode.to.parrots]

Also, random side note, but @Sarahmoluccan, I always appreciate the thought-provoking conversations you start here. It is one of the things I appreciate about you. Your questions and ideas help us all learn and grow.

 

[Sarahmoluccan]

@Garet I get where you are coming from but even the way some dog breeds are bred I major problems with. As some dogs breeds have gone way too far and some breeders literally put looks ahead of health causing some serious health problems. That said I'm not against breeding dogs when done ethically.

@aooratrix Do you think it's possible that a bird could look like without breeding mutation to mutation? I honestly don't know and I wish I knew more about genetics

@ode.to.parrots I agree we need more info too. It also reminds me of red factor A drive Greys. I'm on sure of the status of how threatened B&G are. But with the Grey's I know they Cites 1 so if conservation is part of the goal of breeding than I find there are moral reasons not to breed red factor ones. Like you I'm not fond of breeding birds, especially the large one.

And Thank you for complement. I enjoy a good discussions about the ethics of things, especially when they are animal related I just hope I'm not annoying the mods with them. I don't want to start arguments but I think it's healthy to talk about these things as long as we respect each other

 

[Ankou]

Too many factors really go into breeding (is the breeder ethical? Humane? Inbreeding? How hard is it to get uniquely colored birds in a species that breed so slowly and would normally pair bond for life?) to offer an opinion but as a whole mutations in birds don't bother me.

I mean, look at peach face lovebirds. Just a ludicrous number of color mutations to the point where many birds have multiple mutations at once. But despite them coming in nearly ever color possible the mutation birds seem to live as long as be as healthy as their wild-colored counterparts. Plus as awareness of their care increases many are living longer despite being bred for color. For creating that rainbow it probably helps that they breed readily and many birds in the pet trade for smaller, more common/less valuable species are many generations removed from the wild.
But something similar like budgies that are mass bred in mills as disposable pets, even a natural green bird seems likely to be unhealthy and have it's life cut short. The problem isn't that they were bred for color specifically but just suffer from abhorrent practices overall. That's true of many species but budgies have been hit the hardest, logically they should live as long as other similarly sized birds but even in great homes many do not make it past 10.

As an aside, that bird is a blue and gold? I honestly like the natural ones better! Striking and unique but still.
Kinda like fischer's lovebirds, tons of mutations and the natural colored ones are still my favorites.

 

[Garet]

@Sarahmoluccan I feel the same way about dogs, too. I would never own a pug or those squat pitbulls they make these days that look worse than some bulldogs, even if I love my pibbles. There really should be some sort of penalty for breeding animals when you know they're going to produce unhealthy offspring (pretty much all show dogs are unhealthy, imho). If something like that happened in this breeding, then yeah, silvers probably shouldn't be a thing. If not, then I don't see a reason why these birds shouldn't exist.

 

[ode.to.parrots]

@Sarahmoluccan I actually had not thought of the conservation aspect, but that's a good point. If African Grey's, for example, are threatened in the wild, then why put so much time and energy on producing greys with a red factor mutation that would never be able to be part of a rehabilitation program? Why not focus on breeding normal greys and help preserve the species in the wild? There are programs like this for scarlet macaws and spix macaws. Those are breeding programs I can support! Could you imagine if someone tried to breed a spix macaws for a mutation? It would mess up the species' tiny gene pool. (I will go on record to say now that I am not an expert in breeding at all! I am relying on what I learned from AP Biology here! Haha).

I also agree - respect is key!

 

[SpecialistElbru]

I think I summed up my opinion on the issues well in this post ...

Blue mutation(s) and longevity connection? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

Have not seen the video yet, but if anything I see changes my mind I will tell you.

 

[Joey wade]

This guy lives here in Thailand I think. I've seen those mutations posted for sale here and he has a Thai name.

 

[ode.to.parrots]

This guy lives here in Thailand I think. I've seen those mutations posted for sale here and he has a Thai name.

Wait.... You mean there is more than one?

 

[DQTimnehs]

I do think it’s a beautiful bird! Breeding for mutations usually involves breeding closely related animals (speaking generally here). Breeding birds in general is often not done with completely unrelated birds. With importations closed there are only so many bloodlines available and many birds come from the few original imports. Inbreeding brings out recessive gene issues. Unrelated gene pools are less likely to carry the same recessive genes for issues that won’t show up unless 2 of the same recessive gene are paired together. So by inbreeding for mutation, the offspring’s health may be compromised.
Regarding red factor “greys”, I don’t find the all red birds to be an improvement over normal greys. They are unique but I don’t find them appealing or attractive.

 

[Zoepr143]

I also saw this video in my recommended a couple of days ago and wanted to make a thread about it but totally forgot
In my opinion it looks really pretty and healthy so I don’t see a problem.

 

[aooratrix]

@Sarahmoluccan : these mutations often appear from normal parents. I don't know the history on this one. The problem is, people often want to make a quick buck and breed mutation to mutation. This happened with blue quakers, which resulted in undersized birds until some breeders bred blue to green, produced splits, and then produced healthier Blues by pairing 2 split birds or a blue to a split.

If this guy breeds 2 normal B&Gs to silvers and gets splits, he could breed the splits together and probably get healthier babies. I'm not saying this bird is unhealthy but that future babies could be undersized or develop health issues inherent from straight mutation to mutation breeding.

 

[NK_717]

Woah! I've never seen that color mutation before

 

[finchly]

@Sarahmoluccan I feel the same way about dogs, too. I would never own a pug or those squat pitbulls they make these days that look worse than some bulldogs, even if I love my pibbles. There really should be some sort of penalty for breeding animals when you know they're going to produce unhealthy offspring (pretty much all show dogs are unhealthy, imho). If something like that happened in this breeding, then yeah, silvers probably shouldn't be a thing. If not, then I don't see a reason why these birds shouldn't exist.

I agree. And in general once something is developed that's a money maker, all he$$ breaks loose.

For example, [Long Rant begins here] in the finch world at present it's silver gouldians, and the blues are still real popular too. Even though 90% of silvers and blues do not produce, and they are notorious for illness. These are recessive genes so they aren't readily available, and with the low level of breeding it will probably always be that way.

I lucked out and have healthy ones, but I cringe when people want only silvers or blues and practically hang up when I say I don't have any. I know they're going to use them for breeding, and if they don't produce they'll go from home to home. Most people won't own up to the fact that breeding didn't work (they could still sell them as pets. They just won't). I wanted all blue just because I love the color blue (walls, clothes, birds...) but quickly got away from that because I don't want everyone to come to me for their blues and then abandon them.

/end rant.

@aooratrix these mutations often appear from normal parents. In that case, it's not such a big deal? Maybe? It depends on what the health problems are, and how severe they are. My 2 cents.

Somebody stole the 2 cents emoticon, btw.

 

[Bokkapooh]

It's a baby macaw.

It's funny that these videos and pictures of red African Grey's and yellow or white blue and gold macaws mutations are always of the babies.

Why no adult pictures I wonder?

None absolutely no where.

So weird....

 

[Garet]

@finchly I feel you. Not many people have birds around here, but everyone wants small fluffy dogs. I happen to have one who was given to me by his breeder. She's pretty responsible with her dogs, only has one pair and lets them breed at their own discretion. Doesn't care much about keeping the specific breed lines, so they're healthy mutts. More importantly, they're her pets first. She brought them everywhere she went and took them to the park to play with the other dogs.

Then there's the family up my street. They had two dogs, then those dogs had a puppy and they gave the mother away. They bred father to daughter when she was still a puppy, and surprise surprise, not a single pup survived. They're essentially kenneled in the basement because "they're aggressive", and he keeps asking me to let my dog breed to his poor girl.

Poor finches, though. I looked them up and they're gorgeous. I can see why people like them. It's just a crying shame that people only want them for breeding. I know we wouldn't have any at all without breeders, but I think there should be a balance between the two. Breeders should be treated the same as pets.