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Sedation yes or no?

QBird

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I have a query regarding blood work, disease tests and cultures.

I have never had a parrot sedated for these tests yet, currently I have the ‘avian’ vet saying he may need to sedate and the other vets have not suggested sedation (?)

What dictates if a parrot will have to be sedated?
Also would the size of a bird make a difference?
 

gibsongrrrl

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I worked for a board certified avian vet and we never sedated for routine procedures like the ones you mentioned. Neither of the avian vets I have used since moving have done that either. I have no idea why it would be needed unless the bird has something else going on with it.
 

Monica

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Could depend upon the comfort level of the vet doing the testing as well as how well a bird can be restrained... for example, pet birds may be fine, but a breeder bird may need to be sedated?
 

QBird

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gibsongrrrl that is my experience.
Monica possibly the email said "If parrots needs to be sedated for blood collection"
The bird in question is a feisty bird but if the vet is competent I have seen and given other vets worse challenges to get blood from, just a bit worried that they may want to sedate him when he's so small :cautious:
 

Chantilly Lace

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My Phoenix gets so worked up that my avian vet (very trusted) has had to use it once when we needed X-rays and were microchipping. She says it is a safe gas, and she has never had a bad reaction, but it still worries me so much. She thinks the stress of visit would be worse for him than the gas. She also has a zanax type drug you can give the birds by using drops in the nose, so that would be an option too.

Once the bag over his carrier (they put the whole carrier in the bag to gas him) was not airtight, and we all got a bit of gas! All of sudden we are all feeling dizzy and realize that Phoenix was the only one not feeling it!
 

SandraK

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There's one vet I know who sedates all the birds he sees unless the owner requests otherwise - Scott E. McDonald He has seen my birds, sedated them; I watched other peoples' birds be sedated before mine were and none of my birds suffered from it. Since Dr. Scott does not have an actual office, he usually only has one person helping him. I will also say that no bird that has been sedated leaves his office before it is completely awake.

There is one other vet I know of who has used sedation but only in order to take x-rays and I haven't seen her in a couple of years.

I'd suggest that you read Dr. Scott's info and if you have any questions, email him. He's a travelling vet here in the U.S. but you should check his bio, protocols and articles to get a better idea of who he is/what he's like. Then look at his calendar ... the man travels more than a travelling salesman. He did once say that his goal in life was to have hiked the complete Appalachian trail before he retires. So far, that hasn't stopped him from hiking just about anywhere else he can get to.

I'm just glad you were able to find an 'avian' vet in your neck of the woods (as my parents would've said).
 

Milo

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Sedation is always a risk, always. Anyone who tells you differently is full of it. You need to speak with your vet about their experience, and what anesthetic they use, and also specifically ask who is monitoring the anesthesia. I wouldn't trust a clinic that doesn't have at least one certified/registered/licensed vet tech to help with something like that. An experienced staff will take a lot of the risk out of it. Not all, but some. The type of anesthetic also makes a difference, the invention of gas anesthetics like isoflurane and sevoflurane have made anesthesia much safer because of how they're metabolized, they enter and leave the body very quickly which means that the bird is sedated much more quickly and will wake up much faster. Again, competent staff will make all the difference!

Each vet does things a little differently and that's not a bad thing. The vet that I work with will sedate the smaller birds (under 150g) to do their blood draws because of the limited amount of blood that can be taken from those guys. Eliminating the risk that the bird will somehow move when she hits the vessel and she is able to ensure that the bird clots appropriately. She won't sedate any bird that she feels is debilitated though, because they're at a higher anesthetic risk. That's my vet. The CAV down the road at the University (who trained my vet and will consult with her) will do blood draws on any bird without sedation.

My personal opinion is that sedation for things like exams (anything non invasive) is unnecessary unless the bird is so stressed out by human contact that it is dangerous for the bird. To me, makes sense for things like blood draws on smaller birds and for x-rays on any species due to the risk of harm to the patient. Talk with your vet and ask them why they do what they do, what they use, and most importantly about their experience and the experience of their staff. If you're not satisfied or if they don't answer all of your questions, then go from there.
 

Bokkapooh

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For a small bird, its NOT NEEDED. Sometimes for a larger birds, macaw size, yes it can be useful. Its hard to restrain a macaw sized bird, even with two people. So I can see it being used, for the occasional tough restraining bird who freaks out. But a small bird should be easy.
 

Milo

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For a small bird, its NOT NEEDED. Sometimes for a larger birds, macaw size, yes it can be useful. Its hard to restrain a macaw sized bird, even with two people. So I can see it being used, for the occasional tough restraining bird who freaks out. But a small bird should be easy.
An exam and basic testing, yes. Blood draws (and here I mean jugular blood draws) I see as a reasonable use of sedation. It depends on the vet. A doctor recommending sedation for a small bird when drawing blood is NOT a sign of an unskilled vet. When my plet had to have blood drawn it was a harrowing experience. He only weighed 22g and could only safely lose 0.2mL That includes skin bleeding and potential hematoma. Not to mention that the vessel is that much smaller in a small bird. Removing a chance for error based on patient movement, and that can happen regardless of the restraint experience, is better for the bird provided that proper monitoring is in place.
 

Bokkapooh

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Oh wow! My vets never offer to do blood draws when I took my plets to the vet. I do see how it would be beneficial to lightly sedate them. But its also scary too. Ive had a bird die under the recovery period of anesthesia. (Koo :( ).
 

Milo

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Oh wow! My vets never offer to do blood draws when I took my plets to the vet. I do see how it would be beneficial to lightly sedate them. But its also scary too. Ive had a bird die under the recovery period of anesthesia. (Koo :( ).

Make no mistake, I have a very healthy respect for anesthesia. It's risky even for healthy patients, that's why it's important to have a good vet on your side. Things still happen even with the best vets for sure, but having that bloodwork can make a difference. I didn't know about Koo, I'm sorry :hug8:
 

QBird

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Thank you everyone for your comments it's given me a lot to think about.

I have to ask about the types of anesthetic and also where they intend to draw the blood. There is an Anesthetist technician there who responded to the email asking if the did the tests. I think I am going to ask if we can take any sedation as a last option but I may have to understand that the vet has been doing this now for a while and will probably be in a better position to make this judgement call.

Bokkapooh so sorry t hear about your loss.
Chantel :hehe: that's not what any of you would be expecting ;)
Sandra thank you for the link, I'm off to read now :)
Jenny yes you are totally correct - I'll read up more then contact them again when they open in the morning.
 

SandraK

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@Lady Jane I don't think QBird has very many options, so he'll have to take into consideration the possibility of not having a vet at all.

And as most of us know, when one isn't available, that's when one needs one the most. :banghead: :banghead:
 
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