Reverse Psychology - Parrot Training/Taming

[Monica]

(hope this is in right section)

When parrots are afraid of humans, such techniques as holding the bird against your chest and gently stroking it or wrapping the bird in a towel until the bird calms down are suggested. If the bird "refuses" to step up or one that continually flies off, it's suggested to ladder the bird or get the bird to step up until the bird stays.






So, what if we were to reverse the situation? Have a human that is afraid of birds and any movement by birds, especially those that fly, freak him or her out. I would like everyone to watch the following clip and tell me your thoughts about it.
My Extreme Animal Phobia: Bird-Induced Screaming Fit

 

[Lauren and Jack]

To be honest. And this is prob going to sound insensative, I know there is alot of people that would disagree with me and find me rash and cruel. But I think we are raising a weak population. We are raising weak children, then they become weak teenagers, then they continue to grown into weak adults. Fear isn't something that should dictated the way we live our lives. As a child if I was afraid of something my Father lovingly but sternly had me face it head on. My mother taught me that facing fears builds character and being fearless makes me untouchable. Being afraid of birds is irrational.

 

[Monica]

Lauren, that's a great way to view things!

Let me counter and say what if your father didn't tell you anything? What if he simply put you in a situation you feared and made you endure? What if you had no understanding of what he was trying to teach you and because of your confusion and fear, it only scared you further?


The post was made in regards to parrot training and taming, but I want people to take a step back and see how things might be, if the situation they are putting their birds in is reversed?

 

[mrstweet]

She's ridiculous. Oooh, let me shriek like a 5 year old while I touch this little cage with finches while a blue and gold macaw is just hanging out on that playgym....

Monica, the 2nd scenario would likely result in trauma. Trama vs. irrational fear.....2 VERY different things.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

People need to understand that just because something is not fearful to YOU does NOT mean it is not extremely frightening to an individual. This is flooding and it sometimes works, but is not generally considered a humane way to treat phobias. Maybe it is because I work with a lot of fearful animals, but I find it very frustrating when phobias are downplayed by others. Unless you have been very frightened of something, please be careful about assuming that the person is not genuinely afraid. I know someone who had an extreme phobia of rats. After years of therapy it was discovered that the phobia was actually linked to a really horrible life experience in which rats where a part of the association. It's really not cut and dry.

 

[mrstweet]

People need to understand that just because something is not fearful to YOU does NOT mean it is not extremely frightening to an individual. This is flooding and it sometimes works, but is not generally considered a humane way to treat phobias. Maybe it is because I work with a lot of fearful animals, but I find it very frustrating when phobias are downplayed by others. Unless you have been very frightened of something, please be careful about assuming that the person is being irrational. I know someone who had an extreme phobia of rats. After years of therapy it was discovered that the phobia was actually linked to a really horrible life experience in which rats where a part of the association. It's really not cut and dry.

I hope you don't think I'm being insensitive or irrational - because in this specific video situation, I believe someone with a true fear would definitely have noticed the huge parrot chillin' on his playstand vs. the little bitty finches in a cage. Then again, I've totally been known to be wrong and I'm not a professional. JMO.

 

[greymatron]

I never had the interest to watch this show...but I don't think this show helps people, at all, unless its a rare case...but making someone do something they're terrified of, is ridiculous, and could be more harming than not.
And I agree...I think you'd notice a huge bird sitting in the corner...out of a cage...Just waiting....

 

[BraveheartDogs]

It is impossible to know what she would notice, especially if she was extremely anxious and fearful. Also, her fear could be more of movement, or smaller birds, or smaller birds moving around. I am extremely uncomfortable around maggots (which thankfully I don't have to be exposed to!), but am not uncomfortable around larger worms and not uncomfortable around snakes. It is maggots, specifically that gross me out. I don't have extreme phobia of them but I am just saying that with phobias or fears it can be very complex.

I work with a lot of fearful dogs and a lot of owners start out thinking that the dog "shouldn't be afraid" because they (the owner) doesn't think it makes sense, but that is what a phobia is, an irrational fear of something. This is why it is a phobia and this is why dealing with them has to be done carefully, thoughtfully and systematically.

I hope you don't think I'm being insensitive or irrational - because in this specific video situation, I believe someone with a true fear would definitely have noticed the huge parrot chillin' on his playstand vs. the little bitty finches in a cage. Then again, I've totally been known to be wrong and I'm not a professional. JMO.

 

[greymatron]

Very true..I even wonder how true this show is...How can someone be afraid of a kitten?..Meh..I just don't understand fear of animals in general..I will say though...If a polar bear or an alligator/crocodile came after me...Ohh...I would be 'going' all over the place...Yikes..

 

[Lauren and Jack]

I think raising human children is alot like owning and training an animal. Both takes alot of confidence, stablity, love and patients. Amanda, I think you are right and I agree with. I think as parents to human children we have become soft and we lack the moral ethics which is needed to in still good character. Well rounded adults, typically don't have irrational fears. As far as animals having fears... Normally its because they lack self confidence or they have seen simalar outcomes of already hard situations. All animal "phobia" can be avoid if the owner provides a well rounded lifestyle, full of love and structure. I had to trian a dog that was afraid of stairs. So we targeted the behavior problem of the owner and did several self confidence excersise, which ultimatly was fixed after just a few weeks.

 

[JLcribber]

A phobia for an animal is not anything like a phobia for a human. An animal does not have the ability to rationalize or see beyond the situation whereas humans "do". Comparing apples and oranges.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Actually, it's not John. Humans with extreme phobias do not have the ability to just "rationalize" it. If this was the case they wouldn't use the same methods for desensitizing and counter conditioning humans and non-human animals. You can't just tell a human with a phobia to "get over it" or "rationalize" it any more than you can a non-human animal with a phobia.

A phobia for an animal is not anything like a phobia for a human. An animal does not have the ability to rationalize or see beyond the situation whereas humans "do". Comparing apples and oranges.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

This isn't true actually. Having phobias is NOT a sign of "lack of character". I'm sorry, but people need to be careful about making comments about subject that they don't really know about. I need to walk away from this thread before my head explodes. A phobia isn't "just a fear" by the way. If that dog was actually phobic of stairs he wouldn't be "fixed" after a few weeks with "self confidence exercises".

I think raising human children is alot like owning and training an animal. Both takes alot of confidence, stablity, love and patients. Amanda, I think you are right and I agree with. I think as parents to human children we have become soft and we lack the moral ethics which is needed to in still good character. Well rounded adults, typically don't have irrational fears. As far as animals having fears... Normally its because they lack self confidence or they have seen simalar outcomes of already hard situations. All animal "phobia" can be avoid if the owner provides a well rounded lifestyle, full of love and structure. I had to trian a dog that was afraid of stairs. So we targeted the behavior problem of the owner and did several self confidence excersise, which ultimatly was fixed after just a few weeks.

 

[JLcribber]

Actually, it's not John. Humans with extreme phobias do not have the ability to just "rationalize" it. If this was the case they wouldn't use the same methods for desensitizing and counter conditioning humans and non-human animals. You can't just tell a human with a phobia to "get over it" or "rationalize" it any more than you can a non-human animal with a phobia.

Rationalize was not the right word. It's more about being able to see past the situation if someone is there to help them see past it and explain it to them because they have the ability to understand it. I should have said "reason".

Animals don't have this ability to "reason" as they are mostly reactionary.

Still apples and oranges.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

But, if someone is phobic of something, really phobic, they can't reason either. Reasoning or rationalizing doesn't help them overcome phobias or they would just overcome them instead of be tortured by them. This is why systematic desensitization is really the only humane way to help them. Even if they can think "I shouldn't be afraid of this" they still are and they can't control that. But, this is a piece that is missing for non human animals. In other words, if you were treating a human with a phobia you could sit down and discuss it and do some of the desensitization that way, in fact, talking about it might be the first step in the process. For a non human animal, of course, you can't start with that, or with showing pictures of the trigger like you could do with a human, etc.

Still, maybe not apples and oranges, maybe apples and pears

Rationalize was not the right word. It's more about being able to see past the situation if someone is there to help them see past it and explain it to them because they have the ability to understand it. I should have said "reason".

Animals don't have this ability to "reason" as they are mostly reactionary.

Still apples and oranges.

 

[JLcribber]

But, if someone is phobic of something, really phobic, they can't reason either. Reasoning or rationalizing doesn't help them overcome phobias or they would just overcome them instead of be tortured by them. This is why systematic desensitization is really the only humane way to help them. Even if they can think "I shouldn't be afraid of this" they still are and they can't control that. In other words, if you were treating a human with a phobia you could sit down and discuss it and do some of the desensitization that way, in fact, talking about it might be the first step in the process. For a non human animal, of course, you can't start with that, or with showing pictures of the trigger like you could do with a human, etc.

Still, maybe not apples and oranges, maybe apples and pears

Agreed.

 

[zoo mom]

I have a friend who has a phobia of spiders. She will run screaming from the room if she sees a little spider. She knows it is not rational but she can't stop herself. She is not afraid of other bugs just spiders.

 

[Monica]

My sister is afraid of spiders, and she's 3 years older than I am. I recall several times of her telling me about this huge spider (that really wasn't so big!) and how she needed to be saved from it... terrible as at one time we had bunk beds and she was sleeping on the top bunk - and noticed this tiny little dinky spider on the roof! That was quite the scream!

I also have an aunt who is terrified of moths... nearly had a car accident one time because there was a month flying around in her car. Butterflies and other bugs, no problem. If it's a moth, ya she freaks out! (anyone recall that horror flick where a caterpillar cocoons inside the mouth of a human?)

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More the point, I wanted people to see how stressful a situation it can be when someone is put into a situation they don't really want to be in. I'm sure the gal probably wasn't forced and had agreed to it, but you can still see her fear. Parrots don't have that understanding, yet many parrots are continually put into situations where they are screaming, biting, avoiding and doing other behaviors to show they are extremely uncomfortable with the situation - and yet, we ignore all these signs and force them to do what *we* want. We ignore the biting, the avoidance, and all the other behaviors until either one of two situations occurs; the parrot gives up and learns that they are "helpless" (learned helplessness - they have no control over a situation, and thus no choice), or the parrot becomes aggressive by deciding that *you* (the collective you) are ignoring all signs they are going to bite, and end up biting without any prior signs. That is, you never know when you'll get bitten.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Yes, yes, yes! Not just parrots either. All animals deserve the right to be heard and have their comfort levels respected and protected.

More the point, I wanted people to see how stressful a situation it can be when someone is put into a situation they don't really want to be in. I'm sure the gal probably wasn't forced and had agreed to it, but you can still see her fear. Parrots don't have that understanding, yet many parrots are continually put into situations where they are screaming, biting, avoiding and doing other behaviors to show they are extremely uncomfortable with the situation - and yet, we ignore all these signs and force them to do what *we* want. We ignore the biting, the avoidance, and all the other behaviors until either one of two situations occurs; the parrot gives up and learns that they are "helpless" (learned helplessness - they have no control over a situation, and thus no choice), or the parrot becomes aggressive by deciding that *you* (the collective you) are ignoring all signs they are going to bite, and end up biting without any prior signs. That is, you never know when you'll get bitten.

 

[Monica]

Vicki, I think you are probably one of the ones who understands this the most! And I'm sorry if the thread might have upset you a bit.

I'm hoping though that maybe it'll make someone think just that much more into the type of situations they are putting their birds in... and maybe, just maybe, they will learn how to better understand their birds and what they are trying to tell us.