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Questions about Medicine

shmog

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Hi there!

Recently after a long, long search, we were finally able to get a vet who seemed qualified to come over to our place to check out my 4-year-old parakeet (finally!! :) ) who had green pee, dry feet, and very recently had started panting randomly for no reason.

He diagnosed her with a liver and a metabolism problem. He took a test from her mouth and then gave us multiple different medicines to give her. A person at a pet store who claims to have 30+ years of expertise with birds said that these were too big doses/human/dog+cat doses and she wouldn't give these to her birds. I haven't had the best experience with her before, but this 2nd opinion has made me nervous and I'd really like to hear your guys' opinion on this. Some of them are just vitamins that she is lacking in, phew!
Keep in mind avian/bird vets are not common here at all!!

Here is what he said to give her:
- Carsil/Karsil(?): 1 tablet crushed and sprinkled over her food (with a tiny bit of water to bind it together) for 1 month
- Catosal: 0.5 ml mixed with water, put in replace for her water for 10 days
- Flora Norm: half of a pill crushed and also sprinkled over her food for 7 days
then just a honey-based ointment to soothe her feet.

Most of these are available at human pharmacies. Are these big doses for a budgie? and is it okay to give these to her at the same time?

Tests said she has Staphlococcus epidermis + aureus which apparently are common in birds and need minimal treatment (as told to us by the person working at the laboratory when picking up the tests) but one of them (according to the vet) is dangerous. The vet told us we would have to administer antibiotics (Enrofloxacin) by needle!!! for 5 days!! Is this okay to do for such a small bird? Even with all the other medications she's taking? Just catching her makes me feel so guilty and anxious!! I overthink a lot of things so I'd really REALLY like to hear what people who have had experience in similar situations think. It would be extremely helpful. I feel as if we should get a 2nd vet opinion, but maybe that is just me overthinking it.

Thank you so much & sorry this is so long!
 
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Hankmacaw

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Staphlococcus Aureus is MRSA, a very dangerous, life threatening bacteria. It is resistant to most antibiotics. You need to have a culture and sensitivity done on your bird to determine exactly which antibiotics are effective agains the strain that your bird has. Enrofloxin rarely has any effect on MRSA.

Catosan is a vitamin supplement
Carsil is a sylimarin extract and good medication for liver disease
Flora Norm is a probiotic that helps replace the normal flora in the digestive system.

No one can say whether the dosages too large or too small without knowing the concentration of the medications and the weight of your bird. Bird stores are genaerally a very poor source of information about birds and medications.

What country do you live in?
 

enigma731

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Not all staph aureus is MRSA. In fact, most isn’t. Staph aureus is an incredibly common bacterium and MRSA is a specific mutation that is drug resistant. It's true that we can’t know for sure whether enrofloxacin will work in this case without a c&s but it's a huge leap to assume this bird has MRSA.
 

shmog

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Staphlococcus Aureus is MRSA, a very dangerous, life threatening bacteria. It is resistant to most antibiotics. You need to have a culture and sensitivity done on your bird to determine exactly which antibiotics are effective agains the strain that your bird has. Enrofloxin rarely has any effect on MRSA.

Catosan is a vitamin supplement
Carsil is a sylimarin extract and good medication for liver disease
Flora Norm is a probiotic that helps replace the normal flora in the digestive system.

No one can say whether the dosages too large or too small without knowing the concentration of the medications and the weight of your bird. Bird stores are genaerally a very poor source of information about birds and medications.

What country do you live in?
Thank you for your reply! I do believe he conducted a culture and sensitivity test, the paper we received states what medicine she is sensitive/resistant to, is that what you're talking about? Its in a language I'm not too fluent in but that was what I was told it said.

I live in Georgia (not the state.)
 

shmog

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Not all staph aureus is MRSA. In fact, most isn’t. Staph aureus is an incredibly common bacterium and MRSA is a specific mutation that is drug resistant. It's true that we can’t know for sure whether enrofloxacin will work in this case without a c&s but it's a huge leap to assume this bird has MRSA.
With the test results came a graph that states what medicine shes resistive/sensitive to, I think that's a culture and sensitivity test (correct me if I'm wrong!). Has enrofloxacin been used to treat staph aureus before? and is it okay for her to take all of these meds at once?
 
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Hankmacaw

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Yes, the medications appear to be appropriate for the diagnosis. My bird takes many more meds than that on a daily basis - she is chronically ill.

Your vet sounds like he knows what he is doing.
 

shmog

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Yes, the medications appear to be appropriate for the diagnosis. My bird takes many more meds than that on a daily basis - she is chronically ill.

Your vet sounds like he knows what he is doing.
Wow!! Your bird's so brave!! Thank you for your help :)
 

enigma731

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If you had that test done then yes, I'd trust it. :) Baytril is a super commonly used med in birds and generally well tolerated. The other things are more like supplements, so they should be even more well tolerated. I agree it sounds like you've found a good vet.
 

shmog

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If you had that test done then yes, I'd trust it. :) Baytril is a super commonly used med in birds and generally well tolerated. The other things are more like supplements, so they should be even more well tolerated. I agree it sounds like you've found a good vet.
That eases my mind quite a bit!! Thank you :D
 

shmog

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Update: vet performed her first injection & put ointment on her feet! She squealed and screamed the whole, she's very stressed out from being handled and touched. She started vomiting(?) just seeds up a few minutes ago, shaking her head around. Nothing sticky binding it together just plain seeds. I'm not sure if this is from the stress or ingesting some of the ointment/the smell maybe (its pretty strong)? We are about to inform the vet. Poor baby, I feel so guilty. :(
 
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shmog

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Update: vet performed her first injection & put ointment on her feet! She squealed and screamed the whole, she's very stressed out from being handled and touched. She started vomiting(?) just seeds up a few minutes ago, shaking her head around. Nothing sticky binding it together just plain seeds. I'm not sure if this is from the stress or ingesting some of the ointment/the smell maybe (its pretty strong)? We are about to inform the vet. Poor baby, I feel so guilty. :(
Does anyone know if these could be causes for such behavior? I'm trying to stay calm and not panic but I'm really worried!!!
 
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enigma731

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Probably stress. Also sometimes antibiotics can cause nausea, just like in people.
 
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shmog

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Probably stress. Also sometimes antibiotics can cause nausea, just like in people.
Yeah, I assumed it was because of stress or antibiotics nausea but she was doing it today as well, and its been about 12 hours since her first injection.
 

Karen

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I would check back with the vet.
 

shmog

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I would check back with the vet.
Talked to my vet a couple of hours after! On the day of the injection, we not only gave her Baytril but also put ointment on her feet. He says that shes probably allergic to one of them so we are skipping the needle today and instead I have to put ointment on her feet (+ give more staph infection meds but orally this time! :unsure:) to see if that's what's making her throw up!
 

Karen

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Sounds like a good plan to determine which one may be causing the issue. Hope she's feeling better soon.
 

shmog

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Sorry for the bombardment of questions! I think I have just one more. I really suck at controlling my emotions and not getting stressed so catching my little untamed bird is very difficult for me, I've noticed I'm very hesitant. If I taught my dad how to catch her and administer the medicine myself but while he holds her, would that be alright? Or would she be calmer if it was a more familiar face?
 

enigma731

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If it helps to have a second person, absolutely do that.
 

shmog

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Small Update: I may have emphasized DO NOT SQUEEZE a bit too much to my dad, because as he was trying to move her to the other hand she managed to get loose and fly around the room!!
Fortunately, she only flew into a picture on our fireplace mantel only once!! That was her only bad landing. I have learned that she is a master curtain clinger/climber. :lol: After a couple of failed attempts, and waiting for her to calm down a little bit on the floor we managed to towel her and move her into our hand. I only put the ointment on her feet as I believe she was already stressed out enough and escaping out of my dad's hand (no time for oral medications!)

Definitely need to work on the way he held her!! He did cover her chest but put very little pressure so I hope it's okay!! She's back into her cage now with her favorite treat: lettuce. :) For being such a good birdie and for an apology, she gets to have it twice today!!

Always heard that the first time is the most traumatic. Hopefully, it gets a lot easier from here on out!! Don't think I could handle stressing her out more D: Maybe there is an alternative to the oral medication.. if not I think I'll be using all of my birthday money to get the vet to come over and do it himself! :rolleyes1:
 
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