Pros and Cons of clipping wings

[Mizzely]

@Mizzely Hi, interested if you could help describe the "clipped correctly" comment. Want to see if my Vet is giving like-minded guidance.
Thanks

Cut primaries, not secondaries or coverts.

 

[Mizzely]

Provide the link and we'll run it through google translate?

Tried that, it provides a pdf. Law referenced was SJVFS 2014:17

 

[Pipsqueak]

Do people really clip parakeeets? I have never heard of that.

 

[Pipsqueak]

Do people really clip parakeeets? I have never heard of that.

meant budgies

 

[XstatyK]

Tried that, it provides a pdf. Law referenced was SJVFS 2014:17

This particular one is not a law, but it is a regulation but even then, not finding anything regarding wing clipping / trimming

The regulations and general advice of the Norwegian Agricultural Works Agency
About conditions for keeping, breeding and selling
etc. Of animals intended for company and hobby;
SJVFS 2014: 17
Item No L 80
Outcome of pressure
On June 3, 2014
Decided on 2 June 2014.
The state's agricultural works prescribe1, based on 4, 8a, 17, 18, 20, 21a, and 29 sections
Animal welfare regulation (1988: 539), the following.
In addition, the Swedish Board of Agriculture decides on the following general advice.
Table of Contents
1 ch. Introduction ................................................. .................................................. .................... p. 3
2 ch. Rules on training and knowledge for those who trade in animals
Intended for company and hobby ............................................. ....................................... page 5
3 ch. Provisions for the obligation of the pet to sell
Animal care information .............................................. ...................................... p. 7
4 ch. Common provisions for keeping different species ........................................... ... p. 8
5 ch. Special provisions for zoo stores, animal breeding facilities
And similar facilities ............................................... .......................................... p. 11
6 ch. Special provisions for holding farm birds ............................................ p. 13
7 chap. Special provisions for keeping tamillars ............................................ .......... p. 16
8 ch. Special provisions for keeping rabbits and rodents .................................... s. 17
9 ch. Special provisions for holding snakes and lizards .......................................... p. 21
10 ch. Special provisions for keeping turtles ............................................ ..S. 24
11 ch. Special provisions for the holding of eyeglasses ..................................... s. 27
12 ch. Special provisions for the keeping of seedlings ............................................ ........ p. 28
13 chap. Special provisions for keeping fish ............................................ ............. p. 30
14 ch. Special provisions for holding letter pigeons ............................................ ...... p. 31
15 chap. Special provisions for holding minigrisar ............................................ ...... p. 33
Entry into force and transitional provisions .............................................. ........................... p. 34

 

[Mizzely]

This particular one is not a law, but it is a regulation but even then, not finding anything regarding wing clipping / trimming

The regulations and general advice of the Norwegian Agricultural Works Agency
About conditions for keeping, breeding and selling
etc. Of animals intended for company and hobby;
SJVFS 2014: 17
Item No L 80
Outcome of pressure
On June 3, 2014
Decided on 2 June 2014.
The state's agricultural works prescribe1, based on 4, 8a, 17, 18, 20, 21a, and 29 sections
Animal welfare regulation (1988: 539), the following.
In addition, the Swedish Board of Agriculture decides on the following general advice.
Table of Contents
1 ch. Introduction ................................................. .................................................. .................... p. 3
2 ch. Rules on training and knowledge for those who trade in animals
Intended for company and hobby ............................................. ....................................... page 5
3 ch. Provisions for the obligation of the pet to sell
Animal care information .............................................. ...................................... p. 7
4 ch. Common provisions for keeping different species ........................................... ... p. 8
5 ch. Special provisions for zoo stores, animal breeding facilities
And similar facilities ............................................... .......................................... p. 11
6 ch. Special provisions for holding farm birds ............................................ p. 13
7 chap. Special provisions for keeping tamillars ............................................ .......... p. 16
8 ch. Special provisions for keeping rabbits and rodents .................................... s. 17
9 ch. Special provisions for holding snakes and lizards .......................................... p. 21
10 ch. Special provisions for keeping turtles ............................................ ..S. 24
11 ch. Special provisions for the holding of eyeglasses ..................................... s. 27
12 ch. Special provisions for the keeping of seedlings ............................................ ........ p. 28
13 chap. Special provisions for keeping fish ............................................ ............. p. 30
14 ch. Special provisions for holding letter pigeons ............................................ ...... p. 31
15 chap. Special provisions for holding minigrisar ............................................ ...... p. 33
Entry into force and transitional provisions .............................................. ........................... p. 34

Well like I said, I don't speak Swedish hard to find information from government websites in a different language.

 

[XstatyK]

Well like I said, I don't speak Swedish hard to find information from government websites in a different language.

I agree, it's probably hard finding the right verbiage from a government in your own language let alone one in another language.

 

[Valkyria]

Since I'm swedish too, I did some reasearch this is staight from the departments site: För att unga fåglar ska få lära sig flyga är all vingtrimning förbjuden för fåglar mindre än ett år gammal. Även för vuxna fåglar får flygförmågan bara begränsas om de inte kan tränas att använda flygsele. I dessa fall får vingtrimning sker en gång om året, t.ex. för att möjliggöra utevistelser utan bur på sommaren
So that young birds will learn the ability to fly all trimming of wings are forbidden on birds younger than one year. Even for older birds you are only allowed to cut wings if the bird can not be trained to wear a harness and even then you are only allowed to do ot once per year. E.G you may clip your bird to allow it to be outside during summer without its cage.

 

[Valkyria]

Sällskapsfåglar - Jordbruksverket Webpage if you want to translate the whole page for yourselfs :handup:

 

[XstatyK]

So that young birds will learn the ability to fly all trimming of wings are forbidden on birds younger than one year. Even for older birds you are only allowed to cut wings if the bird can not be trained to wear a harness and even then you are only allowed to do ot once per year. E.G you may clip your bird to allow it to be outside during summer without its cage.

Thanks for the link, with Google Chrome it will translate the whole page for you with a click of the button, very handy.

That page is also regulations and rules but not quite law. But it does show what they would like you to do.
With the rules they laid out, every bird owner in the country could be outside in the summer with their trimmed wing birds on them without a leash and it would be ok as defined in those rules and regulations. If they wanted to get technical I suppose they could trim during a colder season too and say they needed to get out and it's the first time that year that they had trimmed their birds wings.

Point is, it's not illegal or law that a birds wings cannot be trimmed, at least in Sweden. Would be interesting to know if there is a country that actually does make it illegal just for curiosity sake.
Thanks for sharing that regardless

 

[Valkyria]

Thanks for the link, with Google Chrome it will translate the whole page for you with a click of the button, very handy.

That page is also regulations and rules but not quite law. But it does show what they would like you to do.
With the rules they laid out, every bird owner in the country could be outside in the summer with their trimmed wing birds on them without a leash and it would be ok as defined in those rules and regulations. If they wanted to get technical I suppose they could trim during a colder season too and say they needed to get out and it's the first time that year that they had trimmed their birds wings.

Point is, it's not illegal or law that a birds wings cannot be trimmed, at least in Sweden. Would be interesting to know if there is a country that actually does make it illegal just for curiosity sake.
Thanks for sharing that regardless

Well I haven't lived in Sweden for close to 14 years so I didn't know what the regulations were, so needed to check it out for myself. However didn't have the energy to go search for the actual law, but assume the department site is close enough :ballerina:

 

[XstatyK]

However didn't have the energy to go search for the actual law, but assume the department site is close enough

Thanks it was a great effort, but when it comes to law, close enough doesn't quite cut it unfortunately.
Either something is illegal or is Not illegal

 

[Begone]

@Eloy you are in Sweden, can you chime in about the laws? I'm certain I found them but they were in Swedish

For what I know their is several countries that have that law. And Sweden and Germany is two of them.
Yes we have a law that told us not to handfeed or clipped our birds, and we also have a law that tells how big cage they must have and that they must have outside cage time every day. And if you are working away from home you must have two parrots.
All that above is common sense for me.

If you want a non flying bird you must ask yourself if it's really a bird you want. Perhaps a hamster suits you better?
A bird is born with wings, to use them is their way to exercise. To have a clipped bird will always be a unhealthy bird, and also a very sad one.
And also when I hear people that clipped for safety I always ask myself, who's safety? Not your birds I can tell you.
My parrots live a very safe life and they are allowed to fly. Perhaps I can find safety solutions for that because we are not allowed to clip them?
I don't know. But if I can manage that, so can you.

 

[Begone]

Well like I said, I don't speak Swedish

Are you sure?

 

[Valkyria]

For what I know their is several countries that have that law. And Sweden and Germany is two of them.
Yes we have a law that told us not to handfeed or clipped our birds, and we also have a law that tells how big cage they must have and that they must have outside cage time every day. And if you are working away from home you must have two parrots.
All that above is common sense for me.

If you want a non flying bird you must ask yourself if it's really a bird you want. Perhaps a hamster suits you better?
A bird is born with wings, to use them is their way to exercise. To have a clipped bird will always be a unhealthy bird, and also a very sad one.
And also when I hear people that clipped for safety I always ask myself, who's safety? Not your birds I can tell you.
My parrots live a very safe life and they are allowed to fly. Perhaps I can find safety solutions for that because we are not allowed to clip them?
I don't know. But if I can manage that, so can you.

Jag håller med, but common sense isn't that common.

 

[BeeBop]

Please take the time to read this well written article on this subject. When a birds flight feathers are shortened by cutting they suffer emotionally, physically and health wise.
Flock Call - Clipped Wings

I *think* you were directing this towards me. I read it. But, I don't agree with it. This is one bird, and the author is trying to assume all birds act this way. Yes sad for Buttercup but BeeBop is a confident little brat . And I'm not ignoring him or just twisting his view just to agree with mine. I used to be pro-flight and you know what between flying and not flying his personality does not change at all. He doesn't look "sad" "emotionally broken" or "depressed". I'm not doubting that Buttercup didn't feel sad, but just because Buttercup is doesn't mean BeeBop is sad. Just look at my profile he's so distraught - Last post this time.

 

[Lady Jane]

There is really no point in continuing to post in this thread. As said it is a never ending debate and I think we have exhausted opinions.

 

[XstatyK]

I agree that this is a never ending debate, I was hoping that we could at least maybe find a valid source that says trimming / clipping your bird is illegal, because I was genuinely interested to find out.

But it looks like that proof is non-existent.

I'm not saying that rumor was started here in this thread, I just mean in general. I've read claims on other forums about people saying it is illegal, but have not seen one valid source of proof yet.
I believe that some people have mistaken the regulations and rules as law and believed it to be an illegal action, and that's how that rumor got started.

As the link posted by Valkyria clearly shows that it's not illegal in Sweden, even the regulations says its permitted.
So it looks like theres at least one country's illegality on trimming debunked.

 

[BeeBop]

For the sake of the curiosity of others among other things - I googled whether or not there is a law of not clipping in Germany. I did not find anything outright stating that it was. Here's the interesting part - which some may have confused.
" Clipping" sometimes regards a practice that IS illegal of cutting of part of a birds actual wing. It is more proper to use the term trimming. But, anyways there is nothing that states clipping a bird's wing FEATHERS is illegal in Germany. If you have proof that TRIMMING is illegal I would like to see a link because my interest is peaked. If you don't have a link word of mouth will not prove it to me - just saying. It's really weird reasoning that they would make wing TRIMMING illegal because the feathers do grow back out.

 

[XstatyK]

If you have proof that TRIMMING is illegal I would like to see a link because my interest is peaked. If you don't have a link word of mouth will not prove it to me - just saying. It's really weird reasoning that they would make wing TRIMMING illegal because the feathers do grow back out.

I agree 100% with that, word of mouth on a LAW that states something is illegal should have a valid source of documentation to prove it, otherwise it's just hearsay.