Possible Heavy Metal Poisoning

[chompie_puppy]

The Heavy Metal Poisoning (HMP) is in regards to Dende, my Scaly-breasted Lorikeet.

He has always been slightly clumsy since I got him. It has perhaps gotten slightly worse as the months progressed. I've now had him for 13 months.

He does not fall off his perches. Instead his clumsiness has more to do with him quite often misjudging a landing, stumbling while walking, tripping over objects easily, etc.

He is still quite active and playful. His appetite has not deteriorated and he weighs a healthy 85g (which is actually more on the overweight side of the scale).

However, three weeks ago he vomited twice (which was the first sign of illness I could see in him) and started sneezing a little more than normal. I took him to my avian vet straight away and they found a lot of bad bacteria in his crop. He had 70-80% bad bacteria. A normal amount is only 4-5%.

We discussed hygiene as a possible cause for this. I change newspapers in the cage every day. Fresh food and wet mix only stay in the cage for a few hours. I use SS cups. Water gets changed at night and in the morning. So bad hygiene is likely not the cause.

He was put on Baytril for a week. I did not see him vomit again after that. So we gave him another week to recover. I booked a re-check for him at my avian vet this Tuesday.

The amount of bad bacteria in his crop was smaller than before. He now had about 50% bad bacteria. Still a very high number.

So he was given a Doxycycline injection in case the remaining bad bacteria was just resistant to the Baytril. I monitored him closely. My avian vet wanted him back there ASAP if there was no improvement in his clumsiness, sneezing and vomiting by Friday.

There was no noticeable imrovement and he vomited once more. So he went back to the vet on Friday for some blood work. I was sent home with Calsenate oral medicine just in case HMP is the cause (I live an hour away from my avian vet and they didn't want me to make a trip just to pick up medicine).

The blood work didn't show anything unusual. Since the results were only in on Friday night, and the vets are closed over the weekend, my avian vet advised me to start using the Calsenate treatment on Dende just in case. HMP can easily cause secondary infections which could explain the high amount of bacteria in his crop. He's having a re-check done next week again by my avian vet.

I've checked everything I can think of as a possible cause for HMP.

This was Dende's original cage when I rescued him. He had a bacterial infection back then which we thought we treated successfully. Could the rust have stayed in his system for 13 months?

I've removed toys in his cage that I am not 100% sure of being SS.

I'm going to change the brand of shampoo I use because the current brand I have lists Zinc as a key ingredient. Sometimes Dende likes to "preen" my hair.

I'm placing a large order for SS coop cups and water bowls for the fids tomorrow because I cannot be 100% sure that the current ones they have are truly SS (it came in unmarked boxes from China).

I'm not allowing him to play on the side tables anymore (they have a metal frame).

I'm very worried about him. Do you guys know if this even sounds like he has Heavy Metal Poisoning? Anything else I could suggest to the vet that we could try to diagnose him?

I also just want to say that I'll be updating about the rescue Budgies soon and that I'm sorry for not keeping you guys updated earlier. These last two weeks have been very... challenging... in regards to my flock's health. I'll also be replying to the Freya's Biopsy Results thread a little later. I think I know what path I want to take with her treatment, but it is difficult for me to even look at that thread at the moment.

 

[Juhi882]

Oh Kelsey you are going thru so much at a time!!
I'm sooo sorry
you and your flock are in my prayers.
Hope this bad time passes soon

 

[atvchick95]

that cage is more for Rabbits, Gerbils and the such Definitely galvanized metal

was that his cage he lived in? or just transported in?

if he lived in it, I'd bet he has Metal poisoning Specially since Lories Love to climb!

did the tests show metal poisoning? has he gotten any X rays? I recall reading *but can't remember where or what kind of bird it was * that had X rays done and it showed metal flakes in their crop and it was poisoning them

 

[Jeddy]

Sorry Kelsey that you are having to deal with this also. That was a disgusting cage he was in when you first got him. Thank God he is in your care. It sounds like you are on top of it. Keeping you in my thoughts.

 

[Billie Faye]

Many
I am giving you some sites to read on HMP...hope this help and ideas of where it might come from you haven't thought about:
Heavy Metal Poisoning
Heavy Metals are Poisonous to Birds
http://www.holisticbird.org/pages/nmetals.htm
Testing for Zinc in Parrot Toys
Winged Wisdom Magazine. The A - Zinc of Zinc Poisoning in Birds
Winged Wisdom Pet Bird Magazine - Lead Toxicosis - Sources, Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment
Zinc and its Danger to Parrots
I know there are a lot of sites but GOOD information in each one!!!!!!

 

[Renae]

I don't know much about HMP, but I hope it's not. You're really not having much luck, and for everything you're doing at the moment, bad luck is the last thing you don't need! will be keeping you both in my thoughts, hopefully the next vet visit is better.

 

[atvchick95]

oh and I forgot to mention if he really enjoys playing on the side tables, you could always use a sheet/towel or pillow case(depending on how big it is) to cover the table up so he can still play on it w/out being able to touch any metal on it.

and is the metal on your tables real?

I had some (well still have 1 my son uses it) Square side tables, the "table" part is glass but going around is "metal" well when the one table fell apart, i found out the Metal wasn't metal at all it was like a sticker over top of a bendable material it peeled right off

 

[chompie_puppy]

Thank you all for the quick response!

I'll start reading those links straight away BF! Thank you!

Do any of you know if the metal could stay in his system for as long as 13 months? If it can then his original cage could definitely be a possible cause.

Kelli, here is a link to the thread explaining Dende's previous living conditions if you are interested: http://forums.avianavenue.com/lorikeet-lane/10760-baby-green-parrot.html

That "cage" is actually a cat carrier (for vet visits and such) but it was Dende's permanent cage in his old home.

I think the blood work was just to show if he had proper organ function and if he was fighting any other infections. I'm not sure, I'll have to check on Monday. I know it wasn't specifically for HMP.

We didn't do an X-ray. That might be the next step if he doesn't improve dramatically with the Calsenate.

I think the biggest worry I have is that we aren't 100% sure it is HMP at all! I suppose it could be anything.

 

[waterfaller1]

Hugs to you & positive thoughts for Dende

 

[atvchick95]

Thank you all for the quick response!

I'll start reading those links straight away BF! Thank you!

Do any of you know if the metal could stay in his system for as long as 13 months? If it can then his original cage could definitely be a possible cause.

Kelli, here is a link to the thread explaining Dende's previous living conditions if you are interested: http://forums.avianavenue.com/lorikeet-lane/10760-baby-green-parrot.html

That "cage" is actually a cat carrier (for vet visits and such) but it was Dende's permanent cage in his old home.

I think the blood work was just to show if he had proper organ function and if he was fighting any other infections. I'm not sure, I'll have to check on Monday. I know it wasn't specifically for HMP.

We didn't do an X-ray. That might be the next step if he doesn't improve dramatically with the Calsenate.

I'll go read that thread Some how I missed it

I sure hope its not Metal Poisoning but i'm pretty sure it can stay in their system for a long time I know it takes a long time to build up or that is how I understand it from reading on it.

and since that was his all the time cage he was screwed from the start! since it's not bird safe metal, then add the rust into it and make it even worse

but remember what your vet told you about Freya , NO reason to Stress BEFORE you know the actual issues

I know that is a lot easier said than done.

 

[Bokkapooh]

I found this link to be extremely helpful:

Heavy Metal Poisoning in Birds: Symptoms and treatment as well as prevention

This one claims you can use Cilantro to get the heavy metals out of the system:

http://www.relfe.com/removing_heavy_metal_toxicity.html

I sure hope its not HMP

 

[chompie_puppy]

Thank you all so much!

I'm taking Dende back for another checkup tomorrow afternoon. I'll see what the vet suggests we should do.

He still has a very healthy appetite, which I think is always a good thing! ...Right...?

His balance seems to actually have improved very slightly with the HMP medicine! I'm becoming hopeful that we can get him better soon.

I bought SS wire (Grade 304) to replace any wire in their toys I'm sceptical about. What does Grade 304 mean? Is it bird safe?

 

[MollyMouse]

I'm so sorry you are having such a sad time at the moment with all that's going on. Just take some time out for yourself so you don't get run down Kelsey. Sending prayers out for Dende that you can find a definate cause

 

[Renae]

That's definitely a good thing!

I hope the HMP medicine continues to help him improve, I'll be keeping him in my thoughts.

 

[birdlady]

Yes, the metal can stay in their system that long. And you need to have specific tests for lead and zinc. I went through this with Nani when it turns out she had zinc poisoning. She needed injections twice a day for five days. She is now better. You should ask your vet about these specific blood tests.

 

[jmfleish]

Actually, with HMP, if they haven't actually ingested a metal piece that is sitting in their body, if you remove the metal from their environment, the HMP will clear up on its own.

The problem that you have at this point is that you don't even know that you are dealing with HMP. The very first thing I would do is rule it out with a blood test. While that might not tell you a whole lot because, as I found, every bird deals with heavy metals differently (my 'too has a naturally high zinc level at 3.9 ppm where 2.5 ppm is considered normal high in most 'toos), at least it will give you a starting point. If the reading is 2.0 or lower for zinc (don't know what the other readings should be), then you probably aren't dealing with zinc poisoning. Lead should show up as zero or you have a problem and there are other heavy metals too but those are the first two I'd be the most worried about.

If the blood test comes back elevated, the next thing is a radiograph to see whether or not there is an actual piece of metal in the bird somewhere. If there is, it will light up like a beacon on an x-ray. If not, then your bird is ingesting it from something in its environment and the very first thing I think of when you say Lory or Lorikeet is their nectar. Here is an article you absolutely must read if you are feeding commercial nectar and you really think you might be dealing with HMP.

The Shyne Foundation

 

[Daisy's Mom]

I just read Dende's story... I must have somehow missed it.. All I can say is thank goodness you have him now!! I shutter to think what would have happen to him in his first home. And that cage his was originally in-EWWWWWWWW. Sending over prayers that everything goes ok at the vets..

 

[crazyanimal]

You need to have blood work or xray to test specifically for metal toxicity. I had a cherry head who vomitted one morning and two days later she was gone. She was xrayed and found to have metal in her abdomen. Before we could treat her she was having seizures and I lost her. The metal can be quick or last longer as said above. An xray would rule out any metal in the body.

 

[JLcribber]

Grade 304 is the most common type of stainless steel around. They use it in kitchens and dish manufacturing. Perfectly safe.

 

[chompie_puppy]

Thank you all so much for the help!

Oh my goodness, that story scared me so much Jen! I'm going to go buy a magnet and test their food.

I'll ask my avian vet about doing an X-ray and lead and zinc blood tests on Dende tomorrow afternoon.

Thank you for the SS info John! That's really good to know! I already started replacing the wire in their swings and toys with the SS wire I bought. I really need to get some better tools. I spent about 30 minutes just trying to cut the wire into the correct lengths I needed.