Not exactly my best view but.....

[Hrtofau2]

I want to appolgise for the not so glorous view of me. When he changed his behavior to be very lovey I wanted to get a video of it. I am miss matched because I changed to shirt with sleeves when I started working with him on trying to step up to the shoulder. He seems to respond better to sleeves then he does bare arms. (I was wearing a tank top)

Ok here is some examples of Ducky behavior. Ducky is not afraid of hands ~ as you can see from the video. I can touch him all over, even extend out a wing and he is fine. Calm, non biting. Now granted this isnt a "all the time" behavior. Sometimes he doesn't want to be messed with and we are respecting that. But you can clearly see that he is not "upset" by hands. I can walk up to him as he is grooming (I should say step up, I step up on a stool to get up to the top of his cage) and he lets me touch his wings/chest as he grooms his tail/wing feathers. He is not upset by the hands.

However hands coming towards him from the under side (as if to ask for a step up) and you get bit/scared behaviors from him. You will note i the video I offered a shoulder and he was clearly not happy with that. Had I pushed the issue I would have been met with bites. He goes to that corner does the wing flap squawk thing to "signal" done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox0WvF-PLh4

For my "end goal" with Ducky I wish to be able to handle him to take him from place to place. From Play stand to cage, or to the bathroom for a shower. Thats my "small" goal for him. I would love to be able to have him comfortable enough eventually to trust me enough to go places with him ~ like outside for walks. But thats a "big" goal.

 

[Anne & Gang]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww somebirdie loves his mama.

 

[lupe]

I saw the video and I really and truly think you are doing a fabulous job Summer.
It's my humble opionion that when Ducky got his fill of lovies ...he was ready for
a break. I dont see why you should believe he has an issue with shoulders.
At this point in time, I wouldnt trust HIM on your shoulder anyway.
He showed real trust in you letting you pet him on top of his body, usually too's
when they feel an object hovering over there head. It's in there defense mechanism.
He is a sweet, sweet boyBTW: just work on step up...after he is comfy
with that then you can most likely take him from place to place in the house.

 

[Hrtofau2]

The problem is getting him to the step up point. It is always always met with fear and aggression. I have tried arm, I have tried using a rope perch. All aggression and fear. The rope perch has been on his cage for nearly a month now..he still walks AROUND it. Even when no one is around. At this point the only thing he will occasionally go to is the shoulder. And while I agree I would much prefer him step to an arm/hand he just wont do it at this point. The biggest motivator to trying to get him to be able to be moved is baths..he hates spray bottles, he hates large dishes, and he was leary, but ok with the shower when I gave him one a few weeks ago. He is molting pretty bad, pins everywhere but I have no way to help him ease that right now.

I know I have plenty of time to work with Ducky, and eventually hopefully being able to be handled will come. I just want to show some of the behavior he is showing so that you guys can see its not the hands that he is afraid of. Honestly, he makes his body language very easy to read (to me anyway). Very obvious "Im done" signs and I try not to push him.

Oh...and another reason I would like him to be able to be moved....he has started flock calling for me when I am out of sight.....

 

[Wayne361]

Is he target trained? If not I would proceed with training him this first. Once target trained, target him on/off hand till he gets used to being on your hand. It is a start and I think would limit the agression/fear associated with stepping up onto your hand. I would progress with longer periods of time on your hand till he is comfortable and no longer sees your hand as a threat/ffear.

Hope this helps,

Wayne

 

[Bokkapooh]

Have you the Parrot Problem Solver by Barbara Heidenreich? If you're on FB follpw her She does amazing work. Maybe message her for tips.

From my experience you want to train him to allow/like/tolerate toe touching. Then grabbing/holding. To stepping up. Break the behavior down that you want to train him. Break it down into tiny steps.

I think you're doing good I'm glad Ducky went to a home that loves him enough to be online and look for answers and help

 

[Bokkapooh]

Have you the Parrot Problem Solver by Barbara Heidenreich? If you're on FB follpw her She does amazing work. Maybe message her for tips.

From my experience you want to train him to allow/like/tolerate toe touching. Then grabbing/holding. To stepping up. Break the behavior down that you want to train him. Break it down into tiny steps.

I think you're doing good I'm glad Ducky went to a home that loves him enough to be online and look for answers and help

 

[brilywi]

How are you moving him if he's not stepping up/using a rope perch? A stick perch, I'm assuming?

Overall, you seem to have the right approach here. Gain his trust with as much touching as you can get away with and then use highly valued treats to lure him over and onto your hand/arm. Based on some of your other threads, it seems like you've only just recently gotten him, and I'm wondering if he may not be completely ready to trust you as a perch yet. A lot of cockatoos I've met have seemed to be more comfortable with being pet and cuddled, but a lot more wary of stepping up until they get to know you.

There was one goffins I knew that would let me pet her and touch her wherever, but once I got her to step up, she'd either immediately step back down or have a death grip while I held her. The death grip is something I'm very familiar with. I work in an interactive aviary at a zoo with lots of cockatiels and other small birds (all flighted) that are, unfortunately, not strangers to being unseated from hands and arms. A lot of our birds, if they view you as an unsafe perch for whatever reason, and think you are about to give them a "send off," will hold on with their feet for dear life. All of our cockatiels will step up and hold on normally for all of the keepers (as we don't give them a send off unless we're in an emergency situation and trying to get to another bird) and don't use any death grips, but will not always step up for our guests.

I would try seeing if he would step up onto a towel/covered arm and see if he's less afraid that way. A towel or clothed arm generally has better traction for birds than a bare arm, because the fibers provide something for their nails to grip (its the same idea as a tree; they can climb vertically up a tree because it has bark for them to hold on to) and he might feel more secure that way.

I don't know how much you know about his previous owner (or if there was one!) and his past, but it sounds to me a lot like he had a bad and unceremonious unseating from someones arm at one point that resulted in a really bad memory and association with being perched on hands/arms.

Another thing you could try and work with him on is manipulating and petting his toes through the bars of his cage and seeing if you can work him up to holding your hand/finger in one foot and get him used to the idea of holding on to you and just gaining confidence with the situation in general.

 

[Hrtofau2]

How are you moving him if he's not stepping up/using a rope perch? A stick perch, I'm assuming?

Overall, you seem to have the right approach here. Gain his trust with as much touching as you can get away with and then use highly valued treats to lure him over and onto your hand/arm. Based on some of your other threads, it seems like you've only just recently gotten him, and I'm wondering if he may not be completely ready to trust you as a perch yet. A lot of cockatoos I've met have seemed to be more comfortable with being pet and cuddled, but a lot more wary of stepping up until they get to know you.

There was one goffins I knew that would let me pet her and touch her wherever, but once I got her to step up, she'd either immediately step back down or have a death grip while I held her. The death grip is something I'm very familiar with. I work in an interactive aviary at a zoo with lots of cockatiels and other small birds (all flighted) that are, unfortunately, not strangers to being unseated from hands and arms. A lot of our birds, if they view you as an unsafe perch for whatever reason, and think you are about to give them a "send off," will hold on with their feet for dear life. All of our cockatiels will step up and hold on normally for all of the keepers (as we don't give them a send off unless we're in an emergency situation and trying to get to another bird) and don't use any death grips, but will not always step up for our guests.

I would try seeing if he would step up onto a towel/covered arm and see if he's less afraid that way. A towel or clothed arm generally has better traction for birds than a bare arm, because the fibers provide something for their nails to grip (its the same idea as a tree; they can climb vertically up a tree because it has bark for them to hold on to) and he might feel more secure that way.

I don't know how much you know about his previous owner (or if there was one!) and his past, but it sounds to me a lot like he had a bad and unceremonious unseating from someones arm at one point that resulted in a really bad memory and association with being perched on hands/arms.

Another thing you could try and work with him on is manipulating and petting his toes through the bars of his cage and seeing if you can work him up to holding your hand/finger in one foot and get him used to the idea of holding on to you and just gaining confidence with the situation in general.

I am not moving him. That is the problem. The few times that we have been able to move him "willingly" he has gone for our shoulder. But those are few and far between.

Ducky totally freaks with anything in our hands that is not very small. Towels are the devil to him. What little I do know of Ducky's past is that 2 homes ago, the people would throw a towel over him to handle him at all. Even Folding towels in the living room and Ducky quivers and shakes....towels are totally out for anything. Its a beast to battle in the far far future. He acts the same way towards anything that extends my arm. Perches, (Rope or dowel), brooms ~ he freaks out. I have had a rope perch that I Have zip tied together to try and use as a step up tool. He freaks. Figured I would place it at the top of his cage (where he hangs out a lot) so he could get used to it. He walks around it...even when there is no one nearby. He has been doing so for nearly month...

We have had Ducky only a short amount of time. Just shy of a month actually. (The rope perch was purchased within 24 hours of us getting him.) We have been working on the trust thing from day one. We have had a bit of a set back since his vet visit (He has slight scissor beak and was in dire need of a beak trim.) He has been a lot less willing to come to us since then. Dave (Dadof5) had to towel him to get him into his carrier.

I tend to agree that he has security issues when it comes to stepping up. I am going to assume that he was probably dropped repeatedly. We are allowing him to be flighted in hopes that will build his confidence and not be so scared of falling.

 

[macawpower58]

For only a month, you're doing fabulously. I see great trust being built, no fears or nervousness in him. I'd keep on doing just what you are. Go slow and easy. Can he reach a chair, one that say you read in? I'd bet if so, he'd come down eventually and be crawling all over you. I know me sitting down is an invite for Goffin attention whether I want it or not.

I'd not worry about moving him for now, one day he'll do what you're trying so hard to do. He'll climb onto your arm/hand all by himself.

 

[Hrtofau2]

For only a month, you're doing fabulously. I see great trust being built, no fears or nervousness in him. I'd keep on doing just what you are. Go slow and easy. Can he reach a chair, one that say you read in? I'd bet if so, he'd come down eventually and be crawling all over you. I know me sitting down is an invite for Goffin attention whether I want it or not.

I'd not worry about moving him for now, one day he'll do what you're trying so hard to do. He'll climb onto your arm/hand all by himself.

Sadly no he can not. We have created a "bridge" of chairs for him to use. (They are soft chairs our kids use to watch TV in) but the twins knocked one over and it scared him. He wont go near them now. Dave and I have to finish our Cargo net, so maybe we will figure some way of using that to allow him access to our sitting spot...

 

[Greycloud]

Summer, you are doing pretty well. Just one basic warning for you. Do not pet down his back and under his wings. The male testes in parrots lie close to the surface under the wings. As you pet down his back and under the wings you are applying pressure to the testes which hormonally stimulates him. In the vid he acts calm while you do this. It is because, Boy does that feel good!
As you went to offer your shoulder I don't think he realized you were doing so. He was busy climbing. THen you climbed up to his level on top his cage at which point we see some fear as well has behavior showing he does not want you close. I believe he climbed to the top because he had reached his limit with physical contact on the boing. You following him up was a form of flooding to him. To much attention so to speak.
I would limit his head scritches to just about a minute to a minute and a half for now. After that is when he climbed away. So after about a minute I would just stop petting him, praise him very well and if he will take a very yummy treat, ie; popcorn, a nut, etc. give it to him and walk away. You walking away must occur before he turns away from you.
The reason behind this is, he will come to realize you are not going to push him to his limits and he will come to realize he can trust you. Let him set the limits. I would work on this for a while before worrying about stepping up.
As Lupe said, no shoulders right now. He cannot be trusted. Also, you will need to back off when he chews on your clothes. This is a form of control for him. He should not be allowed. I would just say, "No" and take a step back. When you step forward again if he does not start to chew, praise him. You can also offer him a small toy that should be placed slowly in front of him instead of your shirt. If he touches or grabs the toy, praise him.
I know this is a lot to comprehend. I hope it helps some.

 

[Hrtofau2]

Sadly no he can not. We have created a "bridge" of chairs for him to use. (They are soft chairs our kids use to watch TV in) but the twins knocked one over and it scared him. He wont go near them now. Dave and I have to finish our Cargo net, so maybe we will figure some way of using that to allow him access to our sitting spot...

Today we spent the day rearranging our living room. ( Have I mentioned that I Have the most amazing hubby?) Its a kind of odd set up ~ but we managed to make it so Ducky is able to come and join us if he so chooses. This evening? Ducky came close enough for me to give him scritches and snag a pepper before he went on his merry way. This I think will help tons. Thank you for the suggestion Becky...Hopefully this will help build the trust!

 

[macawpower58]

Next you'll be finding ways to 'block' that inquisitive little Too! Be very careful what you ask for!

My little Goffin thinks my daughters are perches. My kids aren't too keen on that though.

 

[Hrtofau2]

Next you'll be finding ways to 'block' that inquisitive little Too! Be very careful what you ask for!

My little Goffin thinks my daughters are perches. My kids aren't too keen on that though.

My kids would love it! Actually that has become a "fight" here. The kids want soo bad to interact with him/pet him. And he seems to truly like the children ~ especially my girls. However we are being very cautious ~ If we cant handle Ducky our kids sure are not gonna! So there is a "hands off" policy. At this time we are not even allowing them to give him treats. They can (and do!) stand at a distance and talk to him or "Dance" with him but are not allowed any physical contact/cage/toys contact. (I wont let them open/close cage door or go within touching distance.) Its hard on them ~ matter of fact they younger kids have decided that they are gonna save all their money and buy the GCC at our local Petco. Because they want a bird that "likes" them.