Need to surrender Goffin. Advice needed

[Dolly]

Mango was three years old when I adopted him. He is now 20 years old and is wonderful with me and I love him very much. On occasion I have been bitten, only once badly when I prevented him from biting my husband, but extremely rarely. He is healthy, behaves well when with me, loves being petted and does cute tricks but he attacks my husband, who does not play with or pet him but will care for Mango if I am away (cover/feed etc.) My husband is nice to Mango but if given an opportunity (often when my attention is diverted or I leave the room briefly), Mango will quickly rush to bite him, usually the feet. Vince is able to have Mango step up and move him from cage to cage without biting if I am away. Vince has sustained three bad bites, two to the ear and these were sneak attacks. Each time I considered surrendering him but I was so upset we just decided to make some changes to our routine with him and for the most part, it worked. Once I retired, Mango would be with me good portions of the day and just hang around on his varied perch areas. When Vince came home in the evening, it was cage time. Once my husband retired, I was not able to have Mango out of the cage as often during the day, though I make time for him morning, afternoon and evening for briefer social/play time. If I go outside on the deck with Mango and Vince wants to join me, Mango ends up having to go in because he just will not understand that he cannot sit on Vince's leg or arm. Mango cannot be trusted. He loves my two adult daughters and my sisters and is extremely gentle with them but has bitten their husbands (not often and not badly) Today, I was taking Mango out to trim his nails (which he does not like but if I have it done by the vet, he will get so upset he seizures) and he quickly jumped to the floor (he is wing clipped) and bit Vince's toe, while Vince was just sitting reading. My husband was furious and I don't blame him.

Another life change has occurred. Grandchildren. One a few months old and another on the way. I will be doing some babysitting and I do know that Mango cannot be near the children. I will be more often away from home and have less time to spend with him. I do not trust Mango out of the cage around children through he enjoys them from inside his cage.

I need you to know, Mango has three cages in different parts of the home. He enjoys each of them different times of the day and this helps with screaming which he does not do when I am home. If I leave the house and it is just Vince and Mango, Mango will scream so he goes to his upstairs cage.

I feel that I need to surrender Mango and I am broken hearted for myself and him. I wanted to go the distance with Mango and I am 66 now so I of course worry about my life expectancy vs. his. He is even in our will with surrender and money to go to the Lonely Grey Rescue, who I have called twice before and then backed out of doing a surrender. I know you might not understand this but I sometimes feel it would be better to euthanize Mango rather than have him go to a home, get aggressive and be mistreated or ignored and neglected. I would appreciate advice but I must say that for the first time, I am seriously considering a surrender and really need a good place. I live in the Philadelphia area. The only other choice for Mango staying with me is more cage time with lots of toys and never being out of the cage with other people in the room under any circumstances. Thoughts appreciated.

 

[macawpower58]

You and I and 1000's of other parrot owners are asking these same questions.
IMO Mango would be better with less out of cage time, kept away from visitors, but still able to stay in the home he knows and loves.
I also am about your age with a 25 year old Goffin I raised. I too wonder what will happen when I die. She will still be a young bird.
I know I'll keep her as long as physically possible, as here she's safe and loved.
Rehoming IMO is a drastic step. Changing up her routine and spaces is better if you ask me.
You will have no knowledge of what happens to her afterwards, and my fear is the stories I hear of the cycle of rehomed birds.
Some are very lucky, the majority will never have a home like yours, where they will stay long term, loved and cared for.

I'm sorry I don't have better news. My first worry is Mango.
Mango will be better with you, even with the things you mentioning happening.

About your grandchildren.
I also have a macaw and amazon.
My grandchildren were born when my birds were already adults so have known them their whole lives.
They won't even get near the cages.
You'd have to drag them kicking and screaming before a finger ever found it's way between the bars.

Kids do learn and can exist peacefully with large birds.
Babies and toddlers just have to be carefully monitored.
Mine are now over 6 years of age.

 

[Monica]

My suggestion would be to reach out to the animal trainers and behaviorists. People such as Barbara Heidenreich, Pamela Clark, Lara Joseph, Susan Friedman, etc. I have links to some of their pages here.

Free Training Resources

Someone recently told me that there was only one trainer on the internet that had free training advice. This is, quite simply, false. This “trainer” they spoke of is an amateur that has taken advice from salesmen who market themselves as bird trainers. Not to say that they don't enjoy helping...

forums.avianavenue.com

Avoid Bird Tricks and Parrot Whisperer.

 

[dollfish]

With all respect to your feelings, I would like to say that you seem to have been a very dedicated friend to Mango. A new home may not necessarily provide more cage time to your bird. Good luck on your search to find a good home if that ends up being your final decision.

 

[dollfish]

My suggestion would be to reach out to the animal trainers and behaviorists. People such as Barbara Heidenreich, Pamela Clark, Lara Joseph, Susan Friedman, etc. I have links to some of their pages here.

Free Training Resources

Someone recently told me that there was only one trainer on the internet that had free training advice. This is, quite simply, false. This “trainer” they spoke of is an amateur that has taken advice from salesmen who market themselves as bird trainers. Not to say that they don't enjoy helping...

forums.avianavenue.com

Avoid Bird Tricks and Parrot Whisperer.

Why do you suggest avoiding Birdtricks? Just out of curiousity because I know they are popular.

 

[Mizzely]

Why do you suggest avoiding Birdtricks? Just out of curiousity because I know they are popular.

Opinions on BirdTricks?

I had no idea where to post this thread so I'm just going to put it down here. I've noticed the Bird-tricks website and videos a couple of times now, and I'm interested to see what you guys think of them. Particularly there training methods, are they good for smaller birds? Are there videos...

forums.avianavenue.com

 

[dollfish]

With all respect to your feelings, I would like to say that you seem to have been a very dedicated friend to Mango. A new home may not necessarily provide more cage time to your bird. Good luck on your search to find a good home if that ends up being your final decision.

I meant *less cage time.

 

[Monica]

BirdTricks main sales person is gone now... apparently off training dogs instead of parrots?

Still, if you want professional advice, I would recommend seeking out professional trainers and behaviorists.

 

[Monaco]

I've been thinking about these things too, and hoping I meet someone who can be a godparent eventually. I won't ever have your challenges, but life has a way of laughing at our visions for it. I agree with @macawpower58 and @Monica about some behavior modification and keeping her in your home. Keep looking for a good next home, too, just in case.

 

[finchly]

We always imagine that a rehome automatically means a home not as good as ours - but that’s not necessarily true. It could be a truly great home where Mango would thrive and flourish. Maybe a place where he could be out-of-cage a LOT.
It’s ultimately up to you. But feeling bad all the time for your bird is stressful for you.

 

[JLcribber]

As Becky said. We’ve all asked ourselves these same questions. The best place for Mango is with you no matter the circumstances because he is family.

Yes he may need to a more secure environment that allows the rest of your life to continue. It does not have to be inside that cage. It doesn’t even have to be a whole room. You “can” section off some kind of area in your home where he can have an environment (that includes his cage) and a routine that does not involve the rest of the family. You already kind of make this time/routine for him. You spend time with him in the morning and at the end of the day and he will adapt to the routine. That will be the new normal.

 

[sunnysmom]

Hi. I am on my phone and can't really type a long answer but will when I am on my computer. I too have a male goffin who has bitten my fiance badly. I can tell you the things I have done if you're interested. I am sorry you are going through this. I understand how hard it is.

 

[Gokha]

I wanna stick around and see @sunnysmom advice. I’m having somewhat a similar situation with supposedly, My, Galah -Momo. But turned out she just adores my husband, more like obsessed with him. If he’s around, she has to be ON him most of the times, bites if he doesn’t pay attention. Due to this it’s getting impossible for me to handle/train her when he’s around. Yesterday was the first time she flight-attacked me and bit my eyebrow (still swollen) because I was holding the grapes and she thought I wouldn’t share If the husband is not home, it’s manageable and biting becomes rare. Because she goes crazy over my husband and attacks everyone (even him), including my two other birds, she gets to spend much less out of cage than Zazu and Walad and I feel bad for her and would like to improve her behavior if that’s possible

 

[JLcribber]

I wanna stick around and see @sunnysmom advice. I’m having somewhat a similar situation with supposedly, My, Galah -Momo. But turned out she just adores my husband, more like obsessed with him. If he’s around, she has to be ON him most of the times, bites if he doesn’t pay attention. Due to this it’s getting impossible for me to handle/train her when he’s around. Yesterday was the first time she flight-attacked me and bit my eyebrow (still swollen) because I was holding the grapes and she thought I wouldn’t share If the husband is not home, it’s manageable and biting becomes rare. Because she goes crazy over my husband and attacks everyone (even him), including my two other birds, she gets to spend much less out of cage than Zazu and Walad and I feel bad for her and would like to improve her behavior if that’s possible

You would benefit greatly from absorbing the information in this article and applying some of its principles

Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine

 

[ali_and_birdie]

The only other choice for Mango staying with me is more cage time with lots of toys and never being out of the cage with other people in the room under any circumstances. Thoughts appreciated.

I feel like this option is much better than re-homing. He is bonded to you, so moving homes, even if that means he gets lots of out-of-cage time (which is not guaranteed), will be extremely stressful for him. It's wonderful that you already have 3 different cages for him, so if you can continue to rotate him between them, that will help with enrichment. You also mentioned giving him lots of toys, which sounds like a great idea. You can also supplement the three cages with a travel cage -- for example, when I'm cooking I'll sometimes bring my caique into the kitchen with me in her travel cage, so she can be with me, but she's not getting into trouble/being exposed to potential hazards.

I also assume that, if you're retired, you may be able to find at least an hour a day when he can be out of the cage with you? I imagine that you and your husband don't always have to be in the same room --is there a time of day when you can go upstairs for an hour, without your husband, and have that be Mango's out-of-cage playtime? You can also take Mango out if your husband is traveling, running errands, spending time on the deck, showering, etc.

 

[sunnysmom]

First, please don't think about euthanizing him. There are options. I think people with cockatoos understand what you're going through. I think sometimes if you don't have bird people friends it can be over-whelming because other people don't understand. So, I'm glad you found this forum. The article that @JLcribber posted is a great start and explains behavior. I know everyone is urging you to keep him but you know what you can handle. And I also understand what it's like to have a significant other who is not happy with the bird situation. It makes things stressful.

A little about my bird, Elvis. I adopted him 3 years ago. We don't know his age but he's wild caught. So he's at least 28. We don't know much about the first 22 or so years of his life. But in the last few, he was in multiple places until he came to live with me. (I actually fostered him before adopting him.) At first he loved my fiance more than me. He actually still might- I'm not sure. But initially the fiance could handle him better than me. Looking back, we made mistakes. The fiance would get home from work about 3 hours before me and would let Elvis out but then get tired and lay on the couch with Elvis. I think this made him hormonal/nesty. And then as Elvis became more secure in our house (we had a long honeymoon period), I think he started craving attention from the fiance that he wasn't getting. Just letting Elvis out isn't enough. Again, all hindsight. So, Elvis started nipping at his fingers to get his attention. Eventually, the nipping turned to bites, including some face attacks.

I went through a really rough patch mentally trying to figure out what to do and tried to read up on things, etc. But eventually I realized that my fiance wasn't going to put in the time and effort to change his relationship with Elvis. So, I had to make the changes. One of them is Elvis is never out alone with the fiance, which breaks my heart a little. I made a schedule where Elvis is out when the fiance isn't around. In the mornings, I get up early and let Elvis out and we play before I go to work. He goes back in his cage until I get home from work. Then, after dinner, I either take Elvis upstairs to play or the fiance goes upstairs. On weekends, if the fiance isn't home, I will let Elvis out in the afternoon, but I have found that keeping Elvis on a schedule decreases the screaming when I'm not home. Periodically, I will let Elvis interact with the fiance when I'm there with them. I don't leave them alone and I keep the interaction short. 5-10 minutes. During that time, I tell the fiance all of his attention has to be on Elvis.

It's not ideal. Would I love to have Elvis out more? Yes. But realistically, with work, Elvis couldn't really be out much more than he already is during the week. I hope to someday have some type of outdoor Aviary where Elvis can be outside more too. I have thought about whether Elvis would be better off with someone other than me. Even thinking about it brings tears to my eyes, but I would do it if I thought it was the right thing to do. I have decided though that I think Elvis is really better with me. He's happy. He really is. I might not have given him the perfect life. And not the life I anticipated when I adopted him. But he does have a loving home where he is treated well and does get out of cage time everyday. This is more that you probably wanted to know. LOL. But I just wanted you to see that things don't have to be perfect for your goffin. Just good. And you're clearly a loving owner. I'd be happy to talk more with you about things if you want. Also, I help with a rescue in PA. So I can discuss those option with you too. Either way, I'm willing to help.

 

[peggopanic]

BirdTricks main sales person is gone now... apparently off training dogs instead of parrots?

Still, if you want professional advice, I would recommend seeking out professional trainers and behaviorists.

Sorry to add to an old thread, I really didn’t want to start a new one just for Bird Tricks. I’ve always known of them but not much as I never needed a consult. As I am seeking one now (going with Pamela Clark), I ended up doing research because someone on social media recommended them to me but she was also a complete novice with zero bird experience. I thought it was weird she provided a discount code. I thought I was crazy they gave me their rates and then searching for the Womachs, it seems like they‘re out to make a dollar with their training. Not to mention, I reached out via Instagram and they were curt and almost non responsive. I’d sent them a scathing follow up but am curious to know, is there anything else bad about them? That person still works with them and it feels like she’s marketing for them now. Don’t get me wrong, I know a business needs to make money. But if your biz is to help others... I just don’t agree.

 

[Monica]

@peggopanic Here's a long thread on peoples thoughts

Opinions on BirdTricks?

I had no idea where to post this thread so I'm just going to put it down here. I've noticed the Bird-tricks website and videos a couple of times now, and I'm interested to see what you guys think of them. Particularly there training methods, are they good for smaller birds? Are there videos...

forums.avianavenue.com

 

[peggopanic]

@peggopanic Here's a long thread on peoples thoughts

Opinions on BirdTricks?

I had no idea where to post this thread so I'm just going to put it down here. I've noticed the Bird-tricks website and videos a couple of times now, and I'm interested to see what you guys think of them. Particularly there training methods, are they good for smaller birds? Are there videos...

forums.avianavenue.com

I did see that thread, thank you! The list of resources linked to another post is excellent as well. Just their attitude alone in dealing with me was more than enough to push me away. For folks who enjoy making money, they sure as heck didn’t want mine!

 

[faislaq]

I have decided though that I think Elvis is really better with me. He's happy. He really is. I might not have given him the perfect life. And not the life I anticipated when I adopted him. But he does have a loving home where he is treated well and does get out of cage time everyday. I just wanted you to see that things don't have to be perfect for your goffin. Just good.

Exactly this.