Mutation help

[Gypsysoul]

I am in need of some help identifying the mutation of my Archer. She is female, just recently had her first clutch with two sweet babies that hatched. I am thinking she may be creamino? She is mostly white with like an opaline yellow pattern and grey tips.on her wings, very faint turquoise on her rump.The breeder won't give me the time of day to answer me.
I only want to know because one of her babies seems to be albino or another mutation that would end up with red eyes and both babies have absolutely no black on their beaks since day one. The father, Bluebell I also put up a picture too. When we first got him he was blues and grey, not much green and no yellow. Now he looks to be Dutch blue or maybe seagreen?

I am super curious as to what mutation she is and what her babies may end up being.

 

[Shezbug]

@Monica

 

[Sparkles99]

Very beautiful bird!

 

[Gypsysoul]

Thank you

 

[Gypsysoul]

But yeah, if anyone has an idea or could point me in the right direction for mutation information that would be awesome. While I was not expecting a clutch(long, unfortunate story about the aviary Archer is from) since I was told I would be getting a male, at least I have had experience with baby parrots so I am all prepared. It is like an obsession to find answers!!

 

[Destiny]

I am not an expert on lovebird mutations by any means, but I can say a white lovebird, like yours, would most likely be a bird that has the ino (or fallow) mutation, along with a blue or par-blue mutation. The blue mutation prevents yellow coloring, so green areas appear blue. Par-blue (partial blue) mutations are mutations that reduce yellow color expression incompletely, resulting in a turquoise or blue/green bird. The ino mutation prevents melanin production, which is responsible for blue and black markings. Areas that are normally green will be yellow on an ino bird. Normally blue areas will be white. A parblue bird will be a "creamino" with pale yellow and white areas. In peach-face lovebirds, there is no true blue mutation, like there is in eye-ring lovebirds and some other parrots, like budgies, so a true albino isn't possible unless the bird is a hybrid lovebird.

Your bird is too white to be a lutino and too yellow to be an albino, so she is a creamino. She most likely has parblue and ino genes. Parblue comes in three "flavors" - Dutch Blue also known as Aqua. White-Faced Blue also known as Turquoise. And Sea Green also known as Aqua Turquoise. Aqua has more green color. Turquoise has more blue color. AquaTurquoise is in between the two colors, because the bird has one gene for Aqua and one gene for Turquoise.

I don't know enough about how the different creamino combinations look to guess at her exact genetics, but I would lean toward your girl being turquoise/white-faced blue based on how white she is.

Your boy is definitely some kind of parblue, either WF blue or seagreen. And based on the results of this breeding - he is also split to ino. To get ino babies with a female ino, the dad must also be carrying an ino gene. Ino is a sex-linked recessive gene.

Did you get your birds from the same breeder or different places?

If you got them both from the same breeder at the same time, I would guess they could be from the same clutch or related to each other, since they are carrying very similar mutations. If they came from different places, that should not be a concern. Their babies will most likely be either turquoise or creamino. I would not expect any normal greens, since both parents are blue series.

 

[Monica]

Mom does appear to be a creamino pied - can't tell for sure if opaline as well

Dad appears to be seagreen


I do believe that @Zara has a better eye for spotting correct mutations in lovebirds!

 

[fluffypoptarts]

@expressmailtome

 

[Gypsysoul]

I am not an expert on lovebird mutations by any means, but I can say a white lovebird, like yours, would most likely be a bird that has the ino (or fallow) mutation, along with a blue or par-blue mutation. The blue mutation prevents yellow coloring, so green areas appear blue. Par-blue (partial blue) mutations are mutations that reduce yellow color expression incompletely, resulting in a turquoise or blue/green bird. The ino mutation prevents melanin production, which is responsible for blue and black markings. Areas that are normally green will be yellow on an ino bird. Normally blue areas will be white. A parblue bird will be a "creamino" with pale yellow and white areas. In peach-face lovebirds, there is no true blue mutation, like there is in eye-ring lovebirds and some other parrots, like budgies, so a true albino isn't possible unless the bird is a hybrid lovebird.

Your bird is too white to be a lutino and too yellow to be an albino, so she is a creamino. She most likely has parblue and ino genes. Parblue comes in three "flavors" - Dutch Blue also known as Aqua. White-Faced Blue also known as Turquoise. And Sea Green also known as Aqua Turquoise. Aqua has more green color. Turquoise has more blue color. AquaTurquoise is in between the two colors, because the bird has one gene for Aqua and one gene for Turquoise.

I don't know enough about how the different creamino combinations look to guess at her exact genetics, but I would lean toward your girl being turquoise/white-faced blue based on how white she is.

Your boy is definitely some kind of parblue, either WF blue or seagreen. And based on the results of this breeding - he is also split to ino. To get ino babies with a female ino, the dad must also be carrying an ino gene. Ino is a sex-linked recessive gene.

Did you get your birds from the same breeder or different places?

If you got them both from the same breeder at the same time, I would guess they could be from the same clutch or related to each other, since they are carrying very similar mutations. If they came from different places, that should not be a concern. Their babies will most likely be either turquoise or creamino. I would not expect any normal greens, since both parents are blue series.

Thank you for all of the information! They came from two different people so are not related, but they did choose each other rather quickly!
Where would the red eyes come from? If she most likely is creamino, would the albino baby most likely have come from her or the male? Or just the mix of the two? I read an article about creaminos being able to have red eyes, but I find a lot of conflicting info. Lol I know I can wait until they are feathered, I just am so curious about the genetic aspect.

 

[Destiny]

I have never bred lovebirds, but my understanding is that all babies with the ino mutation will have red eyes. The red color may be less noticeable in adults, but if they are a true ino, they can't product melanin in their eyes, so they will not be true black. There are a few mutations that can mimic the appearance of albinism without being caused by the ino mutation - in budgies, these birds are called dark-eyed clears. Double-factor spangles can also appear solid yellow or solid white, but have black eyes. I haven't heard of dark eyed clears in lovebirds.

Since the mom is a creamino, she would give her male offspring one copy of the ino gene. Her female offspring would not get the gene from her, because she gave them the sex-determining chromosome instead. Sex-linked genes are on the other chromosome. Any female inos must get the gene from their father. Likewise, the father would need to supply a second gene to make ino visible in male offspring. Therefore, any ino babies would need to have received a copy of the gene from the father, so he must be split to ino. With this pairing, your ino babies might be male or female, you can't guess the gender based on the color. With some pairings, the sex-linked inheritance patterns will let you determine gender based on color - for example, if the father was ino and the mother was parblue, any ino offspring would have to be female. Male offspring would be split to ino, but none of them would be visibly ino.

Fun fact - birds have different sex chromosomes compared to mammals, like humans. In humans, the female has two X chromosomes (XX) and the male has one X and one Y chromosome (XY). So the man's contribution determines the gender of the offspring. But in birds, this situation is reversed. The male has two Z chromosomes (ZZ) and the female has a Z and a W chromosome (ZW). This is important for understanding inheritance of sex-linked recessive genes, because they are found on the Z chromosome. To be visible in a male bird, he must have two copies of the mutated recessive gene (one for each of his Z chromosomes). But a female bird only needs one copy of the mutation for this to be visible, because she only has one Z chromosome. This is also why a female cannot pass on sex-linked recessive genes to her female offspring. In order to be female, the offspring would have received a copy of her W chromosome (sex chromosome), instead of the Z chromosome with the mutated gene.

 

[Monica]

Cinnamons, fallows and inos can all have red eyes. Cinnamon and ino are both sex-linked (males give gene to daughters to get visual offspring, if female is visual then both sons and daughters could be visual) where-as fallow is not. Fallow is recessive, meaning that both parents must carry the mutation in order to get visual offspring.

In short though, yes, dad is split for something.

 

[Gypsysoul]

I have never bred lovebirds, but my understanding is that all babies with the ino mutation will have red eyes. The red color may be less noticeable in adults, but if they are a true ino, they can't product melanin in their eyes, so they will not be true black. There are a few mutations that can mimic the appearance of albinism without being caused by the ino mutation - in budgies, these birds are called dark-eyed clears. Double-factor spangles can also appear solid yellow or solid white, but have black eyes. I haven't heard of dark eyed clears in lovebirds.

Since the mom is a creamino, she would give her male offspring one copy of the ino gene. Her female offspring would not get the gene from her, because she gave them the sex-determining chromosome instead. Sex-linked genes are on the other chromosome. Any female inos must get the gene from their father. Likewise, the father would need to supply a second gene to make ino visible in male offspring. Therefore, any ino babies would need to have received a copy of the gene from the father, so he must be split to ino. With this pairing, your ino babies might be male or female, you can't guess the gender based on the color. With some pairings, the sex-linked inheritance patterns will let you determine gender based on color - for example, if the father was ino and the mother was parblue, any ino offspring would have to be female. Male offspring would be split to ino, but none of them would be visibly ino.

Fun fact - birds have different sex chromosomes compared to mammals, like humans. In humans, the female has two X chromosomes (XX) and the male has one X and one Y chromosome (XY). So the man's contribution determines the gender of the offspring. But in birds, this situation is reversed. The male has two Z chromosomes (ZZ) and the female has a Z and a W chromosome (ZW). This is important for understanding inheritance of sex-linked recessive genes, because they are found on the Z chromosome. To be visible in a male bird, he must have two copies of the mutated recessive gene (one for each of his Z chromosomes). But a female bird only needs one copy of the mutation for this to be visible, because she only has one Z chromosome. This is also why a female cannot pass on sex-linked recessive genes to her female offspring. In order to be female, the offspring would have received a copy of her W chromosome (sex chromosome), instead of the Z chromosome with the mutated gene.

Very interesting! Is there any books that you would recommend for the genetic aspect of parrots, mainly lovebirds? Or websites?