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More birds that will need permits if sold across state lines

jmfleish

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I just saw this on Facebook:

IMPORTANT: The lesser sulphur-crested cockatoo (group) including the Citron crested, and the Red-vented cockatoo were officially listed as Endangered on the US Endangered Species Act as of TODAY. NO MORE Selling across a State Line without FEDERAL PERMITS. No exceptions, not even for pets. The AFA fought this listing for captive birds but the Federal government does not agree that captive birds are not a threat to wild flocks. BE careful.....do not ship birds in commerce!!
 

Stormcloud

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The only reason that I can see for introducing such legislation is that there must be people/organisations/companies still bringing these birds into the US either under a government issued permit or they're being smuggled in illegally. Let's face it, the legislation is clearly designed to make it more difficult for a breeder, individual or company to sell the birds in any real quantity without the government supposedly knowing about it.
 

expressmailtome

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This is truly sad. These birds are already in this country. Legislation like this causes great problems with being able to maintain proper genetic diversity with these species. Without available genetic diversity, many good breeders will stop breeding these species. Therefore, eventually these species will no longer exist in private aviculture. As many species are not "attention grabbers", most zoos do not breed them. Since many species seem doomed to become extinct in the wild, we need to preserve them in captivity. It seems to me that this will have the opposite effect from what the law was intended to do.

Matt
 

jmfleish

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Actually, PETA, HSUS, and other AR organizations are putting pressure on the US government to keep adding these species to the endangered species list because it hurts breeding. We can kiss the Red Vents goodbye if we can't transfer them across state borders without a permit.
 

jmfleish

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Yes Matt, this is truly sad indeed. I believe the White Cockatoo or Umbrella was also on this list.
 

Hankmacaw

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The only reason that I can see for introducing such legislation is that there must be people/organisations/companies still bringing these birds into thec US either under a government issued permit or they're being smuggled in illegally. Let's face it, the legislation is clearly designed to make it more difficult for a breeder, individual or company to sell the birds in any real quantity without the government supposedly knowing about it.
Unfortunately Gerard, we here in the US have many very strong and well funded Animal Rights groups, a number of which have the sole objective of no pets for anyone, anywhere. These types of laws are unenforceable and are negative for the welfare of the native population - the harder something is to get, the more people desire that thing and the black market and smugglers are happy to supply it.
 

expressmailtome

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Yes Matt, this is truly sad indeed. I believe the White Cockatoo or Umbrella was also on this list.
From what I have read the umbrella cockatoo was listed as threatened while the others were listed as endangered.

Matt
 

expressmailtome

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Another unfortunate result of these laws is an increase in hybrids. Since hybrids have no wild population and are not a true species, they are not covered by this law. Therefore, people who are not concerned with maintaining the pure species will turn to hybridizing as a way to continue aviculture. It is sad that these are some of the results of such laws.

Matt
 

Scully

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this breaks my heart because of the fact that people will want these birds for status symbol and not due to being the right fit. There's going to be a lot of hurt & sick 'toos because of ignorance and it makes me want to cry.
 

CaliCash

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Sorry to bring this back up, but honestly trying to wrap my head around this and get a better understanding. Time has obviously passed since the original post. I’ve heard of this and wondered if I were to have a bird on this list or the list gets revamped and my birds are placed on this, would I be allowed to cross state lines if I move and want my birds with me? Or is this something that will make it illegal for me to already own a bird and perhaps have a need to relocate to a different state with my birds?
 

Xoetix

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Sorry to bring this back up, but honestly trying to wrap my head around this and get a better understanding. Time has obviously passed since the original post. I’ve heard of this and wondered if I were to have a bird on this list or the list gets revamped and my birds are placed on this, would I be allowed to cross state lines if I move and want my birds with me? Or is this something that will make it illegal for me to already own a bird and perhaps have a need to relocate to a different state with my birds?
so, I’m in the reptile hobby as well as having birds. If it works the same way, if you already have the bird and the laws change in your state, you should be able to be grandfathered in. all that would mean would be getting a license or a permit that states that you already had this animal. When it comes to moving, the way I understand it is that you should be OK IF you don't have a bird that's outright illegal in that state - For example, quaker parrots are illegal to have in Georgia, so you would not be able to move there with a Quaker parrot and be able to keep it. You might be able to get a license or a permit, but I’m not 100% sure on that.
 

expressmailtome

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Sorry to bring this back up, but honestly trying to wrap my head around this and get a better understanding. Time has obviously passed since the original post. I’ve heard of this and wondered if I were to have a bird on this list or the list gets revamped and my birds are placed on this, would I be allowed to cross state lines if I move and want my birds with me? Or is this something that will make it illegal for me to already own a bird and perhaps have a need to relocate to a different state with my birds?
so, I’m in the reptile hobby as well as having birds. If it works the same way, if you already have the bird and the laws change in your state, you should be able to be grandfathered in. all that would mean would be getting a license or a permit that states that you already had this animal. When it comes to moving, the way I understand it is that you should be OK IF you don't have a bird that's outright illegal in that state - For example, quaker parrots are illegal to have in Georgia, so you would not be able to move there with a Quaker parrot and be able to keep it. You might be able to get a license or a permit, but I’m not 100% sure on that.
This post is about the federal laws, so under federal law, yes, you can keep your bird even if it is on this list and you move to another state. However, state laws are a different matter. Some states have tried to, and if I recall correctly at least a few have, passed laws that make it illegal to own animals on the ESA. In that case, even though federal law does not prohibit it, you could not own the animal in that state.
 

FiatLux

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Perhaps @aaoratrix would know but I thought these laws referred specifically to the sale and trade of protected species, not the ownership of an already acquired bird. An owner of a CITES II bird needs a CITES certificate to prove the bird is captive bred and not illegally imported but I do not believe that means you cannot transport your bird across state lines (unless of course the new state prohibits ownership of the species—for example, quakers in California). This is just my limited understanding though —I’d love to read more informed members’ analysis.
 

expressmailtome

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Perhaps @aaoratrix would know but I thought these laws referred specifically to the sale and trade of protected species, not the ownership of an already acquired bird. An owner of a CITES II bird needs a CITES certificate to prove the bird is captive bred and not illegally imported but I do not believe that means you cannot transport your bird across state lines (unless of course the new state prohibits ownership of the species—for example, quakers in California). This is just my limited understanding though —I’d love to read more informed members’ analysis.
That is correct for the federal law. I was just saying that different states are allowed to handle things as they wish through their own laws.
 
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