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Mating behaviour/gender mystery

Toots

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4/10/23
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Alisa
Hey, Chippie and Toot checking in again! This post is a 50/50 update on their situation and a bit of a cry for help.

Straightaway warning before the main post - we do not know the birds' sexes 100%. Tooty was never DNA sexed and Chippie was sold us as a male, however no DNA certificate was provided either. We just made behavioural assumptions (that Toot is a female) since I was anxious to do the testing due to the necessity of plucking their feathers, but now I think it is important as ever so will do it soon.

So as I mentioned in the post below, two of them became great friends, and moreover, in the last 10 days they've been showing a lot of what seems is mating behaviour. Preening, occasionally feeding each other, and quite often - butt hugging/rubbing (sorry I don't know what else to call it :D). But the weird thing I noticed that both of them can attempt to throw a leg over another bird (I thought only males did it). Chippie also turned out to be quite an explorer, one day he just went venturing through the whole room (Tooty never done it in his life), running on the foor, going to the corners, and behind sofa pillows, Toots following him everywhere. I thought maybe they were looking for a nest?

Regarding nesting behaviour, I only recently learned that it's better to not encourage it if you don't want chicks. But since the dawn of time, Tooty really liked burrowing for the night (he never showed this behaviour during the day). One day he took a liking on a fleece beanie and went to sleep there every night. When they became friends with Chippie, they both would go in there, but recently they also started to spend a lot of time in the hat during the day. I did not realise that it could be nesting behaviour at first, but after a few days I removed it.

In the last 3-4 days, I noticed more changes occurred and I don't know if I need to worry. First, I noticed that they both started pooping less frequently (although seem to be not constipated). Toots always pooped big in the morning, then smaller ones around every 30-40 minutes during the day, but now they both seem to poop every 1.5-2.5h or even longer. Poops look healthy to me though. I thought maybe it's part of nesting behaviour (trying to keep it clean). In the last week or so, Chippie also developed a huge liking to eat poop, even though I provide them with fresh vegetables/fruits every day (usually carrots, broccoli, orange/apple, spinach). they also have a small iodine block. I try my best to keep everything clean but sometimes he just manages to reach it. Toots had a similar problem when we just got him, but it went away by itself later.

The most worrying change is Chippie's changed demeanour and sometimes he looks a bit lethargic and fluffed up. He eats normally, doesn't wobble, seems to walk/climb/fly around pretty normally but still something seems a bit off from the time like a week ago. I also noticed that compared to Toot, he has really fluffy, almost bulging bum (pictures attached, Toot is there for comparison). It might be silly but considering Chippie really went ham on that hat nest and generally seems like he's looking to burrow somewhere, he might be a female? It's a big mystery until we know their sexes for sure, but I am desperate for any advice if Chippie's behaviour means something (like there is an egg or he's actually ill) and whether extra steps need to be taken at this point. For now, I am trying to prevent any nesting, feed them calcium-rich foods just in case and maybe prolong the night hours as well.
 

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Birds very rarely to never get constipated, due to their combined waste excretion system. Females can have egg blocking and thst can lead to straining and difficulty passing poop and egg binding is an emergency if this was to ever happen.
It's more likely if there is an issue it's taking in less food , leading to less poop which could be because their focus is on hormonal activities. Or a health issue.

The yellow one looks my Phoebe does when she is carrying an egg that she is getting ready to lay .

Besides veggies what do they eat ? You might want to offer some little bit extra protein. I like boiled egg or scrambled egg just a small amount a couple of times a week . Cooked lentil or peas have protein as well . Sprouts are also just good in general to add into the rotation.

Make sure a bath is available daily fur them to choose if they want .
 

Toots

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In terms of eating, they seem to be okay - they eat at regular intervals. Besides the greens and fruits they have seeds. Thank you for the advice, I will give them some egg and lentils. They also have a warm bath available most of the day

They are being quite active today again, walking in the different corners of the room, poking at places they can tuck themselves in. If Chippie is really about to lay an egg, what's the best way to monitor the progress and is there anything I can do to help? Should I still not provide any nesting? Could it be that she is not laying because there is no suitable place to do so?
 
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This diet is lacking in my opinion. It's not got enough calcium and vitamin D , likely low in Vitamin A and other nutrients.

Increase the variety of veggies, romaine lettuce is actually a good source of vitamin A, as are all peppers , especially deep color ones , mine love yellow and orange bell peppers best then red chili peppers, but all are good to offer . Sweet potato are a great source of vitamin A as well most people offer cooked and many parrots love , I have read raw is safe and I also offer that way. Swiss chard , watercress .there is a big list of parrot safe veggies. They already eat some , so great! It probably won't take long to explore more variety, but fint give up if at first are hesitant.

I'm against citrus, birds di t really need vitamin c, they make their own . Plus it's the vitric a ud in ors ges that can cause a issue. Instead include things like blue berries, cranberry, pomegranate, mango , papaya, cherry and plum without the pit . Generally for non fruitivoir species, fruits should only be ten percent of daily diet.

Spinach , I think is best to not offer daily. For reasons that slip my mind . But it's fine to offer romaine daily. You can offer human grade dandelion greens, mustard greens, kale .

The egg will have a small amount of vitamin D , plus E and B12 , protein..you can offered the boiled egg shell too , for calcium. My birds will eat and enjoy egg shells on occasion.

But think about introducing pellets as part of their diet , to fill in nutrition gaps .
 

Toots

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Found a broken egg on the floor of the cage today's morning. No idea who laid it, but still suspicious it's Chippy's. Toots seems like himself, while Chippy is a bit more fluffed up. I was wondering whether egg laying can occur in a female-female pair in linnies?
 
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Any female bird can lay eggs , regardless of a male . I have 2 female that stress me out by laying eggs and have gotten into trouble.
If your bird had been egg bound, but thankfully laid the egg. They can still get an infection, because their system all comes together and swelling and little tears can lead to bad infection that travels up inside of them . It can be life threatening and need antibiotics. Which has happened twice with mine.
Also another egg is likely. I suggest adding a calcium supplement fir birds. Low calcium and low vitamin D can play a huge roll in causing egg binding.
 

NorthernGannet

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My girls lay 4-6 eggs each, every few months when hormones come around. One lays while perching, so hers always break. The other lays on the grate at the bottom, and I just remove them each morning while she's eating. This has worked so far. I offer crushed oyster shell as the main calcium supplement, they can regulate their intake that way, rather than being forced to drink it when they just want water. They also nibble on an e-cuttlebone by Penn Plax, but less so than the crushed oyster. I tried finely crushed egg shells but neither of mine have taken interest in that.
 

NorthernGannet

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And one of mine gets fluffier than the other during egg laying, she looks a lot like yours in your pic. At first I worried, but she's always like this so it's just her norm. You will learn what is your bird's normal behavior.
 

Toots

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Thank you for the advice. I've been giving them a lot of calcium-rich foods and other vegetables, but today she laid another one and it had some blood stains on it. So I've ordered some extra powder and liquid calcium supplements that I will start feeding them tomorrow. I am really worried but I am not sure what else to do, people online seem to have different information on how to discourage egg laying. While some just remove the eggs, others recommend putting some sort of an open nest-box so they can sit on them and lose interest after.


Pixiebeak, what were the infections signs in your birds?
 

NorthernGannet

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For What it's worth, my female parrotlet had that exact same thing happen on the second egg she'd ever laid, some blood stains. That was earlier this year, she's around 6 yrs old. I freaked out but then looked around and it seems that isn't all that uncommon for first time layers. Something about blood vessels and whatnot. Anyway, she went on to lay several more eggs in a food dish without any issue, or blood. Hopefully yours will be same!
 
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