Male or female

[Geir]

Hi
Me and my wife have bought some cockatiels over the last year and are now planning to do some breeding. We think that sexing of the birds is difficult, and we would be very happy of someone could help us to determine. We would also very much appreciate suggestions of pairs that would be a nice combination. And, if some of the birds should not be used for breeding, please be honest.

Sorry if some of the birds looks a bit scared in the pictures. Our birds have a good life in a big aviary but we had to catch them to take the pictures.

Your help would be highly appreciated!

Regards

 

[Shezbug]

@Zara might be able to offer some advice.

Just some things to think about before Zara or another member with parrot breeding experience comes along to answer you…

Did you get your birds from the same place/breeder?
Are you certain they’re not related?
Have they been vet checked and fed appropriately for breeding?
Have they found their own partners in the aviary?
Have you got an idea of what the supply and demand for cockatiels is in your area?
Do you know how to hand feed and do you have a brooder and funds for any vet visits you may need?


Just letting you know that you can’t just throw birds together and decide they’re a pair because they’d make nice offspring especially if they have partnered up already.

 

[Geir]

@Zara might be able to offer some advice.

Just some things to think about before Zara or another member with parrot breeding experience comes along to answer you…

Did you get your birds from the same place/breeder?
Are you certain they’re not related?
Have they been vet checked and fed appropriately for breeding?
Have they found their own partners in the aviary?
Have you got an idea of what the supply and demand for cockatiels is in your area?
Do you know how to hand feed and do you have a brooder and funds for any vet visits you may need?


Just letting you know that you can’t just throw birds together and decide they’re a pair because they’d make nice offspring especially if they have partnered up already.

Hi and thanks for questions Shezbug



-Two of the lutino birds are from the same breeder. We are not sure how they are related, but we will not put them together. The other birds are not related.

-They are not vet checked regarding breeding. Should they? There are very few bird vets around here (western Norway), so we would have to travel several hours to do so.

-We haven’t noticed any pairs yet. But we will keep a close eye on this in the future. We are in a stiff learning phase but will not do breeding just to do breeding. It is important for us to get health and nice-looking offspring. A good start would be knowing the sexes. We have been searching for information about how pairing of different types (yellowface, whiteface, pearl and pied) will result in offspring, but it is hard to find, so advice is appreciated.

-When it comes to supply and demand… Supply is primary from private owners in Norway. But we also have birds from professional breeders in Norway and Denmark. The demand is normal. We have agreement with a couple of pet shops. But we are not doing this to earn money, this is just a nice hobby for us.

-We don’t know all about hand feeding yet but will find out. We have quite a lot of experience with birds, we also have a pair of grey jaco and hens.



Again, thank you for your time, Shezbug!

 

[Zara]

Hello Geir, Welcome to the Avenue,

They are not vet checked regarding breeding. Should they?

Yes. You want to be sure they are in optimum health before allowing them to breed.

There are very few bird vets around here (western Norway), so we would have to travel several hours to do so.

You may want to factor this into your decision to breed. If there´s a problem with a chick, or one of the parents, you will likely need a vet. Some more experienced breeders may know solutions to some problems, but even they will run into situations where they need vets assistance, medications etc. Having a breeder that is willing to help nearby could help for some of the minor problems that may arise, but like I said, the vet is irreplaceable.

We don’t know all about hand feeding yet but will find out.

I wouldn´t advise to attempt any breeding until you learn this skill. It truly is important and could save chicks lives. The vet may be able to teach you, or visit a breeder and ask for a demo, observe them feeding. It´s not like feeding a baby, a goat or a puppy, it´s quite different and the best way to learn definitely is hands on.

We have quite a lot of experience with birds, we also have a pair of grey jaco and hens.

Here in Spain they also call African Greys ¨Yaco¨


Another thing, you may want to invest in a good book, one that is species specific that will go into great detail on husbandry, breeding, mutations. One written by an expert in the field. Something like that is great for reference. Hopefully someone can suggest such book.

As for all of the mutation and sexing questions, I will tag some members who are very knowledgable
@Monica @Tiel Feathers

 

[Geir]

Hello Geir, Welcome to the Avenue,


Yes. You want to be sure they are in optimum health before allowing them to breed.


You may want to factor this into your decision to breed. If there´s a problem with a chick, or one of the parents, you will likely need a vet. Some more experienced breeders may know solutions to some problems, but even they will run into situations where they need vets assistance, medications etc. Having a breeder that is willing to help nearby could help for some of the minor problems that may arise, but like I said, the vet is irreplaceable.


I wouldn´t advise to attempt any breeding until you learn this skill. It truly is important and could save chicks lives. The vet may be able to teach you, or visit a breeder and ask for a demo, observe them feeding. It´s not like feeding a baby, a goat or a puppy, it´s quite different and the best way to learn definitely is hands on.


Here in Spain they also call African Greys ¨Yaco¨


Another thing, you may want to invest in a good book, one that is species specific that will go into great detail on husbandry, breeding, mutations. One written by an expert in the field. Something like that is great for reference. Hopefully someone can suggest such book.

As for all of the mutation and sexing questions, I will tag some members who are very knowledgable
@Monica @Tiel Feathers

Hi Zara and thank you for your response.

We have just invested in a good book, this one: Cockatiels and their Mutations as Pet and Aviary Birds av Terry Martin, m.fl. som bok, hardback fra Tales.no

We are now getting help from a very experienced breeder that will help us with the practical breeding issues (hand feeding etc.), and also the pet assistance issue. He lives 30 minutes away... He has breed tropical birds for about 30 years and has today 6 species of parrots and a bunch of smaller birds.

Thanks again Zara.

 

[sunnysmom]

I would definitely read up on breeding etc. This is a good resource for baby tiels: www.ask-noodles.com. I would say #1, 3, 7 and 14 are boys. #2 and 4 I think are girls. The rest, I'm not sure. Do you know how old they are? You don't want young birds to breed. They are just not mature enough to take care of babies.

 

[Geir]

I would definitely read up on breeding etc. This is a good resource for baby tiels: www.ask-noodles.com. I would say #1, 3, 7 and 14 are boys. #2 and 4 I think are girls. The rest, I'm not sure. Do you know how old they are? You don't want young birds to breed. They are just not mature enough to take care of babies.

We are reading up on breeding and genetics now. Thanks, www.ask-noodles.com is a good resource, learning a lot.

Most of our birds are about one year old. But we will not breed them before they are more than two years old. Thanks a lot for sex suggestions.

Regards

 

[SarahSpork]

I can say with some confidence birds #4 and #15 are likely female. Assuming they are adults, only females keep visual pearling, as it is a sex-linked gene. So if you want babies with pearling you may want to pair them with a male that also carries the gene.

Please wait until they are at least 2 years old before breeding though.

This tool may be helpful to you as well.
Gencalc

 

[Geir]

I can say with some confidence birds #4 and #15 are likely female. Assuming they are adults, only females keep visual pearling, as it is a sex-linked gene. So if you want babies with pearling you may want to pair them with a male that also carries the gene.

Please wait until they are at least 2 years old before breeding though.

This tool may be helpful to you as well.
Gencalc

I have been reading a lot about genetics, and found out that the pearls will disappear on the males, so #4 and #15 are females. The genetics field is a bit complicated, I think, but we are learning... Thanks for info and link to the Genecalc.

 

[Monica]

Any information you can find from Susanne Russo would be fabulous as well! She was a great resource in breeding and mutations in cockatiels!

Cockatiel Mutations: A Bounty of Color - Kindle edition by Russo, Susanne. Crafts, Hobbies & Home Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

Cockatiel Mutations: A Bounty of Color - Kindle edition by Russo, Susanne. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Cockatiel Mutations: A Bounty of Color.

www.amazon.com

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Here are some books you may consider getting

A Guide to Incubation & Handraising Parrots: Digney, Phil: 9780958710213: Amazon.com: Books

A Guide to Incubation & Handraising Parrots [Digney, Phil] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A Guide to Incubation & Handraising Parrots

www.amazon.com

Hand-Feeding and Raising Baby Birds: Breeding, Hand-Feeding, Care, and Management: Vriends, Ph.D. Matthew M.: 9780812095814: Amazon.com: Books

Hand-Feeding and Raising Baby Birds: Breeding, Hand-Feeding, Care, and Management [Vriends, Ph.D. Matthew M.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Hand-Feeding and Raising Baby Birds: Breeding, Hand-Feeding, Care, and Management

www.amazon.com

Parrots: Hand Feeding and Nursery Management: Voren, Howard, Jordan, Rick: 9781895270105: Amazon.com: Books

Parrots: Hand Feeding and Nursery Management [Voren, Howard, Jordan, Rick] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Parrots: Hand Feeding and Nursery Management

www.amazon.com

As far as the birds go.... some guesses.... (assuming they are 1+ years old and in adult feathering)

#1 - Cinnamon Pearl split Whiteface Male (check base of tail feathers for mottling - if there's mottling, visual pearl - if no mottling, I could guess split pearl)

#2 - Cinnamon Hen

#3 - Whiteface Pearl Male (he should have the mottling on the base of his tail feathers for sure!)

#4 - Cinnamon Pearl Pied Hen

#5 - Lutino Hen (? - black light may help to determine gender easier! If spots/stripes show up, probably hen! if they don't, probably male *or* clear pied - I do see at least a lutino hen, can't tell if there's other mutations or not - may not be ideal to breed unless you plan to breed with normal males with nice thick feathering)

#6 - Whiteface Lutino Hen - I can see her stripes on her tail feathers. Hard to tell for sure, but her head feathers appear 'good' - breed to a normal male with nice thick feathering, possibly one split whiteface if you want some whiteface offspring

#7 - Normal male split whiteface and pearl?

#8 - Lutino, possibly pied, hen - has good feather coverage

#9 - Lutino ??? Hen - feather coverage doesn't seem to be as good, but better than #5

#10 - Cinnamon Pied Hen

#11 - Pearl Pied - hen? (could be a male as well)

#12 - Whiteface Pied - probably hen

#13 - Lutino male (?)

#14 - Pearl Whiteface - you can CLEARLY see the lovely mottling in his tail feathers!!!! This indicates he's visual pearl and not split pearl

#15 - Pearl Pied - again, probably hen





I can easily be wrong on some of their genders! Ino birds can be difficult to sex! A black light does help, though! A lot! As long as the bird is not pied.

Pearl pied males may also keep their pearls for LONGER than non-pied pearl males.



Do not pair an Ino bird with another Ino bird. If the bird has poor feathering, do not even pair that bird with a bird that is split Ino, Pearl or Pied. Best to pair with normal colored bird with good feather coverage and "breed out" for two or three generations before trying to breed back to Ino.


Susanne Russo actually had info going into detail about breeding lutinos. May need to find her website and use it with the WayBackMachine to pull up the info.... unless she shared it somewhere on the web or in her cockatiel mutations book.

 

[Monica]

BTW, this may sound odd, but I would recommend reading up on what "puppy culture" is about and, if you are serious about raising babies, see what protocols you can incorporate into raising the chicks. Bird friendly ones, of course!

In puppy culture, they might recommend giving puppies large raw bones! For baby birds, you could give them sprouted seeds, chopped vegetables, etc. Introduce them to a variety of sounds, items, handling, etc with safety in mind. Throw in some mental enrichment, too.

 

[Zara]

Susanne Russo actually had info going into detail about breeding lutinos. May need to find her website and use it with the WayBackMachine to pull up the info.... unless she shared it somewhere on the web or in her cockatiel mutations book.

You can get to older articles via the ask noodles site.

Cockatiel Genetics 101

Cockatiel Genetics 101 by Lauren Petro and Susanne Russo and Crystal Renee Bush

web.archive.org

Breeding for Proportionate Birds

Using the Standard as a Guideline to Breeding for Proportionate Birds

web.archive.org

Sexing Cockatiels

If you are new to Cockatiels it may not seem like a big deal to know the gender/sex of the bird. For most it is not a problem until one day you learn that Johnny is not a male. Or, how come...

web.archive.org

This one article talks about Lutinos,

Why Pure Normals are Important

Why Pure Normals are Important by Susanne Russo and Crystal Hopkins/Bush

web.archive.org

Mutation Abbreviations

Mutation Abbreviations

web.archive.org