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Macaw- Bound egg after 17 years

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WingedVictory

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Hi, hope your bird is doing better. We have a blue and Gold 15 years old here that has just laid 4 eggs, it was her first time at laying also. What I did for ours is give her an additional calcium supplement in her water and some on her food, so far so good. Savanah is in with her buddy a 15-17 year old Scarlet, they have not mated just buddies at this time. I check her cage several times a day and she has been fine. You can get a calcium supplement online or at one of the bigger pet chains or maybe your bet gave her a shot? Keep here away from the other birds and calm. Our is in the middle of our macaws but is doing OK, Here is a link: CalciBoost - Liquid Calcium For Birds gary
 

shybirdiegirl

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I am so sad to hear your little girl is having problems and doesn't feel well!
I agree with the folks who have suggested you seperate her totally from the flock, and keep her warmer as well, We have a small room here we use as a 'hospital' room if someone is not feeling well, we have a portable space heater that can send the temperature up to 85-90 degrees in there. Also make sure you offer her alot of water in that warm an environment. I have had to dose a couple of large birds, my B&G having to take baytril (yuck!) he was not very cooperative with the syringe, so I tried several different things, He loved toast so I would toast bread, cut it into a few small croutons and drop the baytril on the pcs of toast...then spread peanut butter on it, he would then eat breakfast with me, and eat the toast and peanut pcs, so I knew he had taken his medicine.
Make sure you give her alot of comforting, and quietness as well.
Much good luck with your girl, hope she feels better soon!
 

suncoast

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How is she today. I have always mixed my meds in either handfeeding formula or light soy milk and given either with a syringe or from a spoon. Is there any kind of liquid she likes? OJ? Cranberry, etc?

I don't like how she's doing either, if she's not better this morning I would take her straight back to the vets.

Ginger
 

waterfaller1

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Sending positive healing energy.:hug8: Hope she is better soon.
 

srtiels

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If you talk to the vet you might want to ask him it the egg was normal...meaning a normal density shell or soft shelled. Also ask specifically what the antibiotics were for. If suspected peritonitis the current meds are not going to be enough. I have found that the only real effective meds with peritonitis has been pipercillin, which is an injectable.
 

daria

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I appreciate so much everyone's help and suggestions. My avian vet is well respected but you don't get the practical advice that bird owners with experience can provide. For example, when I told him Littlebird was impossible to give meds , his suggestion was to mix it in handfeeding formula and feed once a day so she was hungry. Quite frankly, when a bird is doing so poorly it's my instinct to get her to eat and figure another way to get the meds in. There is improvement in that Littlebird ate well and is pooping. I was able to get some Cipro in mixed with spagetti baby food warmed which she loves. My daughter is calling in more Cipro as I wasted a ton trying things. She is too smart for her own good and rejected the peanut butter sandwiches and her fav- fortune cookie (soaked with Cipro). I know the vet gave her IV calcium but I'll get the supplement . Meanwhile I gave her cooled micro waved egg shell which I think she ate. The greenwings in the video are like my greenwings -easy and sweet. I should make a video on how not to give meds staring Littlebird- chasing Littlebird when she spots the towell, trying the lights out technique which she also knows and starts flapping her wings like crazy, getting bitten thru vet handlers gloves, having her shake the Cipro all over you, etc. I'm going to keep her in the indoor aviary today by herself. The vet prescribed Cipro because her white blood cell count was very high and her overies looked inflamed (infected) from the egg retention. I know it must be painful still for her to poop as she tries and stops then, tries again sucessfully. The vet extracted (aspirated) the egg and removed it completely.
 

Hope Riddle

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I am wondering also if probiotics would help? May help boost her immune system as well. I am not a vet, but I don't think they would hurt any either.
 

daria

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Think the probiotics are agreat idea as the Cipro interfers with the bird's normal flora in the intestine. I'm an R.N, and when ever anyone I know gets put on antibiotics I tell them to push Activa yogurt or Kifer unless the antibotic contraindicates like Dorax.
 

srtiels

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Normal oviaries would look like the 2nd pix and an infection in the oviaries would look like the 3rd pix. And the oviaries are way up in the body above the funnel shaped entrance to the oviduct. Could he have meant that the inflamation/infection was in the uterus where the egg was stuck?

Did he also notice ascites (First pix) in the abdomin area? And if so draw some out to see if it was septic or not.

On the egg extracted, did he comment on the shell quality/thickness?

From my own personal experience (cockatiels) you might want to ask about pipercillin in addition to the cipro/baytril. And the full-spectrum lighting will be a big benefit now.

Another thought, if it is painful for her to poop you might want to feel if another egg has traveled to the uterus and lodged there. If so, the egg can put pressure on the intestines and restrict passage, and it also can put pressure on the kidenys and affect function. or on a nerve ans cause lameness or lack of use of the feet/legs.
 

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suncoast

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I PM'd ML who has a ton of experience getting meds into her Macaws. Hopefully she'll respond and give you some ideas.

Ginger
 

Birdbabe

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Just checkin in, I hope shes doing better today.
 

Hankmacaw

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Sorry that your girl is so sick. It is important that she get the full dosage of the meds and that means that adding it to food etc. is just guessing at how much she will be getting.

When you watch the video, keep in mind that these two birds have had meds by mouth for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IyyGRWvfTA
If you are giving her hand feeding (and I highly recommend it), sneak the meds in in between syringes of food. I found that using Pina Colada mix (w/o alcohol) was the best to mask the taste of Cipro/baytril. Cipro/Baytril is pure bitter and really nasty. Additionally, some birds (my Hank) will become sensitive to Baytril and it will make them nauseous and regurgitate. If this happens you will need to go to injections or a different broad spectrum antibiotic and there are many.

If she is getting 1cc, use a 3cc syringe with 2ccs of Pina colada and 1 cc of meds.

Definately give her probiotics. You can get powdered acidophilus at CVS pharmacies and just sprinkle it on her food or mix in the hand feeding. The other thing you can do to help her with nutrition is to give her digestive enzymes such as Prozyme.
 

tracie

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Saying a prayer for your girl, and thank you ML for the awesome advice. You have such great experience, and are so generous to share. Daria, please keep us updated. We are worried about your girl, and your nerves:hug8:
 

angie

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Oh nooo,i hope your girl is going get better!!!
Last summer I had to give Wilbur baytril,and what I did was put some organic no salt peanut butter on the syringe,she could lick it before and after off the syringe.I didnt have to towel her,i think its because she trusts me and she thinks of me as her mate.
I also made a big deal when was done taking the med.i would clap my hands and dance around and act silly,they love that..
 

Prince Toasty Buns

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Yikes! I am not familiar with handling big birds to orally dose her so hopefully someone else can advise there. My only thought would be if she would eat something from a spoon the meds can be added to that.

Did the vet say why the Cipro? Cipro is the human version of Baytril. Does he suspect an infection inside such as peritonitis?

If her bird friend is being testy with her, this will add further stress, so you might consider separating them while you are treating her. She might be better off in a hospital cage with added heat.

Hopefully others familair with macaws can add input.
Susanne, the only difference that I personally know of between Baytril & Cipro is that Cipro is water soluble.

No tricks to offer myself, as I only use a gavage instrument to administer oral meds into the birds in my flock when needed. Can be a bit difficult when they fight it but with an assistant toweling and holding the bird properly/firmly, it gets in there. No experience with sick or needy Macaws yet, those powerful beaks could pose a problem.

Daria, hope your little gal is doing better today and hope you are able to now get the full dose of meds into her.
 

Hankmacaw

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Cipro = Baytril = Enrofloxicin. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Don't get stuck on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
ML
 

daria

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I'll get the Pina Colata mix that comes in the can. I think it will work because Littlebird loves split fresh coconut which I give her often as my house has tons of coconut trees. I think I got the right amount in at 7 with the hand feeding formula. As a nurse I know the importance of the correct dose at the correct time but Littlebird isn't easy. I suspected Cipro was causing her regurgitation which delayed her discharge but so far so good as I've been giving it with food or orange juice. Tommorrow I'll get the probiotics at CVS too. Thanks for the info. Wish I read Susanne's post earlier as my daughter the vet talked to Dr. Harris to get the concentration for the Cipro so she could have asked about the egg's location, shell quality etc. I'll e mail her the pics. She didn't have acities but Dr. Harris did mention the uterus. Littlebird is so obsessed with nest building that I'm going to have to keep her out of the indoor aviary. The trees have grown so it is dark and the paper is a real threat. Now Buddy is making that weird chirping noise and shredding paper in the bottom of the aviary. I have a feeling that the unusually cold weather we had this winter is what stimulated my macaws to go so crazy or maybe it's the handsome wild macaw that has been calling . Anyway someone should invent a Salt Peter for female macaws, cold showers didn't work.
 

daria

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I always babysit my grandchildren on Tues. so when I came home at 6 pm Littlebird looked and acted noticeably better. Still can't trust the other birds near her though. Tommorrow I can be home all day so I'll try supervised visiting. I guess empathy is strictly a human characteristic as all these wonderful posts demonstrate. Thanks
 

WingedVictory

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Hey guys, Baytril belongs to this same class as Cipro but differ slightly in its molecular makeup. It is like comparing Celebrex to Meloxicam, both are similar but a bit different.

Meds are hard to give to all birds, sometimes it is better to have the meds compounded so the potency is the same but the volume is smaller. Most all of our birds like apple flavoring in there meds.

Probiotics like ML mentioned are always welcomed. Here I give probiotics while giving antibiotics as the antibiotic has enough potency to eliminate some of the probiotic. In my opinion it is a head start program on restoring good bacteria to their system.

gary
 
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