• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Lovebird Hybrids

Zara

❀♡ My birds are responsible for 99% of my typos ♡❀
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
1/8/18
Messages
27,595
Location
Reino de España
**For information and education purposes only, cross-breeding to create hybrids is not recommended**

Hybridization in lovebirds, from the Agapornis genus.

This genus includes the personata group (AKA eye-ring) (Personatus, / Lilianae / Fischeri / Nigrigenis), the transitional group (Swindernianus and Roseicollis) and the sexually dimorphic group (Taranta, Canus and Pullarius).

A hybrid is created whenever two different species successfully breed. That offspring will not belong to any species and is therefore a hybrid.

Breeding a Roseicollis (Peach faced) with any of the eye-ring species will produce sterile hybrids of intermediate phenotype. This is because the personata group are from an evolutionary line that is quite distant from the Roseicollis.
Respectively, by breeding two eye-ring birds from different species (For example Fischeri x Personatus), fertile offspring will be produced. From there, these hybrids can be bred again with other species as the hybrids now no longer pertain to any species.

This has been exploited by breeders to bring mutations from one species to another. This is called transmutation.
Ever wondered where the Blue Fischeri came from? The Blue mutation was originally only found in Personatus however a Ficheri x Personatus hybrid was created, and then from there bred for generations with only Fischeri until subjects phenotypically undistinguishable from Fischeri were created. Theoretically, these birds cannot be considered genetically pure.

Transmutation leads to a genetic contamination of the species.


Prof. William Dilger carried out studies on Roseicollis x Fischeri hybrids (the hybrids were sterile), here´s a summary of his findings when studying nesting strategies: Lovebird Behavior: Nature or Nurture? | ScienceBlogs
Dilger, William C. “The Behavior of Lovebirds.” Scientific American, vol. 206, no. 1, 1962, pp. 88–99., www.jstor.org/stable/24937198


As much as creating hybrids is not recommended, if you come across a hybrid lovebird in need of a home, there is no reason not to take him/her in and fill their life with love. Just be aware that this bird is a hybrid and if fertile, should not be allowed to reproduce. Also, be mindful of the study by Prof. Dilger.


If you do not know what you are looking for to distinguish which birds are hybrids, this link will be very helpful: Hybrid Lovebirds – The African Lovebird Society of Australia Inc


Here´s a (blog?) post I came across questioning many aspect to hybrids incl. the fertility of Roseicollis hybrids (it is not dated): Hybridization


Further information:
Hybridization
FAQ: How can we differentiate (the hybrid) sable phenotypes and opaline in blue Agapornis fischeri? – Dirk Van den Abeele
 

Leih

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/1/18
Messages
2,899
Location
Ohio
Real Name
Leih Pearson
Interesting!
 

Leih

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/1/18
Messages
2,899
Location
Ohio
Real Name
Leih Pearson
Yall talking about me? (yes I did ... It was her hatch day.)
 

Attachments

Zara

❀♡ My birds are responsible for 99% of my typos ♡❀
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
1/8/18
Messages
27,595
Location
Reino de España

Karnkate

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
4/6/14
Messages
1,295
Location
Bangkok, TH
Real Name
Karnkate (Lookkaew/Crystal)
So my baby is a distant descendant of a certain hybrid? S/he’s a violet clear pied. I don’t know if lovebirds are similar to roses, where a violet gene is different from a blue gene, or are their violets just a darker shade of blue, but your thread does make me raise my eyebrows about him/her.
 

expressmailtome

Ripping up the road
Administrator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/15/10
Messages
47,738
Real Name
Matthew
So my baby is a distant descendant of a certain hybrid? S/he’s a violet clear pied. I don’t know if lovebirds are similar to roses, where a violet gene is different from a blue gene, or are their violets just a darker shade of blue, but your thread does make me raise my eyebrows about him/her.
In lovebirds, they are two separate mutations.
 

Serin

Sprinting down the street
Joined
3/18/18
Messages
459
Location
Indiana
I am not against hybridization in lovebirds because these birds are being raised entirely as companion or hobby animals and serve no conservation purpose.
They will never be used in reintroduction into the wild.
So if you want to cross, it's not harming the wild populations.
 

Zara

❀♡ My birds are responsible for 99% of my typos ♡❀
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
1/8/18
Messages
27,595
Location
Reino de España
What about the confusion caused to said hybrid?
Did you read the summary of the study? The hybrid bird took 3 years to figure out how to carry nesting material to the nest - that´s 6 times longer than a lovebird.
You may argue ¨well the hybrid will be my pet, he won´t breed¨ and that is irrelevant, the confusion and stress of learning would still exist, regardless of whether they were allowed to breed after all their efforts or not.
What else are they confused about?
For professional breeders to create hybrids to sell is silly because they aren´t worth as much money.
And to breed confused hybrid birds as a hobby is just plain unfair.

I do stand by what I said, that should anyone come across a hybrid lovebird in need of a home, then they should not be dismissed simply because they are a hybrid.
 

DoubleTake

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
5/31/17
Messages
1,735
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Real Name
Brian
Think the issue of hybrids is that unsuspecting pet owners buy them not knowing they are being sold as hybrids. Even worse if it is from a breeder but often pet owners who have created hybrids sell off the offspring not knowing what they had a hand in creating and the cycle continues. I do agree that these hybrids can become great pets but the buyer should have the right to know what they are getting. I dont know how many posts I see on Facebook of people posting their birds not knowing it is a hybrid. This doesn't change how much they love them but I'm sure they would have liked to know what they bought up front.

On that note, not sure why one would ever willing want to create a possible "mule", along with higher risk of behavior or health issues.
 

Leih

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/1/18
Messages
2,899
Location
Ohio
Real Name
Leih Pearson
I want to contribute to this, but my brain won't science right now. I'm inundated with chemistry homework and Trump tariffs. My basic thought is that if breeding for certain colors (which hybridization seems to be) affects how a bird thinks and behaves as a bird, then that is silly and not very ethical. Makes me think of dumb people that keep a lion as a "pet" as if their house has enough hunting opportunities for them.

Side note, Aoife hasn't done any nesting types of behaviors, but I also don't give her paper. She has never shown interest in paper so I figure why bother, she has tons of other stuff to chew.
 

Leih

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/1/18
Messages
2,899
Location
Ohio
Real Name
Leih Pearson
Think the issue of hybrids is that unsuspecting pet owners buy them not knowing they are being sold as hybrids. Even worse if it is from a breeder but often pet owners who have created hybrids sell off the offspring not knowing what they had a hand in creating and the cycle continues. I do agree that these hybrids can become great pets but the buyer should have the right to know what they are getting. I dont know how many posts I see on Facebook of people posting their birds not knowing it is a hybrid. This doesn't change how much they love them but I'm sure they would have liked to know what they bought up front.

On that note, not sure why one would ever willing want to create a possible "mule", along with higher risk of behavior or health issues.
Exactly. Hybridization always seems to express negative phenotypes.
 

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,181
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
On that note, not sure why one would ever willing want to create a possible "mule", along with higher risk of behavior or health issues.
The majority of hybrids are fertile. I mean, we could say that all green cheek conures and maroon bellied conures within captivity are hybrids as there's evidence that states that they have naturally hybridize in the wild... and this isn't even going into the different subspecies of each species... much like eclectus parrots. Many people are for keeping the eclectus subspecies pure, others could care less. Well, if we are talking on a subspecies level, then many conures, senegals, perhaps even amazons and cockatoos are hybrids simply because breeders didn't keep the subspecies pure.

Conure x macaw hybrids are fertile

No clue about conure x amazon or conure x caique hybrids though... or Pyrrhura x large conure hybrids.

Australian Ringneck x Rosella hybrids are sterile but no clue about Kakariki x Rosella

No clue about Rainbow Lorikeet x King Parrot hybrids... or Timneh African Grey x Cape Parrot hybrids... or Cockatiel x Galah

There are plenty of other hybrids out there though that are in fact fertile. The many different lorikeet hybrids, conure hybrids, macaw hybrids, etc (kept within similar/same species type - i.e. sun x nanday conures)



Side note, Aoife hasn't done any nesting types of behaviors, but I also don't give her paper. She has never shown interest in paper so I figure why bother, she has tons of other stuff to chew.
If it's true that Blue Fischer's are hybrids, then it's quite likely that "all" hybrid traits of Masked Lovebirds have been bred out - minus the mutation. There are breeders out there that actually believe that after so many generations of breeding back to one species, the hybrids could be consider "pure". Even if you get a non-blue fischers, it's still likely has hybrid parentage due to that blue gene that may not have been passed down, so it would be hard to say for sure if you really have a pure fischers or not.



I know in Australia, they've been hybridizing indian ringnecks with alexandrians to get mutations into the alexandrians. True mutations *DO* exist in the alexandrian species, just not in Australia... hence, hybridization.
 
Top