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Judy's visit & questions

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Tangle Elf

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Judy's visit was good and bad (as always). As seems to be typical of her visits, we're waiting for lab results and hoping for the better of the bad possible outcomes. The good news is that Judy's asper is not as active as it was. There are spores in her nares, but nothing active immediately present. She's still having nasal discharge, but it's not as frequent. She's getting better and I'm happy about that. I'm in the same boat as everyone else that has a bird with asper where I'm not sure if we should be pushing harder to get rid of it completely or if it's just time for patience. I don't know if any of the medications available for asper kill the spores or not. I think that the key to the spores is just keeping her immune system strong, but with her other nasal problems, that is challenging. Judy also has pseudomonas. We're waiting to see if a month and a half of treatment has eliminated it. If not, that's probably what's causing the mucus and I'll keep giving her shots ever day. If the pseudomonas is gone, then it's either the asper causing symptoms or something else going on in her sinuses. I'm concerned that there's more junk stuck up there allowing infections to breed. I'm also concerned that the vet is concerned about the way some of the tissue looks. I also want to know what it is we're dealing with as far as the damaged structure of her sinuses. In short, I want to get a CT scan. I doesn't seem warranted. It's expensive and would make a pretty significant dent in our budget. She's eating well and is very active. Other than occasional mucus coming out of her nose (about 2 days at a time, two times a month) she doesn't appear sick...if you can overlook the fact that her nares are ginormous and you can see through them. Logically, there is no real reason for it. She's getting better. So why is my gut screaming to do the CT scan? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

In short, my questions are a) does anyone have documentation showing that any of the antifungals to treat asper are effective against spores? & b) is there anything else I should be considering as far as the CT scan?
 

merlinsmom13

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I wouldnt know how to answer your questions. Its really alot to think about. What do you hope the CT will accomplish? Do you suspect maybe tumors in her sinus cavity? If the CT does give you answers, will any conditions found be treatable? In other words, will the results do anything other than solve her puzzling symptoms. I'm glad she seems so much better, I know you'll make the right decision whatever you decide. :hug8:
 

Tangle Elf

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I wouldnt know how to answer your questions. Its really alot to think about. What do you hope the CT will accomplish? Do you suspect maybe tumors in her sinus cavity? If the CT does give you answers, will any conditions found be treatable? In other words, will the results do anything other than solve her puzzling symptoms. I'm glad she seems so much better, I know you'll make the right decision whatever you decide. :hug8:
There is tissue in her sinuses that my vet thinks looks like it could be a tumor. If we do a CT scan, I believe he will do a biopsy at the same time. There's also the possibility that she still has rhinoliths in her sinuses that are making a breeding ground for infection making them hard to treat. We found the asper looking for a cause to her neurological symptoms, but it's possible that they have a different cause. As far as how treatable those things might be, if it's a tumor, I don't even want to imagine what the cost could be. If it's a blockage, it may be possible to flush it out, or it may also cost a small fortune for a surgery. Either one has the possibility of being treatable, but also the possibility of not being treatable. Judy hasn't had any new neurological symptoms since she started treatment, so it doesn't seem that anything is getting worse.
 

webchirp

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Oh gosh poor Judy! If it were me, I think I would want to know. Would not having the CT cause you to second guess yourself at every change (if) for the worse? I'm very much for going with proactive versus reactive. I also understand budget contraints. Would the CT make it clear that there are no items still stuck in there? :hug8:
 

Lovebird Lady

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Oh gosh poor Judy! If it were me, I think I would want to know. Would not having the CT cause you to second guess yourself at every change (if) for the worse? I'm very much for going with proactive versus reactive. I also understand budget contraints. Would the CT make it clear that there are no items still stuck in there? :hug8:
I'm of the same position as Chandra on this one. I tend to "grab the bull by the horns" before the "bull grabs me" in every situation. If your vet believes that a CT scan would give you clear results that would enable you to make an informed decision on one course of action (treatment) over another, and that this decision would significantly impact on Judy's health, then I would go as far as to borrow the money for the Scan; otherwise you'll be "chasing your tail in circles" or "spinning your wheels going nowhere fast" being reactive as opposed to proactive, as Chandra said, and possibly wasting precious time in the course of solving Judy's health issues. Your "gut screaming to do the CT scan" is something I can relate to, being a perfectionist myself, especially when dealing with health issues. I, too, understand that financial contraints can delay good intentions, and you may have to weigh that against the fact that you can afford to delay for some time, given Judy's current health improvements. I very much hope that you come to a decision you feel comfortable with, and that Judy only gets better from here on in :hug8:
 

Merlie

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Send a PM to HankMacaw .. if anyone has the data you're looking for, it would be her.
 

Anne & Gang

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:hug8:
 

65sunnyday

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If affordable, I would get the CT scan, too, for the above reasons, keeping in mind that there must be enough left to have any surgery required. You'll do the best you can & make the best decisions for Judy, I know:hug8:
 

Milo

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The thing that would worry me about the CT is the sedation. If her breathing is at all compromised that can present safety concerns. I'm not sure if the procedure is the same as rabbits, where they sedate them but are able to place them in a tube rather than more restraint, so they wouldn't have to knock her out completely. However, if something isn't squaring with you, or you aren't satisfied with explanations you're getting, then talk about the CT. With my kiddos I want to know and I want to know yesterday, which is why Milo ended up having the procedure that he did. Is there something that your vet isn't answering that would warrant a second opinion? He/she should be able to give you relevant research or articles, or even just know if it will treat the asper spores.
 

wonderb

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Oh do I ever feel your pain! One day I feel like everything is under control and the next I feel like nothing is working and I'm totally failing her. It is hard dealing with the unknown.

I'm not sure about the CT scan. Back when we suspected asper but had no official diagnoses, my vet had suggested sending Olive to Madison to a vet that could either do a CT scan or scope her, both of which could help us get answers. Since you already have a diagnosis, I'm not sure a CT scan would really do anything. I know the ampho B is the only medicine that truly kills asper directly. Perhaps nebulizing her with that would be more effective? Is she on a probiotic?
 

Hankmacaw

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There is tissue in her sinuses that my vet thinks looks like it could be a tumor. If we do a CT scan, I believe he will do a biopsy at the same time. There's also the possibility that she still has rhinoliths in her sinuses that are making a breeding ground for infection making them hard to treat. We found the asper looking for a cause to her neurological symptoms, but it's possible that they have a different cause. As far as how treatable those things might be, if it's a tumor, I don't even want to imagine what the cost could be. If it's a blockage, it may be possible to flush it out, or it may also cost a small fortune for a surgery. Either one has the possibility of being treatable, but also the possibility of not being treatable. Judy hasn't had any new neurological symptoms since she started treatment, so it doesn't seem that anything is getting worse.
Hank, whose primary issue was Generalized Chronic Asper, never had a CAT scan or MRI. He did have several (6/7 laparoscopies) and I highly recommend them over a CAT/MRI. The reason I favor a laparoscopy is that the Dr. can see exactly where the Asper colonies are and lavage them as he is rooting around in the bird. Jasper had a CAT scan and a MRI for a still undiagnosed upper eye/ear/sinus issue - we just live with that one, since there is still no diagnosis and no treatment.

Had Dr. Driggers not performed a laparoscopy and lavaged his abdominal cavity with Amphotericin B, he would have been dead 10 years ago. He is still dead, but we had 10 wonderful years together.

OMG, I miss him so much.
ML
 

Merlie

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Hank, whose primary issue was Generalized Chronic Asper, never had a CAT scan or MRI. He did have several (6/7 laparoscopies) and I highly recommend them over a CAT/MRI. The reason I favor a laparoscopy is that the Dr. can see exactly where the Asper colonies are and lavage them as he is rooting around in the bird. Jasper had a CAT scan and a MRI for a still undiagnosed upper eye/ear/sinus issue - we just live with that one, since there is still no diagnosis and no treatment.

Had Dr. Driggers not performed a laparoscopy and lavaged his abdominal cavity with Amphotericin B, he would have been dead 10 years ago. He is still dead, but we had 10 wonderful years together.

OMG, I miss him so much.
ML

:hug8::hug8::hug8:
 
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