• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

It got worse.

Marvel_ous

Sprinting down the street
Joined
7/11/18
Messages
473
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Trinity
We moved Marvel (20 year old Black Headed Caique) to a family room so she could be around people. I haven't heard of a single case where moving a bird to a family room makes behavior worse but well,, it's happened.

She now doesn't care if people are present or not, she screams all day. She's not acting fearful or anxious, she's playing with toys and in general going about her day but just screaming. I've heard screaming is tiring for parrots but apparently not her as she's been going at it for three hours now. People have been in and out and she'll scream even if you're interacting with her. How do you get a bird to stop screaming if they will literally scream while eating a treat? She doesn't care what or who's around her, or what she's doing.

We can't give her back to her former owner for two weeks. I don't want to leave her alone in a room during that time but this scream is ear-piercing and I can't take this level of noise for two weeks. This is not normal parrot noise, it is the same squeal-like scream every 5-10 seconds for hours on end. She has everything she needs or could want and screams through all of it. I also can't handle her right now as she's hyper hormonal and has bitten me every time I've tried to pick her up. Again, displays no fear and will sit on my hand for about 5 seconds before just reaching down and nailing me. She will hold the bars and proceed pin and squeak nonstop if I'm in sight, although today she started screaming instead. I've never seen or heard of anything like her and I just don't know what to do.

Again, she does not care if we are there or not and is not quiet for long enough for me to reward it. Nothing we've tried has gotten her to quiet down long enough to give her a treat- when I tried she just started screaming as she was eating the nut. She's only petted on her head and neck, she gets about 13-15 hours of sleep a night, no sugar or fruit in her diet (switched her from Zupreem to Roudybush, we use nuts as treats and she gets fresh chop without fruit or sweet produce in the mornings), no toys or anything she can rub herself on. She is molting, idk if that makes a difference. She's been loud the whole time we've had her but it's just slowly getting worse. Every day she has a new problem I don't know how to deal with. I don't know what to do until she can go back home to her previous owner.
 

April

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
3/21/10
Messages
23,893
I am sorry that your dealing with this,I went through something very similar with Tobias but not that bad. If I was in the room interacting with him is the only time he would be quiet. His record for non stop screaming was 3 hours so I absolutely know what your going through :(. Will she let you give her a misting or spray shower through the cage? If I took Tobias into the shower or if he took a bath in his water bowl I could get about a 45 min break while he dried and preened.
@Monica @Irishj9 @Laurie
 

Clueless

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
11/3/12
Messages
24,021
When Secret screams, we leave the room.

When the noise she makes is acceptable to us (like a whistle), we come back.
 

Marvel_ous

Sprinting down the street
Joined
7/11/18
Messages
473
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Trinity
We're doing that but it continues to worsen. She doesn't seem to care if we're present, but I can't think of why else she would be screaming. I gave her a shower earlier today (usually I can handle her early in the mornings) but it was cut short when she fell and panicked, I'll try again with a spray bottle inside the cage.
I'm trying to go through the list of common reasons for screaming.
- I don't think it's fear, again she's still acting confident and going about her day
- Definitely not for attention, she does it regardless of if we're interacting with her or not.
- Might be stress from changing environments but if that's it why would it be getting worse with time??
- Her setup is large and has lots of toys that I know she enjoys as she plays with them often, boredom is unlikely.
- Her diet does not encourage hormones, she's on Roudybush maintenance and doesn't get fruit or large amounts of fat/nuts. Her chop is kale-based with bell peppers, broccoli, and oats being the most prominent ingredients
- She is molting but I didn't think molting was correlated with noise. Almost certainly hormones but I don't know what's exaggerating them or what I can do to reduce them.

We decided to just put her to bed early so we could get a break from the nonstop screeching, she's in her small sleep cage in the basement and finally quiet
 

Sparkles!

Rollerblading along the road
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/9/20
Messages
1,890
Okay, hold on. Take a breath. I think I might need a breath too.

This is the handicapped caique you just adopted, right? The foster-to-adopt?

I’m concerned with you saying that she’s making everyone in the house miserable and that you can’t give her back for 2 weeks. What do you mean by that?

All of my years in fostering and rescue birds has taught me that if everyone in the household is miserable- that means everyone *including* the bird.

We have members her in Colorado who are close to you, but if this situation is getting dire I can drive down from northern Wyoming in a pinch if needed.

This does not sound like a good situation for Marvel to be in. This does not sound like a good situation for you and your parents to be in. What can we do to help you and Marvel?
 

Irishj9

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/25/12
Messages
3,672
Real Name
JP
I've never had a caique scream like that. If the bird is eating and playing happily while screaming, then it looks like you are dealing with an ingrained beheaviour which may take time to eradicate
 

Laurie

The Best Bird Toys
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/15/13
Messages
4,098
Location
USA
Real Name
Laurie
What noise exactly are we talking about? Can you post a video? I can think of two very different noises that mean two very different things? Is it contact calling or more of an alarm noise. A video would really help.

Also the biting you describe concerns me. You'll need to really take a few steps back and deal with that differently as well. In my opinion, you should not be handling her if she is biting like that. You should train her to step up on a stick or target to where you want her to go. Let her settle in and gain her trust before trying again. She may have a habit of biting hands and you need to teach her new habits with you rather than let her old habit become more ingrained

Either way it can all be very unnerving. If you haven't had her long then it may just take some time. There may be some things you change that will help but settling in may take some time.
 

Marvel_ous

Sprinting down the street
Joined
7/11/18
Messages
473
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Trinity
Thank you all for the responses, lots of things being asked and lots of things to answer so sorry if this is a full blown essay

@Sparkles!
Her former owner left to go out of state yesterday morning before the behaviors she's been exhibiting really started to worsen. She gets back on the 5th. Her former owner is by no means bad and it wasn't an urgent situation for her to get out of, she definitely cares for her birds well. She was rehoming Marvel to us due to a new baby and not feeling like she has enough time for three birds. (She was considering rehoming her other caique who is not as tame or cuddly but much more predictable, but we were only in a position to take on one bird)
I'm beginning to think yesterday may have been an off day (a very off day), she's calmer today and while she still screams it's only when people leave, when they re-enter the room, or when she can't see me specifically. She'll scream if anyone leaves even if I'm still in the room with her but quiets down pretty fast (provided I don't leave)
My family's not verbally expressing annoyance for the most part but yesterday was hard for everyone.
My dad in particular seems to take Marvel's problems as a challenge and is determined to keep giving her time and working with her but honestly unless she undergoes some drastic behavior changes in regard to the screaming she's just not compatible with our family.
At the moment this is still a temporary thing as far as the former owner's concerned, I don't know how she would feel about us giving her bird to someone she doesn't know (even if we know and trust y'all) so I'm hesitant to take that route.
She's better today although that may just be her regular morning "good bird" thing as her behavior is more tolerable and she's handleable in the mornings and gets worse as the day goes on. I'm still interacting with her, training her (boy does she love to target), and we're doing our best to keep her day as "normal" as possible despite the struggles we're having.

@Irishj9
She only started screaming while doing normal bird things yesterday, up until then she would only chew cardboard near her favorite perch while screaming. It remains to be seen whether it will continue or if yesterday was an exception.

@Laurie
It is a flock call but under certain circumstances she will do it while people are right next to her. It sounds like a very very loud squeaky door. She also has a shorter beep of the same volume and pitch that she'll do regardless of circumstances, these two noises are what we consider screaming as all her other vocalizations are much lower in volume. She will do a quiet version that i've learned means she's acting more hormonal at that moment.
Giving her space is difficult with her screaming and how eager she is to interact but we're trying. She is target trained and I use that to get her into and out of her cage and travel cage but she is fearful of handheld perches. It's the only thing we've found that she actually displays fear towards which makes me think it was a mode of transportation in a previous home and she was dropped or something. She's not crazy anxious around it but will flatten her feathers and retreat if I present it to her and ask for a step up. We've only had her a week and a half so we are trying to be patient but it's tough and it seems like her issues are worsening with time, not improving. I'll see if I can send a video when I get back from work.
 

Momof3litt

Sprinting down the street
Joined
7/22/21
Messages
514
So you've had her for about 10 days now? Was she in her former home for her full 20 years?

I am no expert, but my read on this is that she has just been moved into a new, more public area. There are a variety of individuals she doesn't really know. Maybe her flock is there too? She is calling for her flock and none are answering. She does not yet consider your family to be "her" flock.

It's kind of like starting a toddler at a new daycare and having them cry at drop-off and/or transitions every day for months, until out of "nowhere*", they stop. Given how intelligent and complex parrot thought is, I would not be surprised if this behavior persists for a while and then stops. I would keep a very simple and gentle but consistent routine with her so she comes to learn what to expect from you. If having her call all day is unlivable temporarily, maybe return her to the quieter area of your home?

*It's not "nowhere", but usually beyond their ability to verbalize.
 

Laurie

The Best Bird Toys
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/15/13
Messages
4,098
Location
USA
Real Name
Laurie
Thank you for the reply, it is helpful.

As was already mentioned by others this whole situation is very new to Marvel. Contact calling is very, very normal for birds. And she may not even be looking for you at this point she may be looking for the people that she was used to live with and the other birds that she was used to seeing. I believe this could definitely go on for weeks. It certainly not misbehavior and all you can do is let her get to know you and accept you as her flock. She is most likely grieving and will be looking for her former flock until she is satisfied that they are not going to respond. It's kind of sad actually, but birds are adaptable and eventually she will adjust.

While flock calling can be a bit unnerving It isn't what I would truly call screaming. This of course is just a minor point but caiques do have a noise they make that I would consider screaming and it's much more annoying than a contact call. They usually make the other noise when something is wrong or they are very excited in a nervous kind of way. Mine will do it if one of the other birds gets out of its cage, food is empty, water is empty there's something weird happening in the bird room or anything that is generally amiss. It is a constant noise not an intermittent beep. They can keep it up for as long as they feel the need. But typically it is stopped by fixing which whatever situation is unnerving them. This of course is a situation where they have vocalizing in a normal way not a learned behavior that you might classify as misbehavior.

As for sitting on your hand for 5 seconds and then deciding all the sudden to bite you, I have one that does this too. She has lived with me all her life and for the first year and half she never did it. My conclusion is that she doesn't truly want to be on my hand. For whatever reason she was enticed to step up but doesn't really want to be there and so she gets overly excited and bites really hard. My solution has been to not handle her with my bare hands. She is desensitized to towels and very comfortable around them so I just wrap a dish towel around my hand and let her step up, or I let her step up on a perch. She really doesn't like to step on the perch so it takes quite a bit of coaxing and some tasty treats. She will target back to her cage so I don't really have to pick her up. I have noticed particularly in her case that she really is a loner and prefers to watch from afar rather than be right with people. I don't know if that's the case with your bird but that's been my experience with mine. She is nearly 9 years old and like I said I really don't pick her up with my bare hand. There are definitely times when she would step up and not bite me but I'm just a little gunshy about it because I've been bitten so many times. So the current arrangement of not picking her up with my bare hands works pretty well for both of us. I don't know how that would work for you and your situation and with your family but it works okay for us because I have 10 birds and if one of them doesn't want to step up on my hand that's fine with me because I have the others who are happy to do so.
 
Last edited:

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,253
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
It sounds like you've got a handful! And it also sounds like you are doing everything that you can to help her!


Can you... play some white noise? Anything that may be calming?

What about... encouraging more foraging activities? You can use eggshell cartons, paper towel holders, small river gravel.... heck, even a muffin tin! You can start out easy, putting food and treats on the bottom and covering the items up a little with toys, crinkly paper, or other items. Clean river gravel - large enough that it can't be swallowed, just mix in food, treats, small toys into a container with the gravel and top it with some more treats to teach her how to 'dig' to find food. In some cases, you could even use a small paper cup and tie it to a perch and put a reward in the cup. Make the rope-tie short in the beginning and slowly lengthen it to increase difficulty. (do under supervision) Or you could get paper muffin cups and put food in these, twist close and viola! Or simply covering the food dish with paper and putting a large hole in the center - slowly making the hole smaller and smaller. Maybe it's getting rid of one big food dish and putting 5-6 smaller food dishes around the cage! Be creative!




It can, unfortunately, take several weeks or even months for older animals to adapt to a new home. It's up to everyone in your home to decide is that is something you are capable of handling or not.
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,814
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
I agree with @Laurie . She is contact calling and doesn't want you. She is suddenly alone and wants to find the other birds and people!
 

Marvel_ous

Sprinting down the street
Joined
7/11/18
Messages
473
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Trinity
Thanks for all the advice, everyone! I'll be trying all of it, she's a bird who is very open to new activities and things (This bird jumped into a new carrier unprompted just because she wanted to surf on the towel inside) so nothing hurts to try.

So we made some progress today, we learned that somehow the spot where her cage is right now is just,, wrong for some reason. Why? no clue, but it's definitely location that's exaggerating the screaming so we're going to move her back up to my room. She was in her larger travel cage for a while today so my family could move her from room to room while I was gone and a pattern's started to emerge, she's much quieter and happier anywhere in the house that's not That Spot. She'll only contact call for a short period if left alone and doesn't do her shorter beep nearly as often. We'll move her back up to my room where she seemed more comfortable soon, and continue working on target training, perch training, and other things that will allow her to have more interaction with my family as I can't be there all the time (but I'm also the only one who can touch her at all due to the aforementioned biting and unpredictability.)

The adjustment period thing is comforting, I do think we'll wait till the end of these two weeks before making a final decision as her behavior may improve. She does not fear towels so I'll use that if I need to move her until she's past this weird adjustment period. Right now she's just pretty unpredictable and her mood changes fast even for a caique, she doesn't bite every time but yeah, it's often enough and hard enough to make me a bit wary.

Aand hormones season is coming on, these next two weeks will be a ride but I feel like we're finally starting to make connections and figure out solutions that will let us get through it. I still do think at this point it will be best for her to go back to her former owner at the end of it- I'm not ready for a bird as complex as she is, I can admit that freely with my struggles so far. But I'll do my best while I have her and keep working with her and trying to improve the time she has with me.

After she goes back I'm going to wait until summer's begun and hormone season has passed before trying again since I really don't need that interfering with another attempt at rescuing, until then i'd really like to focus my energy onto training dogs at a local shelter and get some more hands-on experience with problem-solving and positive reinforcement with an "easier" species. I still love this bird and my experience with her hasn't dissuaded me from keeping birds but it has shown me real life is never going to be like what you read on a page, and I do not have the practical experience yet for a bird like her to work out long-term.

I managed to end up in a really unique and lucky situation with her in which it is safe and the door is open for her to go back to her former owner if things didn't work out. If I were to fail and struggle like this anyways I'm glad it was here and now where it is easy and accessible for me to do the best thing for Marvel once I learn what that is. Two weeks albiet isn't the most ideal but I know in most rescue scenarios that door isn't there at all. This has been and hopefully will continue to be a great learning experience, and who knows? maybe behavior will change and I'll end up wanting to keep her. For now that isn't the case, but again I will continue doing my very best for her until this short period passes and I can re-evaluate the situation.
 

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,253
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
Your entire family can work on target training and even station training with her! If you do it right, she can't bite! ;) Work on the behaviors *THROUGH* the cage bars!

And honestly, she sounds like she might be easier to train than my adult husky! :roflmao: I've had him for 3 years, he detests most kibbles I've tried with him to the point of literal weight loss... and have only found *TWO* things he's willing to work for.... :bash:Thankfully, he's not a bad dog! Just... infuriating at times! (I also have a husky puppy.... he's *SO* much easier to work with! so far!)


They do say that with rescue dogs, it takes 3-3-3. First three days, they feel overwhelmed. After 3 weeks, they start to settle in and learn routine, starting to show their personality. After three months, they feel comfortable.

I don't know how birds "fit" into that... as they may take shorter or longer to settle. It is hard to really judge based on the individual animal... but that said, it is great if you realize that you aren't quite ready to take on that challenge and she has a safe place to go back to. Depending on the animal and how they are raised can mean that it's easier to get a young one without training or an older one that hopefully has some sort of training.


Through my own journey of animals, I believe that every animal should be treated like a dog! I don't mean in the sense of training... re: alpha/dominance theory... but everything else! From Early Neurological Stimulation to socialization!

re: socialization


Add in some basic training, crate training (yes, for birds, too!) or even advanced training as well as mental enrichment... I believe many animals would be happier and healthier! Dogs, cats, birds or anything else!



The more I learn about training, the more I'd rather have a young animal to work with than an adult with issues. I've had animals my entire life, and own a cockatiel for over 20 years now. She's not my oldest, but the longest one I've had! (since she was 5 months old) I've also had *many* second hand, plus, animals through the years - particularly birds. My adult dog and my cat have both had previous owners. (I am my adult dog's 5th owner...) I don't regret my adults in the least, but the behaviors between a well raised animal (not saying I'm fantastic at raising them!) vs one that wasn't raised as well seems like night and day almost.

Working with animals that have a past though can help us grow as well.
 

~Drini~

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
2/22/14
Messages
1,679
Location
Maryland
Real Name
Ana
2 years ago I moved my 18-year-old GCC from the house he had spent 5 years in to an apartment in another state. He normally doesn't scream, but when I moved him he began screaming non-stop. Seemingly he was really super stressed out about being in a new place without most of his old house members. He'd go about his normal activities and just scream. It drove my roommate and I insane. I tried everything -- more toys, more veggies, more interaction, ambient sounds, etc. It went on for weeks and eventually stopped when I got him another GCC as a cage mate, who he bonded with, and then he finally calmed down.

2 weeks is really nothing for a bird that is 20 years old and is used to her way of life. The screaming and the biting will all improve with time, especially if she did not display this behavior in her old home.
 

Marvel_ous

Sprinting down the street
Joined
7/11/18
Messages
473
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Trinity
We moved her back up to my room and WOW, instant improvement in every regard. Perhaps the busy family room is just too much for her at this time? She still does her beep when left alone but we're making progress in replacing it with a loud, dramatic kissy noise she does that we can still hear across the house and respond to, but is not nearly as ear-piercing. She doesn't beep constantly anymore. She's still pretty hormonal and molting (just grumpy and I can't normally handle her) but she targets wonderfully and I don't have a problem getting her into and out of her cage. She still won't step up on a perch but will happily walk to where I need her to go.

She played directly with me for the first time yesterday (until now she's only played with toys in her cage), just acted like a silly, playful caique and showed me a side of her personality I haven't gotten to see yet. We're still struggling, but I'm seeing improvement and there is hope. Keeping her isn't 100% in the cards with my family yet but we have another week until giving her back is an option and I have a feeling more change is coming. My sisters love her almost as much as I do and like I said before my dad's determined to keep her if at all possible (she likes him too, it's cute to watch them interact). My mom's not as big a fan but she's patient and willing to give me time to work through this.
Just letting folks know who don't know me, I am still living at home but I'm older and have a car, emergency vet fund, and whatnot- I don't rely on my parents for anything related to her they just have to be able to put up with being in the same house as her, haha

For now I'm just going to keep doing what I've been doing, playing and interacting with her, trying to get her energy somewhat spent when I am with her, and continuing educating my siblings and parents on what to do when I'm not there to keep training going. Now that we know it's a flock call replacing the beeping has sped up significantly! We started ignoring the beeping and calling back when she does her kiss. Hopefully the need to contact call every 5 seconds (not an exaggeration, I time it every now and then and it's between 5-10 seconds) will go away with time and when her molting and hormones subside a bit she'll be able to spend more time out with the family too.

I've actually got a floor stand for her in the works (Just PVC but i'll add plenty of space for climbing and toys, I know this bird will Not sit still on a plain stand) that will also make it easier for her to spend time out with us, since right now she just has her small tabletop training/shower stand.

Her former owner got her as an older rescue, she had her for 6 years and neither of us know much about her history beyond that. I could be her 3rd home or her 7th, no real way to tell as far as I know.
 

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,253
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
It's great that you were able to figure out a setup that works better for her!

As I mentioned, look into foraging.

This is an example of how we can use enrichment to calm birds down and teach them to accept independent play.



Foraging ideas

Parrot Enrichment Book Download (check out this entire website, too!)


 
Top