Is Bird Sand Necessary ?

[Naturalst]

Hello everyone again with a new topic

I read some articles in the forum about not giving sand to birds. Bird sand is used a lot in my country. It is said to be necessary for the digestive system of birds. It is recommended on the grounds that the sand is almost like the teeth of the birds and contributes to the digestive system. Many global brands also have bird litter. For example Versele Laga. My question is this. Is there an article about giving or not giving sand to birds? My male parakeet loves aniseed bird litter very much and sometimes even tries to take a sand bath in it.
I am waiting for your comments.

 

[Naturalst]

I would like to add that "grit" sand is recommended, not crystal sand. Crystal sand is not recommended because it is too small in size and can get into the trachea.

 

[Mizzely]

The short of it: no, parrots do not need grit. They remove the shell from the seeds they eat, which eliminates the need for suggestive aid. Insoluble grit can lead to impaction.

Just because a company sells it doesn't mean it's safe.

Grit Does NOT Belong In A Parrot’s Diet

Congo african grey A question came up the other day on the Facebook page asking whether we are supposed to use grit in our parrot’s diet. I have talked about this in posts before, but this question is important enough that it justifies another mention. Everyone needs to understand this topic so...

birdtricksstore.com

Picky Parrot Webinar - Grit – Lafeber® Pet Birds

Do parrots need grit with their food? Either mineral (sand/gravel) or animal sourced (cuttlebone, eggshell, oyster, snail shell etc) and how often?

lafeber.com

A Bit About Grit: Do Birds Need It? - Birds'N'Ways

Do birds need grit? This is not only a common question of concern to bird owners, but a source of disagreement as well. Understanding what grit is, its

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[Rebel]

You will only get opinions here. Even “professionals “ dont have a strait answer. Supposedly, if your bird shells the seed, no need for grit. If grit it offered and they decide to eat it…. Im not sure if there's a down side.

 

[tka]

Birds which swallow seeds whole, like chickens, canaries and finches, do need grit. The grit breaks up the seeds' shells inside the bird's gizzard. Interestingly, there is some evidence that some species of dinosaur consumed rocks (called gastroliths), possiblyfor similar reasons.

Parrots hull seeds, i.e. shell the seeds with their beaks. They only consume the kernel. As such, there is no need for the bird to consume grit to break up the seed shell inside the gizzard, because the shell hasn't been consumed in the first place.

There is a downside to parrots consuming grit: it can lead to impaction in the crop or gizzard. So it's not something that should be offered with the assumption that no harm is done if the parrot does consume some.

 

[Mizzely]

It's true we don't know definitively. The last article I shared touched on that. Harrison's Clinical Avian Medicine says this is Chapter 5:




In Chapter 14, however:



They also mention that having access to insoluble items like grit as a chick may predispose parrots to proventricular/ventricular impactions when they are older.

 

[Rebel]

It's true we don't know definitively.

Its hard for me to believe birds would be self destructive like that. Theyre smart enough to know what to eat for certain minerals etc. I know they can have problems with certain ropes etc but that stuff is generally not in their natural environment like dirt sand and grit is. Not trying to start an argument , just my opinion.

 

[Mizzely]

Its hard for me to believe birds would be self destructive like that. Theyre smart enough to know what to eat for certain minerals etc. I know they can have problems with certain ropes etc but that stuff is generally not in their natural environment like dirt sand and grit is. Not trying to start an argument , just my opinion.

I mean, we assume that they know what to eat to get certain minerals...but do we know that for sure either? We assumed for years that they ate clay to detox, but then it turned out it was because their diet was low in salt. Salt tastes good, so the taste is rewarding, not necessarily the feeling in their body.

I'm smart enough to know that sugar is bad for me, but I still ate a donut for breakfast.

I assume like everything else we will learn more as time goes on. I did find it interesting that the US and Australia have such widely different recommendations and experiences!

 

[Rebel]

I mean, we assume that they know what to eat to get certain minerals...but do we know that for sure either?

I do know this. My chronic egglayer will eat her mineral block like its going out of style during her egg laying periods. Otherwise she barely touches it. I know when an egg laying bout is coming up by her mineral block activity. I dont know whats in oats but there are times she’ll pick all of the oats out of her seed and eat them. 95% of the time she doesnt eat the oats. A lot of the oats are colored. Not sure if those ones are coated with minerals or whether its just coloring.

But no, nothing is for sure. Thats why i say dont count out grit because , we dont know.

 

[Emma&pico]

I had a cockatiel female and budgie 9/10years ago and then you were told or pet shop said they needed it mine ever once touched it well gizmo pecked it and then ever touched it Henry never touched it

interesting @Rebel your female does that are they just on a seed diet or pellets too ?

 

[Rebel]

I had a cockatiel female and budgie 9/10years ago and then you were told or pet shop said they needed it mine ever once touched it well gizmo pecked it and then ever touched it Henry never touched it

interesting @Rebel your female does that are they just on a seed diet or pellets too ?

Seeds and pellets. It is interesting for sure. Apparently she knows something we do not.

As far as the grit goes, like i said, they know what to do.

 

[Mizzely]

On the other hand, when I got Ripley, he was on a seed only diet, and had Cuttlebone in his cage. The owner said he never used it, (and he never did here either) yet Ripley was severely deficient in calcium. So for my own anecdotes, I don't see evidence of the natural inclination to choose what they need. I wonder why the difference?

(genuine curiosity, not being combative!)

 

[Emma&pico]

Animals fascinate me I wish we knew what went on in their heads be a lot easier

 

[Naturalst]

I read your comments, I removed the "grit" sand from the cage, I will observe it for a few days to see if there is a difference when it doesn't eat grit sand...
But let me tell you, many vets and bird breeders in my country recommend the sand and state that it is necessary.

Also, what is the "grit" you are talking about, is it oyster shell clay charcoal sand or some other sand? "GRIT" sand contains oyster shell, coal, etc.
Honestly, I don't think that giving "grit" sand is harmful, but of course, it is necessary to speak based on evidence, I may be wrong in my guess.

 

[Mizzely]

Grit has two possibilities, which was covered in the first link I shared:

"There are two types of grit – soluble and insoluble. Soluble grit, such as cuttlebone and oyster shell, is sometimes recommended by a veterinarian as a dietary supplement. It is the insoluble type of grit, sometimes referred to as gravel because it actually contains small stones, that is improper for use with certain birds. Insoluble grit can not be passed from the birds system."

 

[Naturalst]

 

[Rebel]

On the other hand, when I got Ripley, he was on a seed only diet, and had Cuttlebone in his cage. The owner said he never used it, (and he never did here either) yet Ripley was severely deficient in calcium. So for my own anecdotes, I don't see evidence of the natural inclination to choose what they need. I wonder why the difference?

(genuine curiosity, not being combative!)

We have an understanding to not take anything personal from each other.
Have you tried anything besides cuttlebones. Mineral blocks for example. Theres a cuttlebone in her cage as well as mineral blocks. She rarely eats the cuttlebone. It would be interesting to experiment by giving her cuttlebone as the only choice. Birds cannot have survived millions of years without knowing what to and what not to eat.
What did/do you do to remedy his deficiency?

 

[Naturalst]

Grit has two possibilities, which was covered in the first link I shared:

"There are two types of grit – soluble and insoluble. Soluble grit, such as cuttlebone and oyster shell, is sometimes recommended by a veterinarian as a dietary supplement. It is the insoluble type of grit, sometimes referred to as gravel because it actually contains small stones, that is improper for use with certain birds. Insoluble grit can not be passed from the birds system."

Okey,thank you.
Ok, I'll put the sand back in the cage then We in the forum already recommend the sand you call soluble. I don't know how it is produced in your country, but the ones sold here contain coal, clay, are they soluble?

 

[Shezbug]

I think there is also a big difference between our caged/housed birds and the wild birds- wild birds have no human interference so they learn all the important and pre learned stuff from their parent birds but the birds we humans breed and tame are interfered with from often as early as the owners can force themselves into the picture which means all our pet birds have much less information passed onto them from parents. We often find many issues of pica, plucking, impactions etc in pet birds whereas we do not hear of see of these problems in wild birds.

My point is that we can not really say that birds have lived successfully for thousands of years without problems and line that up with our pet birds as our pet birds are nothing like their wild cousins.

 

[Mizzely]

We have an understanding to not take anything personal from each other.
Have you tried anything besides cuttlebones. Mineral blocks for example. Theres a cuttlebone in her cage as well as mineral blocks. She rarely eats the cuttlebone. It would be interesting to experiment by giving her cuttlebone as the only choice. Birds cannot have survived millions of years without knowing what to and what not to eat.
What did/do you do to remedy his deficiency?

Yeah I tried 2 or 3 different types of mineral blocks with him and put them in different areas around his cage.

Pellets. He basically ate mostly pellets for the first year here. Now I also give dark leafy greens, sesame seeds, etc, but that's hit or miss.

Okey,thank you.
Ok, I'll put the sand back in the cage then We in the forum already recommend the sand you call soluble. I don't know how it is produced in your country, but the ones sold here contain coal, clay, are they soluble?

I'm not sure. Usually some clays are digestible but I'm not sure how much of it is. We only have a few options in the US marketed to parrots that I'm aware of; one is total soluble because it's basically oyster shell, and the other has gravel in it which to my knowledge is not digestible.