Thank you all for your time and responses.
I don't have much guidance for you guys other than to say that's a controversial topic and business model -- it will completely push away some, and it will appeal to some.
The #2 rule on the Parrot Breeders Canada Facebook group is "no hybrids", and I think that only trails, "1. no selling live animals or ask price", because that would get them kicked off Facebook.
In the US, I have read that some breeders opt for hybrids because it simplifies shipping between states (hybrids are exempt under their endangered species legislation, while you'd have issues shipping Gunny since she's a Military, for example).
Not hybrids.
I haven't really asked Sam why we're only doing hybrids, but 5/7 of our macaws are hybrids. We didn't get the idea to start breeding seriously until Maya and Apollo started laying fertile eggs, and even then we were only raising the baby to sell since we don't have the space to keep any more. Our adult birds are companion macaws, so we aren't selling those, just the resulting babies. By the way, to anyone who was following my other post about Gunny, she lets me pick her up on a stick and doesn't even go for my hand. I can't even say how exciting and happy that makes me, just seeing the progress before my eyes. She charges me less and less every day, it's really heartening.
I understand it's a controversial and sore topic for some, I definitely wasn't anticipating the nastiness that would come from strangers about this (not on here, of course). We're selling hybrids because that's all we have, our pairs are a Greenwing x Ruby, Blue and Gold x Rubalina, and a Greenwing x Military. So, our resulting babies are going to be hybrids whether or not we want that.
I Don't have a big macaw but I was glad the aviary I got my Hahns was MAP Model Aviculture Program, Inc.
And also These, especially #4
And see this discussion about Abundance weaning
Thank you so much for this. It turns out we are already abundance weaning, it's good to know there's a name for it. The Avalon website has lots of great info, thank you for sharing that.
If I were personally looking into a breeder, I would want to know if the babies were co-parented and abundance weaned, not sold unweaned, weaned onto fresh foods and Pellets, and fledged/flighted.
I would also personally be weary of anyone selling hybrids that were bred back and look just like a pure species. Even if they are sold as a hybrid, these birds have long lives and that part of the story can get lost down the line, so it can potentially muddy the gene pool later on without realizing it.
That's good to know. Co-parented meaning raised by the parents that laid the clutch? I'm super new to all of this, so forgive me for sounding naive, but is there any benefit to co-parenting rather than hand-raising the baby from an egg? I would imagine the bird would be more socialized to other birds, rather than humans, for starters.
I completely understand your point about looking like a pure species. We aren't going to sell any hybrid babies that look like a pure breed as being a pure breed, specifically because of the fact that they have hybrid genes and if Aristotle turns out to be fertile, he would produce hybrid babies himself. We recognize that the story can be forgotten or lost down the line, so we plan on getting some sort of lineage documentation to pass on to buyers.
I would want to know the age and health of the parents. How many times have those breeders changed hands, and how many babies do they produce each year? It may not sound that important, but I question breeder birds that change hands frequently. I bought a pair of macaws a few years ago. It was a male military and a female blue & gold. The guy I purchased them from bought them impulsively and they were far louder than he anticipated. Eventually, he asked me to take them for almost nothing just to get the neighbors off his back. When I talked to him he said the previous breeder had taken the eggs away because they were too young to breed, but she had only had them a few months before selling them to him. Both birds were supposed to be less than 5 years old. I isolated them and got them to the vet for disease testing. Both of them had bornavirus. It wasn't that they were too young to breed, one of the previous breeders probably knew they were infected and didn't want to deal with infected chicks. Instead of doing the right thing, they just dumped them off on someone else.
I ask how many chicks they produce because too many chicks each year can reduce the number of years they can breed. Putting all those resources into raising young birds will wear them out. I would rather produce one or two really healthy chicks each year than a bunch that maybe aren't the best quality. I would want to know as much as possible about other chicks the pair had produced. I came across a bird that was the offspring of a breeding pair I now own. That bird was missing the tip of one toe. A baby I had last year needed to have the tip of the same toe amputated. The previous owner said she didn't think they came from the same pair, but if they did I would want to know about other chicks and if they were missing toes. It could possibly be a genetic issue that I need to be aware of. It may seem like unnecessary information but I think the more you know, the better off you will be.
Thank you so much for all of this. What do you think would be a good frequency of taking them to the vet? I'm not certain but I think Sam takes each bird to the vet once a month or every other month. I've only been here for 2.5 months and only been involved with the birds in this capacity for about a month. I'm just trying to learn everything I can to make sure we're doing this right and that the birds are being taken care of properly. I should also add that we aren't forcing the birds to breed, we're just hatching the eggs that they're laying normally and selling the babies because we don't have the space to keep them, otherwise we would rather keep them.
Good point about infectious diseases. I'd not buy a macaw, but if I were to, I'd want to know how often an actual vet tested & cleared them of being asymptomatic carriers of deadly bird diseases.
Very good to know, I'll make sure to get on top of this.
I would want to know how long the business has been in business ..what is the story of the owner and breeder ...Why hybrids are being bred.. at what age are the babies ready for the new home and are they weaned ..how does your adoption process work .. do you ship the babies and with who if you do ..refund process ... is there continued support for the babies by the breeder after they are sold... How can a person pay for the babies being sold ... are the babies and parents vet tested for disease ... what are the parents like temperament wise ..what is the breeder feeding the adults and what do they recommend for the babies.. Are the babies clipped before adoption and if so can they not be if a new owner wants it .. this is just a few things to think about when building a new business for birds ..
Thank you for this. I know you aren't asking me these questions, but I figured I would share the answers anyway...
As far as breeding/raising goes, I am totally new to all of this. The whole reason I'm here posting on this forum in the first place is to learn more about these incredible animals and be able to take care of them properly since I've been sorta shoehorned into helping take care of them. This is Sam's first time raising babies as well, but he has a few years of experience caring for the adults, so it's a learning process for both of us.
Hybrids are being bred because our pure birds chose a hybrid as their mate.
We're thinking that the babies will be ready to rehome when they have been weaned for at least 2 weeks, and we let the birds tell us when they're ready to stop feeding on formula, so we abundance wean as I learned earlier.
Our adoption process involves an interview and several visits with the baby to make sure there is compatibility, do you have any suggestions on what we should do as far as adoption process goes? We haven't actually sold any babies yet as our first one is just starting to reject formula so he isn't fully weaned yet, we are pretty clueless on this aspect.
We chose not to ship the babies, we just don't want anything to go wrong during the shipping process and have a dead bird arrive at someone's door. We opted for local pickup or free delivery within 500 miles of our location.
I'm not entirely sure what our refund policy is going to be. Any suggestions are welcome, I can only think of a refund being appropriate in the event a bird is discovered to have been sick originating from us. Again, I'm not a businessman, I'm a 28 year old nerd who takes care of giant living dinosaurs during the day and plays final fantasy at night lol.
What kind of support can we provide after sale? I figure general behavioral support is a given.
Right now, we only accept credit/debit cards and cash, and we aren't using an online store. We're asking people to contact us directly and then going from there. Any suggested changes to our methods would be much appreciated.
Both babies and parents, as well as non-breeding birds are taken to the vet I believe once a month, sooner if there's any reason for it.
Good point on the parents temperament, I will be sure to include as much info as possible about the parents.
We feed the adults 3 separate bowls of fresh fruit/nuts, Zupreem pellets, and Mayan Harvest Higgins seeds. Are these acceptable? We feed the babies the formula, I haven't been super involved with the babies' feeding, I just know that it has to be within a certain temperature and fed with a syringe on the left side of the beak. Not sure of the amount, I will find out though. Aristotle is being weaned onto fresh fruit and I believe nuts, not sure if he's tried pellets.
We don't plan on clipping the birds because we free-flight them, I hope that's the right term. The babies will be fledged. Side note: the adults don't really fly... like anywhere. I saw Gunny fly for the first time today, and only because she apparently lost her balance on the stick I was using to move her from the lobby to their room, she took off and landed on the jungle gym. Do I just have lazy, spoiled birds that don't have a reason to fly? They have the space, they just.. don't. Gunny prefers to walk on the floor even, she hates being perched. She's also missing 3 nails which may have something to do with it, but Leon, her mate is starting to walk around on the floor too after seeing her do it so often. Our birds are characters for sure lol.
I wanted to add that I do apologize if anyone feels offended by my questions or our methods or anything really, I'm here to learn what I SHOULD be doing, all I have to go on is what Sam tells me and he seems pretty knowledgeable about the birds because I can corroborate most of what he tells me by searching online. Thanks for everyone's time and I'm sorry for the wall of text.
