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Has anyone dealt with Foot Regurgitation?

Kenzie

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I am asking for a very specific behavior - I am NOT talking about casual foot regurgitation where a bird may really like their feet and just regurgitate for fun for their feet (weird, but ok. you do you, bird).

Specifically, I am asking for anyone who has dealt with a similar behavior as what my Patagonian Conure, Maze is and has exhibited since I've obtained her.
As a brief background I do think is relevant to this behavior: She was presented to me as a 1.5 - 2 year old bird at the time. I cannot know for sure, the people seemed very unknowledgeable about parrots as a whole and Patagonians in general THOUGH, I do believe I saw in the photos that were posted of her that her eyes appeared to show signs of being a juvenile as her species has darker eyes when fairly young and their eyes get much brighter as they mature. I cannot know for sure as her posted photos were not very clear and possibly were shot in a darker environment.

The husbandry surrounding her appeared poor. Poor food choice (think Walmart bottle of the barrel brand), cage was poor, and toy selection was a dingy old rope that may have been the first and only toy she had ever been given by her previous owners as her cage was empty aside from this sad toy. Additionally to the poor food choice, her weight tells me and vet that she was malnourished due to inadequate feeding both amount being available and the selection of WHAT they were feeding her, of course.

With all of this in mind, I have come to the conclusion that her regurgitation on her feet may be a coping mechanism - a way to re-eat her food due to starving and a way to cope with stress. She will regurgitate and then starts using her foot to shovel the food onto and re-eat it. It's an odd behavior and is exhibited in various situations:
1: When she is idle and there appears to be no trigger. Sometimes even when food is available.
2: When I am training her and asking for a behavior that requires any brain power to figure out.
3: When she is frustrated with in general i.e training session gone on too long, maybe.
4: When I am taking too long to ask for a new behavior when we are training and she wants to keep going.
5: When she has had a favorite treat - Almonds, Peanuts and wants to taste it again... I guess?

Has anyone dealt with this behavior?

At this time, I really want to eliminate it. The only way I have found to stop her during training mishaps is to leave the room... I almost feel like this might stop working soon? She seems less and less upset by me leaving the room. When she does it when she is idle, I try to engage her in another activity - me talking to her, starting a training session, or moving her to another perch.
 

Kassiani

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Maybe she has a problem with her crop or swallowing? Have you talked to her vet about this behavior?
 

Kenzie

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Maybe she has a problem with her crop or swallowing? Have you talked to her vet about this behavior?
Not yet! Didn't catch it being a constant until after our vet visit. I hadn't thought of the issue being more of a health thing, but asking vet was certainly on my to-do regardless to touch all bases.
Thank you.
 

DoubleTake

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Sorry I have not experienced this before. I hope the vet will have answers for you. Just out of curiosity, has she been keeping her weight?
 

kayosa

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Sounds like a behavior vice. Also called stereotyping, many issues can cause stereotyping but often it comes for a boring environment as a baby. A boring environment that isn’t stressful or stimulating will stop an animal from being able to cope well with stress and stimulation as an adult. Her boring life prior to her stressful life her previous home may have setup this behavior.
If this is a vice, like feather plucking, you’ll need to keep aclose eye on her and see when she does this and how often. If there’s a trigger you could reduce or stop this behavior completely. I suggest getting a baby monitor to keep an eye on her when your out of the room. Making a journal to write down observations might help figure out what is wrong.
I think it was Temple Grandin that wrote about stereotyping, one of her books has it I think
 
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Kenzie

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Sounds like a behavior vice. Also called stereotyping, many issues can cause stereotyping but often it comes for a boring environment as a baby. A boring environment that isn’t stressful or stimulating will stop an animal from being able to cope well with stress and stimulation as an adult. Her boring life prior to her stressful life her previous home may have setup this behavior.
If this is a vice, like feather plucking, you’ll need to keep aclose eye on her and see when she does this and how often. If there’s a trigger you could reduce or stop this behavior completely. I suggest getting a baby monitor to keep an eye on her when your out of the room. Making a journal to write down observations might help figure out what is wrong.
I think it was Temple Grandin that wrote about stereotyping, one of her books has it I think
This was a very helpful and informative response. I certainly equated it to feather plucking!
 

Teckechick

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This is one I have never experienced. I would talk to your vet about it for sure. Do you have any foraging toys and if so how does she react to those? How often does she do the behavior when idle vs when your training?

@Monica is this a behavior you have experience with?
 

Monica

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Thought led to me to think of it as a type of OCD response to previous care.... so would have to agree with @kayosa here.

Lara Joseph I think has some experience here... or there's always Pamela Clark and Barbara Heidenreich. I would recommend perusing their blogs, writings and info... then if you can't find the exact info you are looking for, perhaps reaching out to one of them?

https://pamelaclarkonline.com/ / Pamela Clark, CPBC
Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books / Barbara's Force Free Animal Training
 

Kenzie

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Sounds like a behavior vice. Also called stereotyping, many issues can cause stereotyping but often it comes for a boring environment as a baby. A boring environment that isn’t stressful or stimulating will stop an animal from being able to cope well with stress and stimulation as an adult. Her boring life prior to her stressful life her previous home may have setup this behavior.
If this is a vice, like feather plucking, you’ll need to keep aclose eye on her and see when she does this and how often. If there’s a trigger you could reduce or stop this behavior completely. I suggest getting a baby monitor to keep an eye on her when your out of the room. Making a journal to write down observations might help figure out what is wrong.
I think it was Temple Grandin that wrote about stereotyping, one of her books has it I think
There are not always triggers it seems. Shes cage free right now due to cage aggression and possessiveness over many toys in her cage so I am always watching. It's almost like shes thinking "I'm hungry. Time to eat now." And then does it to eat... and also as a response to stress. I mean the other day she did it for 40 minutes straight with a food bowl in beaks reach. Its heartbreaking and I havent a clue how to curb the behavior if it IS behavioral.
 

Kenzie

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Thought led to me to think of it as a type of OCD response to previous care.... so would have to agree with @kayosa here.

Lara Joseph I think has some experience here... or there's always Pamela Clark and Barbara Heidenreich. I would recommend perusing their blogs, writings and info... then if you can't find the exact info you are looking for, perhaps reaching out to one of them?

https://pamelaclarkonline.com/ / Pamela Clark, CPBC
Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books / Barbara's Force Free Animal Training
I'll look into this. I was hoping it was medical so some medicine could curb it
 

Kenzie

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This is one I have never experienced. I would talk to your vet about it for sure. Do you have any foraging toys and if so how does she react to those? How often does she do the behavior when idle vs when your training?

@Monica is this a behavior you have experience with?
She is emotionally attached to her foraging wheel lol. But she forages and enjoys it!
 

kayosa

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There are not always triggers it seems. Shes cage free right now due to cage aggression and possessiveness over many toys in her cage so I am always watching. It's almost like shes thinking "I'm hungry. Time to eat now." And then does it to eat... and also as a response to stress. I mean the other day she did it for 40 minutes straight with a food bowl in beaks reach. Its heartbreaking and I havent a clue how to curb the behavior if it IS behavioral.
Let’s think outside the box for a moment, it’s not an active trigger, but perhaps an environmental one. Does she like enclosed spaces or open spaces? Window view or no window? Flock or no flock?
is this a behavior she’s had since she was young or did it develop due to negligence. If it was negligence the behavior could slowly dissipate.
my horse has a behavior vice called Cribbing, the trigger is standing still and having little to do, in an enclosed space, with no herd(friends). To reduce it she lives in a pasture with a herd, and I never see her crib except when I pull her out to ride. Standing still is a bit to stressful for her.
 

Kenzie

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Let’s think outside the box for a moment, it’s not an active trigger, but perhaps an environmental one. Does she like enclosed spaces or open spaces? Window view or no window? Flock or no flock?
is this a behavior she’s had since she was young or did it develop due to negligence. If it was negligence the behavior could slowly dissipate.
my horse has a behavior vice called Cribbing, the trigger is standing still and having little to do, in an enclosed space, with no herd(friends). To reduce it she lives in a pasture with a herd, and I never see her crib except when I pull her out to ride. Standing still is a bit to stressful for her.
This is helpful... she does it in a cage or out, she does it whether shes alone - birds or no birds. When with humans and with birds all the same... certainly does it during stressing situations but also when all seems calm.
I'll have to continue monitoring and figuring it out.

She has been sitting next to me contently making noises, preening, and even sat and ate a full meal without doing it. She seems pleased to be next to me on the couch. I dont couch sit often but if it helps her maybe I'll have to lol
 

Monica

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You can quote multiple posts in one response if you would like to...


There are not always triggers it seems. Shes cage free right now due to cage aggression and possessiveness over many toys in her cage so I am always watching
Have you done any target training through the cage bars while she is in the cage? And target training through the open door and around the outside of the cage?

Setting up a treat cup inside the cage and dropping a treat in it any time you walk by can also help to associate good things with people around.
 

Kenzie

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You can quote multiple posts in one response if you would like to...




Have you done any target training through the cage bars while she is in the cage? And target training through the open door and around the outside of the cage?

Setting up a treat cup inside the cage and dropping a treat in it any time you walk by can also help to associate good things with people around.
The whole time I'm in there she gets very upset and yells at me trying to keep me from her toys and stuff. I tried dropping treats in that but she comes over and throws the treats out in anger. She wont participate in anything when I'm near cage. I can step her up after a few moments of chasing her around but obviously I dont want that since itll probably slowly become a very negative thing. Someone is always home so having her out isnt an issue. On occasion when we leave the home for any time more than 30 minutes she goes in her cage and I come and I have no issue getting her out when its darker in the room. Any less than 30 mins we have a large travel cage I pop her in (also for sleep).
 

Monica

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Interesting. If she throws treats out that are inside of the cage, what if you dropped a treat into a bowl on top of or outside of the cage?
 

Kenzie

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Interesting. If she throws treats out that are inside of the cage, what if you dropped a treat into a bowl on top of or outside of the cage?
It's a dome top and she has never ever come out on her own even with doors open :O shes such a weird case. we just started cage free this week shes been doing decent. I noticed no foot regurg today cus I was on my couch all day next to her... not sure why she was okay today. Was overall better behaved in general and we had a short stress free and engaged training session. I am surprised with her.
 

kayosa

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How does she do with play stands? I’m curious if this is a bars/cage only behavior or if she’s just toy possessive. Have you given her foot toys? (Since she likes feet lol)
 
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