Handfeeding Techniques

[Birdiemarie]

Reminder from Admins: Personal attacks will be deleted. Please keep the conversation civil and informative.

 

[Ming-Ming]

No, absolutely not. You and your baby are just fine.

Oh thank goodness, I was getting worried! LOL

 

[Jan]

I'd be happy to shows some of my handfeeding videos I have on YouTube... these would be Pionus babies.

 

[Billie Faye]

Jan, This is what I wanted to see! Like what you are doing...each one had a different response to the feeding....

 

[Birdlover]

Great vids Jan. What cuties

 

[Greycloud]

Great vids Jan! Are you using distilled water in the syringe?

 

[Jan]

No, it is not distilled but it is filtered water. When I did have to hand feed wee hatchlings then I'd use pedalite in place of water for the first week or so.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

"I'd be happy to shows some of my handfeeding videos I have on YouTube... these would be Pionus babies......"

Thanks for the videos Jan. Your videos, especially the first 2 of them, do show a better way to syringe feed, better than the original subject video in this thread. I am still perplexed though as to why you and others saw nothing "wrong" in the other video but I need to let that go it seems. For those members who posted in this thread, who did see something wrong or a hand-feeding practice that could have been done a "better way", I am glad your open input backs those of us who also had a problem with it.

One or two suggestions if I may Jan: For the newbie hand-feeder's benefit in your videos, don't you think it would be a good idea to explain to them (while you are talking in future videos) that you are not putting any pressure on the crop area while feeding, as to me it appears that you could be restraining or keeping the bird steady or in place with your hand against the crop area. Not saying you are, just saying that it can look that way to some. As you know, if a newbie hand-feeder pressed his/her hand against that area with any pressure on the crop, doing so could cause the formula to come back up and aspirate the baby. Just a suggestion.

Otherwise I also hand-feed (for the most part) in the same way as you do, except I don't put water into the esophagus after the formula = an unsafe practice IMO, especially if newbie-handfeeders do this after watching your videos. I myself have never seen that done before nor heard of anyone doing that. It can be unsafe in my mind because the water will sit on top of the formula inside the full or nearly full crop and if the baby rubs up against something with the crop or lays down with the crop pressed against the bottom of the brooder, or if the newbie hand-feeder picks up the baby to transport/put it back into the brooder, the water could come up (even if you only have given a small amt.) and aspirate the baby.

Billy Faye: Along with safe syringe feeding practices (since you seemed interested on how I myself hand-feed), I also use safe crop feeding practices with the safest instruments, when needed, to make sure the baby gets the needed amt. of nutrition at each feeding. Done right, there is no chance of aspiration that way, no mess and my babies get the right amt. of food that they are supposed to have at each feeding (etc.). My babies turn out as tame, if not tamer than those fed with only a spoon, only a syringe, a catheter, etc. ... One of these days, I will try and get around to making my own video, especially for you since you asked. ... In the meantime, try googling correct methods to gavage/crop feed (with videos). Hopefully there are some around to show the procedure in detail.

One other suggestion Jan: Maybe in your videos you could get a camera person to hold the camera at an angle to show the newbie the formula entering the mouth from the syringe, as the way you have it now, your hand blocks the view.

 

[Birdlover]

T
One or two suggestions if I may Jan: For the newbie hand-feeder's benefit in your videos, don't you think it would be a good idea to explain to them (while you are talking in future videos) that you are not putting any pressure on the crop area while feeding, as to me it appears that you could be restraining or keeping the bird steady or in place with your hand against the crop area. Not saying you are, just saying that it can look that way to some. As you know, if a newbie hand-feeder pressed his/her hand against that area with any pressure on the crop, doing so could cause the formula to come back up and aspirate the baby. Just a suggestion.

I remember her stating it in one of the vids...

Just checked, at 1:26 on the second video she does state this

 

[Billie Faye]

PTB, I would love to see a video of your feeding...I was taught MANY years ago by a CAV how to do crop feeding and to expell things from the crop (when needed) by the same methods....I didn't know any other way of feeding until years later...I think one of the things I didn't like about "crop" feeding was the baby never got the chance to "taste" the food as it went into its beak with its tongue. Watching how parrots feed their young, those babies are "tasting" the food as it goes in...and I have had baby with such head bobbing force to get the food, open up a crop...not nice!!!!! and yes the baby lived.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

I remember her stating it in one of the vids...

Just checked, at 1:26 on the second video she does state this

Thanks for specifying where that could be found. I gotta get some new speakers asap as the static on one of mine partially blocked out what Jan said at 1:26 into the second video.

Might be a good idea though for any hand-feeding video maker to make that statement or even a longer one with more explanation at the start of each video (since it is so important) and maybe even repeat it again once or twice during the same video & during the rest of the videos, since some listeners may miss certain things the first time around and might not go back for a second review or they might only look at only one video instead of all 3 in Jan's series. Just another suggestion to possibly avoid what could be a deadly mistake by the usually over anxious newbies especially.

 

[Jan]

PTB - Actually when I made those videos, they were not really made for others as a source of learning from. I would sometimes just show videos of babies that I was handfeeding that someone was purchasing and want to see me feeding. I did however say a few things about do's and don'ts.

I do not even tough the crop when I feed so there is no way I am applying any pressure on it at all. I can not do furture videos because I am no longer breeding and/or handfeeding babies. I hand fed babies for 23 years so have not had any problems to speak of when it came to feeding babies.

In all my years of hand feeding I never once had to gavage feed and never wanted to do that and I never needed a reason to feed that way.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

PTB - Actually when I made those videos, they were not really made for others as a source of learning from. I would sometimes just show videos of babies that I was handfeeding that someone was purchasing and want to see me feeding. I did however say a few things about do's and don'ts.

I do not even tough the crop when I feed so there is no way I am applying any pressure on it at all. I can not do furture videos because I am no longer breeding and/or handfeeding babies. I hand fed babies for 23 years so have not had any problems to speak of when it came to feeding babies.

In all my years of hand feeding I never once had to gavage feed and never wanted to do that and I never needed a reason to feed that way.

I pretty much figured you yourself were not putting any pressure on the crop in the videos, as I thought I clearly stated already but rather my concern was about what newbie breeders/hand-feeders might think or not think about regarding the positioning of your hand(s) in the videos. That's all.

Amazing, amazing record you had there regarding "never" having a need to gavage feed any baby during 23 yrs. of hand-feeding. "Luckily-amazing" might be a better term. Curiosity question if I may: How many babies (approx.) in those 23 yrs., did you hand-feed? You never had a baby that was abandoned by parents, never had a baby that was weak that had no feeding response? Never had a sick baby or injured baby that needed assistance eating or getting medicated or fed during it's illness? Never had a friend or fellow bird keeper/breeder or neighbor bring you a bird that needed gavage feeding for any of the reasons (or other reasons) already mentioned? Again, what an amazing lucky run you had there. I wish everyone could be so lucky. Still a good skill and useful tool to have at one's disposal should a need arise and a very useful tool to have to make sure every baby gets the right amt. of formula into the crop, even when they might not want it.

Take care Jan, enjoy your retirement from hand-feeding and breeding.

 

[Jan]

I said I never gavage fed and it can be very risky if you do not know what you are doing. I've had my fair share of sour crop/slow crop, sick babies with infections in which most could over come with antibiotic, babies with broken legs, a missing wing & foot on one only due to the parents decided to nibble on the one for some reason.

I've fed many babies over the years, can't even count them. No, I've never had anyone bring me their babies to feed for any reason. Never having to gavage feed is not an everyday thing and maybe some people out there do it when really it is not needed. I've always stayed clear of it and never had a reason to do it.

So, everyone does hand feed differently and every baby eats differently. Not all babies are vigerious pumpers with a strong force. I've had many Blue Front Amazons that would eat with a very strong pumping action and this is more so when younger and some birds when they get older they do not pump as much. Pionus are not real strong pumpers especially when when they get to the 2 months of age.

Main thing that some do when they are not experienced enough is causing to aspirate the chick. Trouble is, newbie handfeeders may not know signs of problems on the rise.

 

[vmorrison]

I've been breeding and hand feeding since 1991 and I've only had one baby that needed to be crop fed. In that time, I've fed probably 200-300 babies. When I don't get a good feeding response from a young baby, it usually means the baby really isn't hungry, the formula is too cool (the temp of my formula is usually between 106F and 108F) or the baby is a bit older and wants to eat a bit/play a bit and then come back and eat a bit more.

The biggest difference between what I do and what I saw in the videos is the way I hold the syringe. I was taught index and middle fingers under the tabs and plunger against the base of my thumb. I pull the syringe with my fingers so that the plunger pushes the formula out of the tip of the syringe with less force than if I were to use my thumb or index finger on the plunger to push the food through the syringe. I have small hands so I also use smaller syringes, as they are easier for me to handle. Smaller syringes mean the baby will get an "eating break" several times during each feeding, depending on how much formula I'm feeding.

Respectfully,
~Valerie

 

[craftsmaster]

One of the most prominent characteristics of a hand-raised baby is the lack of fear they display. His response to you will be one leaning toward affection. He’ll be cuddly, nuzzling up to you when you stroke him. He might even gently nibble (not aggressively bite) your fingers or hair. He may even try to play with your jewelry.