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Greenwing Advice

rocky'smom

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I am going to give Dr. Tony, my avian vet, a call and show him the feeding set up picture that you posted. I have a couple questions that I know Dr. Tony is going to ask
1. how old is this baby?
2. are you sterilizing the tube, both inside and outside?
3. what are you housing this baby in when not feeding ?
 

Joey wade

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1. how old is this baby?
2. are you sterilizing the tube, both inside and outside?
3. what are you housing this baby in when not feeding ?
That is very kind of you and greatly appreciated.

1. 49 days old
2. Yes... With some mysterious Thai cleaner that claims to be much like f10 and rinsing with scalding hot water.
3. Housing him in a large storage container with a plastic grate at the bottom. Top is halfway on and a ceramic heat lamp is nearby keeping the temp at 30 degrees Celsius.
 

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rocky'smom

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ok, I'll shoot Dr. Tony a email of this entire thread so that he can read it completely. he is certified Avian vet and he has rescue macaws (2). I also know he is not huge fan of feeding tubes, because unless you use a new tube every time, they can contain germs that you can't wash out. i'll ask him to call me with his ideas and thoughts.
 

Hankmacaw

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https://www.medicanimal.com/Tolfedine-Tablets/p/I0000504 Evidentely this is only used on dogs, cats and cattle in the US. We usually use Metacam for NSAID pain management. Sometimes Celebrex is used for NSAID pain management.

trimethoprin sulfathamexathole is a commonly used sulfa/antibiotic drug. I personally wouldn't give it to the baby - many GWs (including mine) are allergic to sulfa drugs. You might ask your vet about this.
 

Joey wade

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https://www.medicanimal.com/Tolfedine-Tablets/p/I0000504 Evidentely this is only used on dogs, cats and cattle in the US. We usually use Metacam for NSAID pain management. Sometimes Celebrex is used for NSAID pain management.

trimethoprin sulfathamexathole is a commonly used sulfa/antibiotic drug. I personally wouldn't give it to the baby - many GWs (including mine) are allergic to sulfa drugs. You might ask your vet about this.
I'm still not sure why pain medicine was even given. He acts fine.

Very good to know about the sulfa. The breeder suggested Baytril which I read can sometimes cause problems with development.

I'm not against giving him medicine, but I don't want to risk side effects from medicine that might not even be needed. At the same time, I don't want to Withhold the medicine and have an irreversible problem arise later on.
 

rocky'smom

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ok, Dr. Tony received the email and he will call me this afternoon after he has had the time to read the entire thread. his words 'Holy Cr@p that baby is young'
 

Joey wade

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ok, Dr. Tony received the email and he will call me this afternoon after he has had the time to read the entire thread. his words 'Holy Cr@p that baby is young'
Holy cr@p indeed. I wish the breeders would just take care of them...

Speaking of cr@p. He just woke up and I went to check on him. Does the urine part look okay?
 

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Hankmacaw

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Doesn't look like anything is wrong. Sometimes the urine and urates will mix a little and make the urine cloudy.
Here is a link for you to save - it's great for questions about their poop. Poopology - Identify Bird Health Problems through their Droppings

I did find a couple of references to Enrofloxicin (Baytril) causing "joint problems" in baby pigeons and parrots - so looks like you were right.
 

SpecialistElbru

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Earlier on this thread Joey wade proposed using hydrogen peroxide as a sterilizing/sanitizing agent. I do know that it is very good as way of destroying bacteria. I'm not as sure if it is as good at destroying yeast and fungus. Sometimes a long soak can corrode metal, but it does not damage plastics, rubber or glass. Also check the concentration to be sure that it is 3% hydrogen peroxide. In the US 3% is most common in consumer grad. Higher percentage is ok, but put on gloves. I had a co-worker who cleaned a spilled cleaning product that contained 5%, and he got peroxide burns on his hands. No long term damage but itchy burning white spots for a few hours.

Does anyone have experience using hydrogen peroxide as a sterilizing/sanitizing agent.
 

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As a nurse we use 1/2 strength peroxide and distilled water to clean and disinfect tracheostomy tubes. First wash thoroughly with antibacterial soap and water and a small tracheostomy brush. Rinse VERY WELL with running water then soak for a MINIMUM of 30 minutes in the peroxide/water. Then rinse VERY WELL with distilled water or water that has been boiled and cooled to a temperature you can handle. You do not want any peroxide residual on the tube as this could cause a chemical burn to the crop.


Wear latex or vinyl gloves when dealing with the peroxide. People with sensitive skin can get peroxide burns with even diluted peroxide.
 

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Just to let you know I have absolutely no experience with hand feeding. But as a nurse I have MUCH EXPERIENCE with infection control.
 

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I got my macaw when she was 13 weeks, so much older than yours at about 7 weeks, but I also worried about aspiration with a syringe. And to be honest, I just didn't like it - WE didn't like it. So I used 3 small Dixie cups stacked together. I found it to be the closest approximation to natural eating I could ask for, and she (Fia) was so much happier with the result. Maybe someone else here can chime in on if/when you could try this method... I imagine you could try it now - baby birds manage to eat just fine using a similar method with their natural parents. Stimulate the feeding response by touching the beak commissures, and to allow you to match your baby's feeding rhythm. It will be a bit messy, but you'll get good at it quickly.
 

Fia Baby

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If you go with using the apple cider vinegar (which I'd only do if I needed to, but I'd try that before the anti-biotics, and I'd definitely skip the NSAID), you can follow that up by adding small amounts of a good quality, plain yogurt to add beneficial bacteria. It won't hurt Vader at all to have a bit yogurt. Do be cautious with the vinegar though - it can cause skin irritation, so I imagine the potential is there to cause damage to the delicate lining of the crop. Also, remember that macaw parents don't wait for their babies to have completely empty crops before feeding them again, so to have a bit of residual food sometimes is not necessarily an indication of a problem.
 

rocky'smom

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ok Dr. Tony called me about half hour ago. I tried to write down every thing he said
1st off, this baby is very young (which we already know) he said that this li'l one should be getting at least 4 feedings a day. you should weight this lil one and 10 to 15 % of his body weight should be his next feeding. which is what Sarah said

2. like I said he is not fond of feeding tubes. he said that bird babies need to taste their food before it gets into their crop so they learn what eating is. you will need a good tutorial to help you and there are a lot on U-tube. he said some are good but a lot of them are NOT worth a hoot. but he also said to read thru this web site because their suggestions are very good.
The Science of Handfeeding and Weaning the Baby Parrot | The Parrot University, llc
please read thru all the sections in this article before you attempt trying any of this.
because you are in Thailand you may have trouble finding this there. a turkey bulb baster if you can't find the right size syringe. heat the formula and suck it up slowly into the baster then fed the baby. the baster can be pulled apart and scrubbed properly and sterilized. he said it does work. because Vader has never been fed with a syringe it is going to be messy at first. and will put your patience to the test. but it's worth it. if you are worried that the crop is slow at emptying try a little bit less then 1/4 teaspoon of unsweetened apple sauce (even baby human apple sauce will work) in the formula. or apple cider vinegar about 1 to 2 cc every other feeding. he recommends Bragg's Apple cider vinegar with the mother in the bottle.
he also said better to feed abundantly then not fed enough. the baby will wean himself and in his own time.

3. don't give any pain meds if he is not in pain. it's most likely because the vet there thought the bird is in pain. he is not clear why the antibiotics were given either. if they did a proper culture you would not have the results for a day or two. if they just looked at it under a microscope then it's not a culture. cultures take a couple of days to get the results. most likely the vet there just did a crop flush and examined it under microscope. same with fecal sample. his words were "that is useless in his opinion"

4.the container that you are using is fine. what he would like to see is a little more warmth, like a heating pad under 1/4 to half of the box set at medium setting. baby's container should be closer to 90dregrees. part of what slows the crop down is not enough warmth. he did ask what you were using to absorb the droppings with and how often you are changing that? and whether you are disinfecting the box daily?
he wish you well and hopes that this little one grows to healthy happy GW macaw.
 

Macawnutz

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It's not useless to do a gram stain on samples. That will tell you if you have gram positive or gram negative bacteria. Winged Wisdom Pet Bird Magazine - Normal and Abnormal Bacterial Organisms of Birds - Pet Birds it will also tell you if you have budding yeast or not. What it won't tell you is what strain of gram positive or gram negative bacteria you have, then you would want a culture. Which takes about a week or better to properly grow and get a sensitivity panel done.

Korbel was 6 weeks when I brought him home. The owner before me overfed him and he aspirated. My old vet loaded so many antibiotics into him without thinking about yeast infections or wiping out all the good bacteria. He did get a yeast infection, he did have zero immune system. Be careful medicating without cause.

http://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Considerations-When-Purchasing-a-Baby-Pet-Bird.pdf

Avian Articles | Niles Animal Hospital & Bird Medical Center
 

rocky'smom

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@Joey wade did they tell you or your friend to call back or come back for the results of those cultures?
 

Fia Baby

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I only have limited experience hand-feeding, so I'd be really nervous using a turkey baster. I think you'd have poor control over the flow and the bird. Basters are long - I'd worry that I'd hurt him/her with it with the strong feeding response. Dixie cups!! They were a god-send to Fia and I.
 

Macawnutz

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I used a 60cc syringe just like the video I linked.
 
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