• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Devastated

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
So, we got out Orange Winged Sweetheart in May. I dont think she had fruits and vegetables before as she refused any and all at the beginning. She was on pellets and also seeds, she also got toast every single day. I remember telling the woman how bad seed diets were.. but she insisted I take the bag as she loved it. I obviously never gave her the seeds.. in fact I forgot about them and recently got a nice meal moth infestation. Anyways.. we were told she was about 10 from the previous owner. I think she was pretty much cage bound for those years as she had no idea how to play.. or even climb a ladder.

She is a gentle and sweet bird. She began to forge, started using chew toys and is always with us. I stopped the toast from the beginning and she now eats celery, peas, apples and peppers. We keep trying every day.

As most know, we got a 2nd Amazon a little over a month ago. She hates him. He isnt clipped and is always flying to her and she absolutely freaks.

This past week she stopped maintaining her feathers. Even after her bath. She fell off her perch a couple of times. She sleeps so much these days and is always puffed. Because of Christmas, its been hard to get an appointment, but we got one for today.

She was seen today and she is sick. Her liver is absolutely massive on tge xray, she is missing something at the back of her beak (I forget what it is called) there is white plaque which also indicates a vitamin a deficiency. Her nails and beak were already overgrown since her trim in May. They hear wheezing. There was plaque build up in her one nostril. The bird may be a lot older than 10.

The vet said this is from years of neglect and in the time we got her we couldn't reverse it. She also thinks the bird has a respiratory infection so she is being tested for absolutely everything. Including chlamydia. We won't get that result back for 2 weeks. The other tests will be a couple of days.She doesn't want to put her on anti fungal or anything for possible chlamydia if she doesn't have it as she said it can cause other issues.

She was put on a vitamin supplement, Milk thistle and antibiotics. With all of that, she should get better.. but we can't reverse fatty liver. Her life will be shortened and the other parrot is a big stressor.

We will rehome our new fellow (after her results are back.. obviously if she has something contagious we will have him tested and treated). It is devastating. I absolutely love the little guy and my kids are crying. He is such a character. But I also know she needs a calm environment and proper care. I don't regret for a second getting her.. like I told the vet, the money doesn't matter.. I just want to help her. And I want him to live happy and able to be free to do his acrobatics and antics.

But I do think people need to be reminded how fragile birds are. They dont need French fries for treats, or toast for breakfast. They really need to be out, and moving around.. clipped or not (not here for that debate). They cannot be bound to a cage and they need proper vet care. Birds are not a cheaper option for a "pet". They are companion animals.

If you have a little burb that may not be getting that right now.. do it. Stop the junk food. Forget the seeds.. and get them out and moving. I'm so heartbroken for both birds tonight.
 

camelotshadow

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Joined
11/9/11
Messages
21,493
Location
S California
Real Name
Christine
:sadhug2:

Take it one day at a time. You can't undo the past. All you can do is make the most of the time you have.
Can you keep them in separate rooms. She understandably is weak & him flying over to her is threatening
but if he is kept at a safe distance she may enjoy his company.

Hopefully with a good diet, the milk thistle & vet care she will have some more good years with you.
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
21,433
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
Have you considered training instead of rehoming the other bird? Even keeping them in different parts of your home might be a better option than rehoming?

I am guessing what is missing is the choanal papillae from the back of the mouth, that is fairly common with malnutrition as I understand it. For some reason I think it is the vitamins found in orange veg- sweet potato, pumpkin, capsicum etc that is what is often lacking when this is missing- I am not sure where I heard or read that but it is in my jumbled up mind.

We can't fix everything from the past malnutrition but we can make the last years of their diet better than the first years they lived- hold in there, you are not alone with this struggle you've just found yourself in, there are a few of us in the same struggle!


In my case, if I removed the seeds from one particular bird I would have a dead bird... little brat wont touch them sprouted or even soaked and only really eats 3 individual food sources (sunflower seed, peas and the odd peanut)... he has just recently started eating pellets and trying the odd bit of veg that he is not used to- most of it wont get touched unless it is to pick it up and throw it. It is what it is and I will do the best I can to change things for the better as I am sure you will :bighug:
 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
Have you considered training instead of rehoming the other bird? Even keeping them in different parts of your home might be a better option than rehoming?

I am guessing what is missing is the choanal papillae from the back of the mouth, that is fairly common with malnutrition as I understand it. For some reason I think it is the vitamins found in orange veg- sweet potato, pumpkin, capsicum etc that is what is often lacking when this is missing- I am not sure where I heard or read that but it is in my jumbled up mind.

We can't fix everything from the past malnutrition but we can make the last years of their diet better than the first years they lived- hold in there, you are not alone with this struggle you've just found yourself in, there are a few of us in the same struggle!


In my case, if I removed the seeds from one particular bird I would have a dead bird... little brat wont touch them sprouted or even soaked and only really eats 3 individual food sources (sunflower seed, peas and the odd peanut)... he has just recently started eating pellets and trying the odd bit of veg that he is not used to- most of it wont get touched unless it is to pick it up and throw it. It is what it is and I will do the best I can to change things for the better as I am sure you will :bighug:
I will keep him for now, especially as we are awaiting test results.. But will keep options open (if the Avian vet knows someone who lost an Amazon and know they will care for him for example). I have a fairly large home, but it is open concept . The only closed rooms are the bedrooms and my gym. My OW is always with us. She was badly clipped when we got her and I have no idea if she will ever fly (the previous owner said she never did.. but she glides down and walks to her cage every night so who knows.) Because she doesn't fly, or know how to climb it seems. I always have out with toys on a play gym in our den or running around with me. (Obviously not now, now she needs quiet they said). She absolutely hates him most days. She freaks when my husband goes near him (she likes all of us, but loves my husband) and the baby seems to adore her. He will fly across the house to see if she is in her cage or with us. Right now, I need to keep them separated they said, in case she has something contagious. So he is in our only contained room that isn't being used.. the office. He is out ofbthe cage.. but it is a tiny 10x10 room. I feel bad for him. He is incredibly social. He loves everyone and everything. Even my mom who is hated by all birds. He kept flying to her shoulder every time we took him off on Christmas. He flies to strangers. Loves to be busy and active and play.. but will always search her out! He knows where her cage is kept and will fly there and she will scream and scream if she is in there.. So if there is a better home for him that he can be free to roam.. I do wonder if he will be happier in the long run. He is only 19 weeks old. We shall see. I absolutely adore both birds and know how hard it is on them when you rehome them. She did sit beside him yesterday.. but she was also is very quiet these last few days. Time will tell. I will wait for the results in any case and take it one day at a time.

Yes, she is completely missing the papilla of the choanal slit from what I read in the report. Her tongue at tge back also has white plaque. I have been trying since I got her to give her sweet potatoes, pumpkin, green leafy veggies.. so far no luck. But I will keep trying. The medicine should help regardless though.

Unfortunately birds get used to things. She scream her head off when she hears the toaster or sees pizza.. months after we got her. I am fortunate that she eats pellets. I know how hard it is to get them off of things. Sorry for your situation. Unfortunately many people years ago were told how seeds were the way to go.. or table scraps.. and thats how they are started off. The baby I have now was being hand fed lorikeet food via syringe when I got him. Its so hard to break once they are older, they are stubborn.. so I am sorry :(

Thanks for your kind words and good luck with your feathered baby.

That was them yesterday. You can see she was already looking very shabby. :(
 

SumitaSinh

Rollerblading along the road
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/6/20
Messages
1,464
Awwwww poor baby! I can feel your pain. But surely there's hope, just keep thinking positive. My prayers for all of you.
 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
Oh.. I also forgot, they said she has arthritis in her hips. If anyone had a bird with arthritis and has tips on how to keep her active.. once she is better of course, please let me know. Again, she doesn't fly and I don't know if she ever will. It could also be why she doesn't climb.
 

camelotshadow

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Joined
11/9/11
Messages
21,493
Location
S California
Real Name
Christine
Try to do your best for both of them.

He loves your family & her. She needs TLC.

You gave promises to both of them.

He is just being a healthy bird who loves you & your family & life.

She will not do considerably better without him & he won't do any better without you.

Just do your best. I fear if you let him go you might regret it.


Do what's best for both of them of course but I would try to keep him in the family
& understand that life goes on though we may have to make some changes.

Give it some time to work it out & think it over as you are emotional now.

:sadhug2:
 

Clueless

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
11/3/12
Messages
22,526
MC was missing those hairs in the back of the throat. Sadly, cancer ultimately took him from us.

Secret has the liver issue from years of bad food. Her xray wasn't awful but the numbers from the blood tests are bad. We do what we can for them.

Take it a day at a time. Seriously. We over think things when we are stressed.
 

Clueless

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
11/3/12
Messages
22,526
By the way, Secret had years of breakfast with a relative...... pieces of toast and orange marmalade.....
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,256
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
I hope your girl doesn't have any more problems.

To get some beta carotene into her, which is the precursor for her body to make vitamin A:
Try some red palm oil, put it on a piece of toast if needed. Most Amazons love it . In the wild there are a variety of palm nuts they will eat.
The red palm oil is fatty so don't go overboard, but if she won't eat anything else with beta carotene it is a good source. Check with the vet too, if you find she will eat it.

My OWA will also eat papaya; leave the seeds on, they are peppery and birds like them. December is always a tough month to find papayas, especially with supply chain issues now but Walmart and Natural Grocers have different supply chains from Kroger and Safeway so I just keep looking, much as I hate going into any extra stores these days.


She also likes slightly cooked carrot cubes from the frozen vege aisle. She likes them better than homemade cooked carrot "pennies" but eats both.

Brussel sprouts are high in Beta carotene. I give each of my Amazons a whole one (raw) and they enjoy tearing them up and I think they eat some too. Try cutting in half if they can't figure it out. They think oven roasted Brussel sprouts are very yummy too, I know they are eating those.

As for arthritis, which my BFA has, you can see if celebrex will help. The vet gave me an Rx for the capsules and I get the sugary vet syrup and a morter and pestle and make it up myself. Use GoodRx to get a coupon for a good price on the pills at your pharmacy.
 

Shannan

Sprinting down the street
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
7/27/21
Messages
563
Real Name
Shannan
I'm sorry you are going through all of this but it sounds like you have given her the best chance. It is completely devastating to go through that with something you love very much. The changes you have made will have an impact on the health of your bird. Walter used to be a seed-a-holic- and had convinced the kids to feed him lots of crackers, and chips (when I wasn't looking). He got very sick and I almost lost him. It took him almost a year to heal up but good food has made a HUGE difference. I know Walter loves pumpkin and it can be slathered on a small piece of whole grain toast if needed, (or maybe try some of the bird bread). As far as arthritis, there are lots of great ideas for adapting their space. It has made a HUGE difference in Walter's activity and comfort. I can go into detail if you want but there are lots of threads dedicated to it. I hope she heals up and you get a bit more time with her. Enjoy both your birds, and really although it upsets her, (and I would try to limit that as much as possible) in the long run it is not likely to make a huge impact on her as she will learn to adjust and your new guy will learn that bugging big sister is not the best use of his time.
 

Hankmacaw

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
1,000,001
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
If she has arthritis, please don't withhold medication from her. Meloxicam and Celebrex are both excellent pain killer/anti-inflammatories for arthritis. No matter what changes you make to her cage, what perches you use, none of it will kill the absolute pain of arthritis. I know, my female GW had severe arthritis from the time she was 6 1/2 years old. She was on both of the above medications at different times and during her last few years we added Gabapentin which helped a lot.
 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
If she has arthritis, please don't withhold medication from her. Meloxicam and Celebrex are both excellent pain killer/anti-inflammatories for arthritis. No matter what changes you make to her cage, what perches you use, none of it will kill the absolute pain of arthritis. I know, my female GW had severe arthritis from the time she was 6 1/2 years old. She was on both of the above medications at different times and during her last few years we added Gabapentin which helped a lot.
Hello,

Yes, she is on Meloxicam now. I would never withhold medication. Money isn't an issue here, so whatever she needs medically , she will 100% get. But aside from that, I was reading of infrared treatments, uv lamps and certain perches. Noy sure if anyone tried them though. Right now she isn't moving around, because she is so sick. She didn't even call out to my husband tonight, which never happens.. but I am hopeful she will pull through and since I don't know if she will ever fly.. I am hoping for advice to eventually get the girl moving.
 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
I'm sorry you are going through all of this but it sounds like you have given her the best chance. It is completely devastating to go through that with something you love very much. The changes you have made will have an impact on the health of your bird. Walter used to be a seed-a-holic- and had convinced the kids to feed him lots of crackers, and chips (when I wasn't looking). He got very sick and I almost lost him. It took him almost a year to heal up but good food has made a HUGE difference. I know Walter loves pumpkin and it can be slathered on a small piece of whole grain toast if needed, (or maybe try some of the bird bread). As far as arthritis, there are lots of great ideas for adapting their space. It has made a HUGE difference in Walter's activity and comfort. I can go into detail if you want but there are lots of threads dedicated to it. I hope she heals up and you get a bit more time with her. Enjoy both your birds, and really although it upsets her, (and I would try to limit that as much as possible) in the long run it is not likely to make a huge impact on her as she will learn to adjust and your new guy will learn that bugging big sister is not the best use of his time.
Thank you so much. I will def try this. She is on a very strong antibiotic, so she doesn't seem to want to really eat. She is drinking. I will def try different pumpkin concoctions on some bird bread.
 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
I hope your girl doesn't have any more problems.

To get some beta carotene into her, which is the precursor for her body to make vitamin A:
Try some red palm oil, put it on a piece of toast if needed. Most Amazons love it . In the wild there are a variety of palm nuts they will eat.
The red palm oil is fatty so don't go overboard, but if she won't eat anything else with beta carotene it is a good source. Check with the vet too, if you find she will eat it.

My OWA will also eat papaya; leave the seeds on, they are peppery and birds like them. December is always a tough month to find papayas, especially with supply chain issues now but Walmart and Natural Grocers have different supply chains from Kroger and Safeway so I just keep looking, much as I hate going into any extra stores these days.

She also likes slightly cooked carrot cubes from the frozen vege aisle. She likes them better than homemade cooked carrot "pennies" but eats both.

Brussel sprouts are high in Beta carotene. I give each of my Amazons a whole one (raw) and they enjoy tearing them up and I think they eat some too. Try cutting in half if they can't figure it out. They think oven roasted Brussel sprouts are very yummy too, I know they are eating those.

As for arthritis, which my BFA has, you can see if celebrex will help. The vet gave me an Rx for the capsules and I get the sugary vet syrup and a morter and pestle and make it up myself. Use GoodRx to get a coupon for a good price on the pills at your pharmacy.
I didn't think of papaya! There is a "specialty " store near me. They always have it. I will def get some tomorrow.

Where do you get red palm oil? I never even heard of that.

She throws Brussel sprouts lol. I will keep trying though.

Thanks ❤
 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
MC was missing those hairs in the back of the throat. Sadly, cancer ultimately took him from us.

Secret has the liver issue from years of bad food. Her xray wasn't awful but the numbers from the blood tests are bad. We do what we can for them.

Take it a day at a time. Seriously. We over think things when we are stressed.
Yes, we often do.

Her liver is 3 or 4 times larger than it should be. Her lungs are terrible as well :(
 

camelotshadow

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Joined
11/9/11
Messages
21,493
Location
S California
Real Name
Christine
Please try to get her to eat even if you have to make her some special bird bread.
Bread is not all evil. Some can be good in the diet. You can add pumpkin to it & all the things she needs to get in her diet.
If she is a bread junkie its a good way to make some healthy bread & its more likely she will eat it.
You can use almond flour & corn meal & oatmeal/ whole meal sprouted grains etc good flours...

Anything now to keep up her strength while the meds & treatments take affect.

Hang in there. It sounds like she is in loving hands & hoping for the best
 

Hankmacaw

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
1,000,001
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
@Cndbirdy Reed Palm oil can be purchased from Amazon. Many of us buy this brand - I do. all of my birds have been on RPO for as long as I have owned them. It does amazing things for their feathers. It is exceptionally high in several carotenes (Vit A) and low in in saturated fats and contains Omega 3.

 

Cndbirdy

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/15/21
Messages
39
Can I ask one last question. How rare is Chlamydia in Amazons? Our normal Avian Vet was closed due to a Covid outbreak. This vet originally said it was highly unlikely in an Amazon at first. Then when she did tge xrays said its was more plausible. (Englarged liver with black lungs on xray). She also said not to worry, it isnt so infectious to humans. The pediatrician said that isnt tge case. I am so worried now about my kids, who handled her every day. It will be 2 weeks for lab findings. She is now on doxycycline. My little guy has terrible febrile seizures, so my anxiety level is really high. We had her since the end of May. The new bird came about a month ago. They were isolated from each other for a while and the baby bird seems healthy. (Both are clearly now quarentined)
 
Top