Citron Advice

[allison]

At the rescue I am definitely a cockatoo person. I can read most 'toos no problem, but do have more difficulty with the SC2s. Especially citrons. I am trying to build trust with a citron who was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder by a practicing psychologist who has worked with some of our toughest bird cases. He was emotionally and physically abused by a woman in his past, we are not sure about the details but when he came in he attacked all woman out of fear. Since then, several woman at the rescue have been working with him to try to get him to trust woman more. Now he only attacks people who he's had bad experiences with (people who have had to towel him, etc). I have been making really good progress with him. When I'm cleaning he likes to jump onto my lap and just watch me, and lately he's been wanting me to pet him a little bit. But every once in a while something sets him off and he full on attacks me. When he attacks, it's almost if he's trying to kill me, multiple bites, flying off and then back on, attacking several times extremely hard until I can grab a towel or a perch which he is scared of. One minute he can be completely calm just walking around on the ground, and the next something sets him off. I personally think that he's having flashbacks of previous experiences with the woman who abused him. When this happens, I don't get angry, I just lead him back to his house with a towel or perch and shut him in. Later I go back and talk to him calmly and he'll usually let me scratch his head through the cage a bit. He is completely fine with men. He will let some guys do anything to him but is extremely fearful of woman, especially hands of woman.
I would love any advice. I hate using towels and perches to scare him when he's attacking me because I would like him to trust me, but I have to protect myself as well. He hasn't attacked me in several weeks but I never really can tell when he is going to do it. For those who have citrons especially, what are their warning signs. Like I said, I can read the other toos very well, but SC2s are different. They are much harder for me to read.

 

[Bokkapooh]

How old is he?

Male cockatoos, even the small guys, are known to be mate aggressive.

I think he may of chosen you as a mate, but sometimes males do are sexually frustrated have a tendency to act aggressively to their mates.

Can you get a video of him of how he normally acts to you?

 

[Kristy]

First off BRAVO to you Allison for continuing to work with this guy and figure out what's going on and how to avoid it from happening again.

Why they "snap" can be soo hard to figure out, and full on attacks from even the smallest Toos are horrible.

I can't add much but to say how proud I am of you.

 

[allison]

Mercedez, We are not allowed to share videos or photos of the birds at the rescue. I don't think he views me as a mate at all. He is still very nervous with me. He doesn't really trust me (or any other women) at all. He really likes men and if any men are around he is extra aggressive to women. It is a fear aggression, not a displaced aggression.
Kristy, Thanks, I am not going to give up on him, it's not his fault.

 

[nellysmom]

I have had my C2 for almost 18 years and I have not found any difference in reading her than the TOOs I work with where I volunteer. I will say though I think they are quicker to react so if I even think she might bite which I can't remember the last time she did I change my behavior and get out of the line of fire. Sometimes when I look at her it's as if I can literally see the wheels turning. I think maybe their warning signs are more subtle. I do think you may be right about the PTSD and flashbacks

 

[samccormack]

Elima (My female C2) has a similar Kill Switch and when it gets flipped you are in serious danger. I haven't found a 'fix' for this yet but a couple of things that might help reduce the instances of this (it has helped me)

- Keep the energy level as low as possible. If I get Elima too worked up she will check out on me and the evil attackatoo comes out.
- This may not be practical in your situation but the next time Elima does this to me I am just going to leave her alone rather than trying to get her back into her cage. As long as she is on the floor, I have shoes, and the cat is put up this SHOULD be safe.
- Elima definitely considers me her mate and gets mad at anything else that is taking my attention. So I try and make sure keep her happy without teaching her that she can get my attention whenever she wants it, after all my other C2 (Topper) needs some love too!

I've met 4 Citrons and 3 of them are plucked. Elima is the only C2 I've met that isn't a feather destroyer and she has an attitude that is distinctly different from the other 3. She has a strength that I just don't see in the others. Topper my other C2 is a plucker and she is more timid than Elima. The other 2 C2's I know are at the bird store near my house and both are pluckers (and female as well). One, Lilly, was abused and was terrified of people when she first got to the store and now 6 months on she is still fearful but much much improved and she is a total doll with people she knows, the staff often ask me to get her out since she comes to me no problem and will allow me to hold and pet her as much as I want. She is very jumpy though and I have to be careful not to over stimulate her because she'll just start to bite. There is another C2 there named Rosie who I don't know much about other than she is also a bit plucked (similar to my Topper) and she has some trust issues and won't always allow herself to be picked up although she'll usually take a scritch from me. Fianlly there is a male LSC2 there that they have had for several years. His name is Crash because he was found on the side of the road after having been struck by a car. When I bought Elima she was in the cage next to Crash and the staff joked that Elima was Crash's girlfriend. Elima didn't seem to care one bit about him but if he saw you taking Elima out of his sight he would get a little mad. His personality is similar to Elima's in that he is a big biter but also seems to genuinely enjoy attention from humans and he isn't a plucker. He is fun to watch because he is like an ADD kid who's had a 6 pack of jolt cola (Just think Kristy's Solo with a yellow crest I've not held or petted him much because he is more likely to bite than not and I like my fingers thank you very much.

In general I would say you are on the right track with your Citron friend and hopefully he will come around in time although he may never trust females fully. My birds don't like anyone else but me and this isn't likely to change unless I find a friend or someone that wants to work with them. My vet gave me a card for a behaviorist but I don't have the money to do something like that. Citrons seem be almost empathic with their ability to read our emotions. If I am the least bit annoyed, tired or otherwise not normal I usually have 2 crackatoos all upset and worried (which usually is counter productive to my emotional recovery but when you upset or sad they are just the greatest when you can sit with one in your lap and just cuddle them until you feel better.

 

[Greycloud]

No, I don't think he has chosen you as a mate. He obviously doesn't quite trust women yet. Who knows all he has been through. When coming in contact with you he feels ok in the beginning then explodes. My suggestion would be that if he does approach you and has contact with you, keep it to just a few seconds or minutes. Then put him back and give him a treat and praise him. This will let him begin to accept that positive behavior gets reward. If he has the chance to explode on you he will begin to affiate you with being chased back to his cage in a negative way. So keep hat contact to a very minimal level and put him away.
I also congratulate you in your continual attempt to work with him. It can be dangerous and scarey. I hope you are successful in helping this Too turn his life around.

 

[nellysmom]

Citrons seem be almost empathic with their ability to read our emotions
I so totally agree with that. My little girl will come down off her cage and walk over to where I am sitting,wait to be picked up then rub her beak up and down my cheek. She will just snuggle and not ask for anything for herself. She is also a one person bird and the story behind that is a bit long so I don't want to hijack your thread.
BTW I agree with Greycloud about the reward and short term interaction

 

[allison]

Great advice everyone.
The only thing is, with putting him away before he gets over excited, it is difficult to get him into his house without threatening him with a perch or towel. He is not very food motivated and there is always distractions and food elsewhere at the rescue. He makes it difficult to work at a steady pace because he will velcro himself to my lap and gets upset when I try to dump him off (he doesn't step up for me without biting). I think he might be picking up on my frustrations with him and is angry at me for not allowing him to stay on me when he attacks. It is usually after I have "dumped" him off of me and he's been bouncing around on the floor, getting all worked up. He will climb up high and then attack me. Sometimes I don't even notice him when he attacks. It's mostly when I'm standing and he's up high.

 

[samccormack]

Great advice everyone.
The only thing is, with putting him away before he gets over excited, it is difficult to get him into his house without threatening him with a perch or towel. He is not very food motivated and there is always distractions and food elsewhere at the rescue. He makes it difficult to work at a steady pace because he will velcro himself to my lap and gets upset when I try to dump him off (he doesn't step up for me without biting). I think he might be picking up on my frustrations with him and is angry at me for not allowing him to stay on me when he attacks. It is usually after I have "dumped" him off of me and he's been bouncing around on the floor, getting all worked up. He will climb up high and then attack me. Sometimes I don't even notice him when he attacks. It's mostly when I'm standing and he's up high.

Is there a place you can take him that you can take him that gives both of you some space to disengage if needed? This is similar to my situation with Elima. I don't want to just put her away and it sounds like he does want to be with you but his fear is in conflict with his desire to be with someone. Maybe playing with him in an area where he can't get up high and attack (I put Elima on the floor to achieve this) and make sure you have bite resistant clothing/shoes on so if he goes after your legs and feet you won't get hurt and just wait for his fit to stop. Usually they'll attack then stop for a second to see what affect is has had. It seems to really confuse them when they don't get the reaction they were expecting. Since they love drama (even bad drama) it always seems to work better if you can set up your encounter so you can 'escape' (even if it's just by keeping him off you for a few minutes) without giving a drama reward. This is the hardest thing I have to try and control and even though I know not to do it I know I still do it and I have to tweak the situation so that I can safely ride these out. It sounds like he's just learned over the years that attacking and biting gets lots of drama and it's almost force of habit at this point as much as a response to fear or worry. Elima is the same way and will attack her toys as viciously as she does when she goes after something she is afraid of.

 

[allison]

The only problem is in this situation, there is work that needs to get done and I don't have the time to sit and play with him one on one. We are supposed to have shifts from 5-9 but I've been coming in at 4:30 and not leaving until 10 or 10:30 and cleaning the entire time. We have been short staffed.