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Bearded Vulture in the UK

Ali

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Someone's SatNav wasn't working great...
 
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Khizz

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BBC News - Bearded vulture spotted in the Peak District
Howden Moor! Wow! That's not far from my former neck of the woods, I used to live in Sheffield. I never saw anything that cool when I was there :lol:
 

Khizz

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Just a terrible football team! I hate football very much and don't follow it. All I know is that any local team to me is useless, and Sheffield most likely it too :D
Well I am definitely not going to disagree with you on that one :laughing2: For some odd reason my brother supports Newcastle United (we have absolutely no connections to Newcastle!) and my other brother used to support Manchester United. As the youngest and only girl my punishment was to go in goal, and I had to be Liverpool (a great insult in my family!)
 

Ali

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and I had to be Liverpool (a great insult in my family!)
Lollllllll :coffeescreen:

Football is a joke! A bunch of people running around like headless chickens after a tiny pointless ball, kicking it "falling" on the floor in "agony" and being paid 100 billion pounds per second!
 

Khizz

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Lollllllll :coffeescreen:

Football is a joke! A bunch of people running around like headless chickens after a tiny pointless ball, kicking it "falling" on the floor in "agony" and being paid 100 billion pounds per second!
The pay is insane. I can only watch football when I'm in a pub (ahem might have more to do with the tasty beverages...) otherwise I hate it. My mum only got us Sky for a few months, and she had to cancel it because my brother used to watched every match and we'd be stuck watching football 24/7.

Funnily enough England's female football team is supposedly better than the male, and they get significantly less pay and less coverage!
 

tka

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Anyway I'm that willing to be distracted from this uni work:

View attachment 345867

That I'm complaining about football :laughing2: Turning off AA until I have finished reading!
Oh nice! Thomason and Kaufman right? It's a long time since I read it! Have you come across Ishtla Singh's History of English? It's an overview but strikes a nice balance between detail and accessibility. It's a bit hard to track down so let me know if you're interested.

@Ali this is some work on the beginnings of English as we recognise it, before 900 AD - so over a thousand years ago. This passage is talking about some of the West Germanic languages that influenced this early form of English, and some of the sound differences that are emerging. This is about the closest we get to time travel - it's a really cool area of study.
 

Ali

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Thank you! It sounds very interesting. All I worked out was that it is about early Britain!
 

tka

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Here's a brief introduction that doesn't go into too much linguistic detail: The history of English | Lexico

The history of the English language is basically the history of the UK. The objects and concepts we have words for, the contact we have with others in terms of trade, art, science and culture, invasions and colonialism, developments and discoveries in science, medicine, and technology... Through language we can gain insight into how people thought, how they described their emotions, and what they thought was important. Two of my favourite things about Old English are how central cows are and the many, many words derived from mōd (meaning 'mind' or 'mental state'). It's a really, really interesting field.
 

Ali

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I have always wanted to know about the beginnings of languages and how they are formed. Thank you for that link!

When was the word 'language' created?
 
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Ali

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I'm sorry @Ripshod , I sort of high jacked the thread into the beginning of the English language
 
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Khizz

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Oh nice! Thomason and Kaufman right? It's a long time since I read it! Have you come across Ishtla Singh's History of English? It's an overview but strikes a nice balance between detail and accessibility. It's a bit hard to track down so let me know if you're interested.
Yup, exactly! My assignment is an overview of the debunked "Middle English is a creole" theory. I had a pre-existing interest in creole languages and came across the theory and thought it was interesting. So I am revisiting it, reviewing the arguments and so on.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll look it up, if I don't have access to it I'll PM you :D

I feel bad for derailing the thread, so I will see whether there is an old English word for vulture...unless @tka can enlighten us? I'd assume that there wouldn't be a huge variety of bird classification?
 

Ali

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Funnily enough England's female football team is supposedly better than the male, and they get significantly less pay and less coverage!
Same with the rugby team. They are always winning things, but to watch it, you have to look at some channel like ITV 93 that nobody ever heard of in the world!
 

tka

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Sorry @Ripshod!

To get back onto the subject of vultures, the word vulture comes to us via Anglo-Norman vultur and voutre which come from Old French voltour, voultour, voutour which got it from Latin. The first attested use in English seems to be Chaucer in 1374 which is comparatively late:

I graunte wel þat þow endurest wo.
As sharp as doth þe Ticius yn helle.
whos stomak foughles tiren euere mo.
That highte volturis as bokes telle.

I grant well that you endured woe
As sharp as did Tityus in hell
whose stomach birds tear at ever more
Those that they call vultures, as books tell

This is a reference to the Greek myth of Tityus/Tityos, who was condemned to have his liver torn out by two vultures by day, only for his liver to grow back at night to be torn out again the following day, and so on forever. The late date of this first attested use and the reference to classical mythology both suggest that vultures were not commonly encountered by English speakers; they learnt about vultures through myth and story rather than directly seeing them. Compare this to an example of heafoc - hawk - from c1000 (from The Fortunes of Men http://www.oereader.ca/Fortfram.htm, translation based on Robert Dinapoli's). The description is based on clear familiarity with the process of gentling a wild hawk. Helen MacDonald's H is for Hawk details the same process when she describes her first interactions with Mabel, a goshawk, a thousand years later.

Sum sceal wildne fugel wloncne atemian,
heafoc on honda, oþþæt seo heoroswealwe
wynsum weorþeð; deþ he wyrplas on,
fedeþ swa on feterum fiþrum dealne,
lepeþ lyftswiftne lytlum gieflum,
oþþæt se wælisca wædum ond dædum
his ætgiefan eaðmod weorþeð
ond to hagostealdes honda gelæred

Another one can tame the wild, splendid bird
the hawk, to his hands, til the battle-swallow grows meek
a thing of delight; he fits its jesses
feeds it so with its proud wings restrained
offers little morsels to the air-swift creature
til that alien spirit - its feathers, its flight -
yields humbly to its nourisher
and to the young man's hand is trained

There are actually a number of Old English words for birds - you can explore these with the Historical Thesarus



Remember that we tend to have words for things we encounter every day so there are a number of Old English words for different kinds of hawk and falcon. Falconry was incredibly popular, so we get a huge number of words for different kinds of raptor - different species of hawk and falcon, different genders (e.g. a male peregrine is called a tercel), very young or old raptors, different parts of their bodies, their flight, and words relating to their care, training and equipment needed to look after them. Vultures don't occupy the same space in the specifically English imagination because not enough people encountered them.
 

mak

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The first attested use in English seems to be Chaucer in 1374 which is comparatively late:

I graunte wel þat þow endurest wo.
As sharp as doth þe Ticius yn helle.
whos stomak foughles tiren euere mo.
That highte volturis as bokes telle.
Wow, having scary high school flashbacks right now. :shocked4:
 
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