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Baby Bird Acting Odd VERY CONCERNED

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birdlvr466

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Nikki you tried your very best. Fly free little baby bird. :angel5:
 

Prince Toasty Buns

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Bad news, baby has a puncture in its esophagus. :( They said they can do surgery but chances of survival are slim and it is quite expensive. That would explain pretty much everything. They said it can happen when the parents are feeding the baby if they are rushing or when the babies are vigorously bobbing at each other or if they surprise a person bobbing too hard during hand feeding. Since the parents aren't feeding them and I know they didn't bump the syringe we are guessing that it is from when the babies bob at each other. I am going to have to let this little one go. Thanks everyone for your advice.
Keep this little baby in your thoughts. :sad2:
Hello Nicole, sorry to hear about what has happened to the little one. :(

I will be curious to hear Susanne's opinion or experience with what you say those vets said probably happened.

Curiosity question: I thought you said earlier, "They do not have a clue what is wrong...I am getting him to take his feedings now, he is digesting in a timely manner and taking the next but still standing up and acting funny right after eating and then returning to normal behavior after a few minutes! He is still losing weight too! I really think I am going to lose him. How can they not know what is going on they are the vets?!"

What am I missing? Now, all of a sudden we are told they are saying there is a puncture in the baby's esophagus. What is that ole saying: "Something smells rotten in Denmark" (no offense to anyone from Denmark, currently living in Denmark or if you have friends or relatives in/from Denmark). By the way, what does that saying even mean (if I got it right), why Denmark?

Nicole, were you present every second during the exam? Was the bird ever out of your sight? Do you think it possible that they somehow caused the "puncture"? Reason I ask these questions is that I have handfed and cropfed hundreds of Tiel babies (other species too) over the yrs. and never did I have a parent or sibling make any punctures in a baby's esophagus, accidentally or on purpose. I have never even heard of that happening from others I have known who have yrs. of handfeeding experience. I am not saying it is not possible, just that I have serious doubts. Causes of punctures/holes in the esophagus are caused by burns (feeding too hot a formula), sharp instruments put into the esophagus in an attempt to cropfeed or improper use of gavage instruments in the cropfeeding procedure. If what these vets have said is true about how the puncture probably happened, then it will be a first in my life of keeping/feeding birds. But we readers will never know what happened for sure.

Sounds to me like you did your best. There is something to learn from every experience. I hope everyone reading this thread is leaving it with /info. that will might help their own birds in the future.

Rest in peace little one.
 

Holiday

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What is that ole saying: "Something smells rotten in Denmark" (no offense to anyone from Denmark, currently living in Denmark or if you have friends or relatives in/from Denmark). By the way, what does that saying even mean (if I got it right), why Denmark?
It's "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark," Prince, and it's a quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet. Y'know, 'cause there's a ghost and Hamlet's Dad the king of Denmark was murdered, etc.

So sorry about the baby bird, Nicole. :(
 

srtiels

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Bad news, baby has a puncture in its esophagus. :( They said they can do surgery but chances of survival are slim and it is quite expensive. That would explain pretty much everything.
-------------------------------------

Is there some food trapped there under the skin? If so, this has happened to a friend of mine a couple of years ago, and the babies (tiels) acted similar. I also had a lady fly in from GA (pix below) with a baby the vets could not help. What I have learned is that if the punture is actually in the inner crop tissue and tapped between the inner and outer skin the body will seal it in a pocket and as the skin tightens it will harden, and expell the hard matter thru the skin. The skin actually splits enough for the matter to come out and then seals itself closed.

The food trapped under the skin is lower than the throat in my pix, but if your is near the esphagus it is going to be up higher. can you look at the little ones throat to see if it looks normal?

If this is the problem, as long as the baby can digest well on it's own I would just leave it be and let the body contain it, expell it, and self heal.
 

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srtiels

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I have never even heard of that happening from others I have known who have yrs. of handfeeding experience. I am not saying it is not possible,
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen it several times. The most dangerous syringe a person can use is the Monojet curved tip syringe. The second most danergous syringe is any syringe that the tip has been cut to enlarge the hole, or the tip has rough edges. The tip of a syringe isdragged against panty hose, if it is safe it will not snag. If it snags, toss it. Even steel feeding tubes/needles get old and the metal can crak at the opening and small burrs can damage crop tissie. I've learned no matter what type of feeding utencil used the tip that goes into the mouth has to be checked often.
 

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Prince Toasty Buns

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It's "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark," Prince, and it's a quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet. Y'know, 'cause there's a ghost and Hamlet's Dad the king of Denmark was murdered, etc.

So sorry about the baby bird, Nicole. :(
Thanks for educating me on that. :)
 

Prince Toasty Buns

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I have never even heard of that happening from others I have known who have yrs. of handfeeding experience. I am not saying it is not possible,
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen it several times. The most dangerous syringe a person can use is the Monojet curved tip syringe. The second most danergous syringe is any syringe that the tip has been cut to enlarge the hole, or the tip has rough edges. The tip of a syringe isdragged against panty hose, if it is safe it will not snag. If it snags, toss it. Even steel feeding tubes/needles get old and the metal can crak at the opening and small burrs can damage crop tissie. I've learned no matter what type of feeding utencil used the tip that goes into the mouth has to be checked often.
Susanne, you said you have seen "it" happen several times? I am assuming by "it" you mean what you went on to explain about in your text following that comment in the same paragraph.

What I was talking about was parent birds puncturing the esophagus themselves while feeding their baby(s) or baby bobbing among clutchmates causing puncturing of the esophagus.

Have you ever had that happen with any of your Tiels/birds?
 

NikkiLS

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Bad news, baby has a puncture in its esophagus. :( They said they can do surgery but chances of survival are slim and it is quite expensive. That would explain pretty much everything.
-------------------------------------

Is there some food trapped there under the skin? If so, this has happened to a friend of mine a couple of years ago, and the babies (tiels) acted similar. I also had a lady fly in from GA (pix below) with a baby the vets could not help. What I have learned is that if the punture is actually in the inner crop tissue and tapped between the inner and outer skin the body will seal it in a pocket and as the skin tightens it will harden, and expell the hard matter thru the skin. The skin actually splits enough for the matter to come out and then seals itself closed.

The food trapped under the skin is lower than the throat in my pix, but if your is near the esphagus it is going to be up higher. can you look at the little ones throat to see if it looks normal?

If this is the problem, as long as the baby can digest well on it's own I would just leave it be and let the body contain it, expell it, and self heal.

Thank you so much for your thoughts everyone. The baby is still with me as I am really trying but I fear I might have to let him go....
SUSAN I just looked at his throat and it has the lump like shown in your pic....I am not sure if I read it right but are you saying it could heal if I can keep him around long enough? He is just getting soo thin. It is to the point where he is digesting too quickly he doesn't even look full after taking as much as 4ml and that is about as much as he will take. Then he does the standing up straight and wobbling thing. He is getting a bit lethargic but again still eating, he gets up and searched just as vigorously as the other babies. I will see what tonight brings but would love to hear your thoughts. I have never had this problem in all of my clutches and was surprised to hear it could happen for so many reasons. I do not use those syringes you showed or cut them to make the holes bigger. He did not thrust into it so I can only assume it was done by the other babies somehow? As for the vet visit I was not there the entire time but he is no worse and I did have to wait for the avian vet to see him to get this diagnosis as I took him to Emergency and they were not available originally. Again thanks everyone for your kind words I fear he will not make it but he is such a trooper I just haven't been able to give up yet.
 

srtiels

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What I was talking about was parent birds puncturing the esophagus themselves while feeding their baby(s) or baby bobbing among clutchmates causing puncturing of the esophagus
------------------------------------

OK...not to offend, but my first thought to that was Bull Crap... The only damage I have seen aggressive clutchmates do while bobbing each other was rip off the whole upper beaks. And damage would be external not internal.
 

NikkiLS

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Ok, I am a little confused but I guess all I have to go on is what I was told... I just gave them another feeding he has spiraled downward since the last feeding drastically. I don't think he will make the night, I am just going to bring him back to the vets and say good bye. It is tough this is not a money thing for me I really get attached to these babies and make sure they only go to the best homes. It is just such a tiny precious life, plus with the two babies of my own I have that whole try to make everything all better thing in me. Thanks everyone.
 

srtiels

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If you have a scales weigh him and feed 10% of body weight at each feeding. If he is digesting well then just feed more often. Many times overfeeding per feeding like 4cc with a 20 gram bird can actually contribute to weight loss because the body is using up it's energy digesting food.

If you have any papaya tablets you can crush a tablet and sprinkle a pinch in each feeding. It helps with digestion and also can aid in nutrient absorption.

2 herbal extracts that have helped with babies going light/thin, is a drop each of Gentian, and Capsicum in the formula at each feeding.

Use Pedialyte to mix the formula because if the baby is digesting to quick it may also be dehydrating too.

Off hand I can not think of anything to help with the weight gain.

(((HUGS)))
 

WingedVictory

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Hi, this is what I would do to help him make it through the night. When birds get very weak they need complex carbohydrates, here I use Ultra fuel a sport energy drink recommended by Harrisons. I make a mixture of a very small amount of applesause, formula one hand feeding mix and Ultra fuel, (small bird 1/4 tsp). This mixture will bring a sick bird around very fast. If I did not know the bacteria count or if there was any budding yeast I would add a couple drops of ACV to the mix. Did the vet see any yeast or bacteria in the fecal or gram?

Best of luck with the little one, sure hope there is a miracle for him.

gary
 

Tamara

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Oh golly, I hate Exact formula. The moment we switched to Roudybush, we saw a huge difference. You shouldn't need to supplement the handfeeding formula at all if you use Roudybush. This is per my vet's advice and experience.

I'm sorry to hear of the puncture. There is really nothing you can do about that kindof thing. I always worry about stuff like that when our babies are crawling all over each other. Thankfully, the deaths we have had usually happen in the first 3 days which is a clear sign that they didn't absorb the egg sac right.

Also, another thing on Exact: when we got Ashlee she was on that formula and VERY sick. In fact, she had multiple bacterial infections and was not gaining weight correctly. Once we switched her over to Roudybush and also treated her infections, her weight gain was tremendous! She also stopped crying so much!

We notice our lovies digest the Roudybush so much better and it's easier to clean off them when it gets in their feathers. Exact tends to cake and cementify (if that's a word lol) when it gets in the feathers.

Dr. Burkett showed us how much of a difference Roudybush would make and we are glad we took his advice! We won't ever go back to Exact, even in a pinch!
 

Gibbey07

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Bad news, baby has a puncture in its esophagus. :( They said they can do surgery but chances of survival are slim and it is quite expensive. That would explain pretty much everything. They said it can happen when the parents are feeding the baby if they are rushing or when the babies are vigorously bobbing at each other or if they surprise a person bobbing too hard during hand feeding. Since the parents aren't feeding them and I know they didn't bump the syringe we are guessing that it is from when the babies bob at each other. I am going to have to let this little one go. Thanks everyone for your advice.
Keep this little baby in your thoughts. :sad2:
Oh dear Lord...I am SO SORRY!!!! :sad3: My thoughts and prayers go out to your little one....I am sure that he will be flying free in heaven...That is so sad I want to cry...Poor baby...I hope you're holding up...
 

Renae

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Oh how horrible. I truly hope you can figure something out before you feel you need to let him go. Please stay strong for him. :hug8:
 

Thugluvgrl187

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It sounds like he might have a yeast/bacterial infection. You can add a little Braggs ACV to the formula. Also when Squeeky was a baby I would give him organic applesauce mixed with his formula. The vet says this naturally helps baby birds pass food through their system and helps to avoid crop problems.
 

NikkiLS

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Thanks everyone...we lost him last night before we even left for the vet again. He was quite the little fighter.
Nicole
 

Big Blues

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:hug8:Nikki, so sad.
 
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