Anyone had problems leaving fresh food out?

[wonderb]

Olive potentially has a reinfection of klebsiella, which the pathologist has said could be from fresh food being left out for more than an hour. I've been leaving fresh food out for 2 hours. If she's hardly touched it in that time, I will leave it out for another 20 minutes or so before I toss it. It's not like I put it in there at 8 am and leave it until I get home from work. With my old birds, I would leave it out for probably even longer, they'd just stop eating it after a certain point and I never had a problem with anyone getting sick. I want her to get over this bug for good so I will be tossing a lot of food now. But now I'm wondering: Has anyone had problems with their birds getting sick from fresh food? If so, what kind of problems and what was the time frame?

 

[Mizzely]

I hope you get some valuable feedback...I have left some food out as long as 3 hours before (depending on what it is, how warm it is, etc, ) but usually remove around the 2 hour mark, and have not run into any issues.

 

[DQTimnehs]

I leave it longer but they eat what they like right away and either toss or leave the rest.

 

[JLcribber]

I personally have a hard time buying that she caught this from fresh food left out for 2 hours.

What kind of fresh food are we talking about??

 

[wonderb]

I personally have a hard time buying that she caught this from fresh food left out for 2 hours.

What kind of fresh food are we talking about??

The pathologist said RE-infection, so it would be more likely that she caught this from something else, then would essentially infect the food, and then eat it again, making it harder for the antibiotics to do their job. Or at least that was my interpretation of what my vet said, our interaction was brief as she was on her way out the door. The fresh food is chop, sometimes birdie bread, or sprouts (w/GSE). I washed the veggies in the chop with GSE. During her first round of the klebsiella, she was eating a different batch of chop.

 

[DQTimnehs]

Maybe it's the bowl(s). When Quack had a yeast infection, the vet told me to wash her bowls in bleach. I don't buy bleach and am not really comfortable using it on food bowls but maybe vinegar would do the same.

 

[Billie Faye]

I feed my birds FRESH live food in the AM and don't change it until 4pm...have been doing this for close to 20 years ....I use Cayenne pepper/Cinn powder on the cooked rice/legumes....I have never had an issue with my birds getting sick....You might want to read about the GSE that I posted in the Healthy section.....I have stopped using it and have gone to Unpasturized ACV....

 

[wonderb]

Maybe it's the bowl(s). When Quack had a yeast infection, the vet told me to wash her bowls in bleach. I don't buy bleach and am not really comfortable using it on food bowls but maybe vinegar would do the same.

Her fresh food bowls go straight in the dishwasher every time. Her dry food and water bowls get sprayed with F10 daily, after getting washed with hot soapy water.

 

[wonderb]

I feed my birds FRESH live food in the AM and don't change it until 4pm...have been doing this for close to 20 years ....I use Cayenne pepper/Cinn powder on the cooked rice/legumes....I have never had an issue with my birds getting sick....You might want to read about the GSE that I posted in the Healthy section.....I have stopped using it and have gone to Unpasturized ACV....

i just bought raw ACV today! But up until this time the sprouts had GSE. I think she probably came to me with klebsiella and we are just having trouble getting rid of the dang bug.

 

[JLcribber]

You have to be so careful with sprouts because they do mould so easily (and not always detectable by me anyway). You may want to just eliminate those for a while just to be sure and then there's no need for the GSE.

The thread BF posted about GSE was very interesting and it's not the first time I've read similar things from other sources.

 

[Ming-Ming]

Depending on the fresh food I usually leave it out from 10 am to 5 pm.
I find it is okay with most veggies and fruit if it is not too warm and the food isn't like mushy. But cooked food I only leave out for an hour.

 

[wonderb]

You have to be so careful with sprouts because they do mould so easily (and not always detectable by me anyway). You may want to just eliminate those for a while just to be sure and then there's no need for the GSE.

Yeah, my gut instinct is that she has a weakened immune system due to a history of poor nutrition. For that reason I will stop the sprouts for a while just in case. My vet did say that klebsiella is just a tough bug, even for birds that have a better history. I'm going to stick with the 1 hour limit to be safe.

I am wondering, though, if her toys are also a problem then? If she chews on them when she's sick and then while she's on medication or after it, could that be a source of reinfection?

 

[JLcribber]

It may not even be a "re-infection" but rather the infection was never really cured completely and just appeared better because it is so stubborn.

If it was my bird I would concentrate on feeding things that boost the immune system like the omegas (chia seed, hemp seed to name a couple) as well as making sure she was getting good levels and proper ratios of all the vitamins, minerals, amino acids which might only be achieved with a high quality supplement.

If you can get that immune system up to snuff it will take care of the rest on its own.

 

[Mrcrowley]

The pathologist said RE-infection, so it would be more likely that she caught this from something else, then would essentially infect the food, and then eat it again, making it harder for the antibiotics to do their job. Or at least that was my interpretation of what my vet said, our interaction was brief as she was on her way out the door. The fresh food is chop, sometimes birdie bread, or sprouts (w/GSE). I washed the veggies in the chop with GSE. During her first round of the klebsiella, she was eating a different batch of chop.

OK just throwing out ideas:
Water bowl
food that fell to bottom of cage
Perches dirty
old Foraging toys
Is she in dusty room near window
HMMM
Instead of naming all differnet Cinarios I would wash all food dishes,Scrub cage,and perches,just to make sure, and not drink and type at same time wish keyboard was water prooff I need a sippy cup when I drink (sigh)

 

[BirdsFTW]

My Mika got Klebsiella last summer from one of our foster birds (after that, we put the foster program on hold indefinitely). He ended up having to stay at the vet for five days to get twice-daily shots because the Culture & Sensitivity report showed that only the injectable med would clear it. The vet instructed me to have EVERYTHING disinfected, because Klebsiella is kind of a biggie and re-infection happens easily, so I just opted to throw almost EVERYTHING out. I didn't want to risk re-infection whatsoever so I got new cages, all new toys, etc. I started fresh with both Mika AND Raptors things, since I like everything to be matching. The only thing I had kept was the PVC playgym because it was so easy to disinfect.

Re-infection for your bird could have come from any number of things, really. I'm not sure if you'd be willing to go to the extreme like I did, but I would highly suggest disinfecting EVERYTHING - cage, toys, perches, surfaces in the house - with F10. Also, if you are using plastic dishes I would switch to ceramic or stainless steel because plastic can harbor bacteria easily.

Also, Mika has a very weak immune system himself after having been on different broad spectrum-antibiotics for an entire year. Long story, but lovebird experts that were given the list of meds Mika was on said they are shocked he isn't dead. Since last summer, I have had him on the powder Avi-Immune by Avitech, along with their AviBios probiotics. Now that Avitech has their Herbal Extracts line, I've got the powder Avi-Immune on hold and have started giving him the liquid Immune Booster and Pau D'Arco (suggested by the company after giving them Mika's health history) as of yesterday. The powder Avi-Immune can be used long-term, but the Herbal Extracts Immune Booster and Pau D'Arco is not for long-term use (the company suggested one month on, a couple or few months off).

 

[Irishj9]

Agreed, its unlikely to be the fresh food. I leave fresh fruit for the fids every morning 6am ( thru the African summer) and its usually only changed at midday.

I support the plan of disinfecting everything and then working on her immune system

 

[wonderb]

My Mika got Klebsiella last summer from one of our foster birds (after that, we put the foster program on hold indefinitely). He ended up having to stay at the vet for five days to get twice-daily shots because the Culture & Sensitivity report showed that only the injectable med would clear it. The vet instructed me to have EVERYTHING disinfected, because Klebsiella is kind of a biggie and re-infection happens easily, so I just opted to throw almost EVERYTHING out. I didn't want to risk re-infection whatsoever so I got new cages, all new toys, etc. I started fresh with both Mika AND Raptors things, since I like everything to be matching. The only thing I had kept was the PVC playgym because it was so easy to disinfect.

Re-infection for your bird could have come from any number of things, really. I'm not sure if you'd be willing to go to the extreme like I did, but I would highly suggest disinfecting EVERYTHING - cage, toys, perches, surfaces in the house - with F10. Also, if you are using plastic dishes I would switch to ceramic or stainless steel because plastic can harbor bacteria easily.

Also, Mika has a very weak immune system himself after having been on different broad spectrum-antibiotics for an entire year. Long story, but lovebird experts that were given the list of meds Mika was on said they are shocked he isn't dead. Since last summer, I have had him on the powder Avi-Immune by Avitech, along with their AviBios probiotics. Now that Avitech has their Herbal Extracts line, I've got the powder Avi-Immune on hold and have started giving him the liquid Immune Booster and Pau D'Arco (suggested by the company after giving them Mika's health history) as of yesterday. The powder Avi-Immune can be used long-term, but the Herbal Extracts Immune Booster and Pau D'Arco is not for long-term use (the company suggested one month on, a couple or few months off).

Thanks for the information, it is helpful. I've been working on boosting her immune system since I got her, with a good diet including omega 3 and vitamin A rich foods. I give her Harrison's Booster (concentrated red palm oil), and Avi-culture probiotics (2x a day for the last several months). I have full spectrum lighting and try to get her as much sunlight as possible. She also has an air purifier in her room running 24/7, as her infection is respiratory.

Unfortunately I cannot throw everything out. I just bought most of it, as I've only had Olive since February. I've been regularly disinfecting but it would probably be a good idea to toss some of her toys. Her bowls are SS and the type of cage she has disinfects easily and thoroughly. I don't even know for sure that it is klebsiella again, I'm just acting on my vet's suspicion at this point while I wait for tests results.

 

[sodakat]

I just want to point out that sprouts are live foods and continue growing throughout the day, IF you sprout them yourself and feed them when tails are short. I would NEVER feed store bought sprouts, especially bean sprouts because those are grown commercially with chemicals and gasses.

Not at all trying to encourage you to feed Olive sprouts right now, just wanted to point out the facts for someone reading this thread who has a healthy bird. Fresh sprouts do not mold, they continue to grow throughout the day. The most they might do is dry out.

 

[GG.]

Yeah, my gut instinct is that she has a weakened immune system due to a history of poor nutrition. For that reason I will stop the sprouts for a while just in case. My vet did say that klebsiella is just a tough bug, even for birds that have a better history. I'm going to stick with the 1 hour limit to be safe.

I am wondering, though, if her toys are also a problem then? If she chews on them when she's sick and then while she's on medication or after it, could that be a source of reinfection?

if you have not disinfected her toys while she has been ill, it would be a good idea to do so - you can do so with the F10 that you have

 

[wonderb]

if you have not disinfected her toys while she has been ill, it would be a good idea to do so - you can do so with the F10 that you have

I've disinfected as much as possible, but I think I'm going to toss the wood and shreddable parts to be safe. Maybe after she's been on the correct antibiotic for a couple days. Hopefully we'll know that soon.