• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

ACV Cage Disinfectant?

Tiel lover

Meeting neighbors
Joined
2/26/19
Messages
64
I thought i read this somewhere, but i can’t seem to find it anywhere. ACV is a disinfectant that can be used without dilution on bird cages correct? And does it have to be rinsed off afterwards? Can ACV be used to disinfect food bowls and toys as well or is a bleach solution more appropriate? This is a pretty basic question, sorry if it has been asked before i just couldn’t find anything. Thanks
 

Mizzely

Lil Monsters Bird Toys
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
TAILGATING!!!
Joined
8/9/11
Messages
29,176
Location
Northern Mitten Michigan
Real Name
Shawna
Vinegar is only effective against some things, and usually needs a high contact time (like 30 mins) against those it is effective on. As a general cleaner it is fine, but if you are looking to disinfect, F10 Veterinary Disinfectant is a great, safe option. Diluted bleach (10:1) is good but you'll want to be able to rinse afterwards (F10 doesn't need to be rinsed).

I don't disinfect bowls! I wash like normal in the sink or dishwasher
 

Hankmacaw

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
11,978
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
F-10 is by far the best disinfectant on the market for birds. It never needs to be rinsed off, it will not harm your bird if you clean while the bird is present and it leaves a layer of disinfectant after it dries. F-10 kills the greatest number of virus', bacteria and fungus of any product on the market.

I never use vinegar, because it doesn't do much of any good.

You can buy it here; Wholesale F10SC Veterinary Disinfectant
 

Tielygirl

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/8/09
Messages
1,567
Location
MN
Honestly, If you guys want the opinion of a microbiologist who did disinfection efficacy testing for a few years...

It really depends on what you are trying to kill. There isnt really one product on the market that will kill everything. What kills one, wont another. So we have to think about what needs to be killed. We have 3 categories of organisms we can choose to kill: Bacteria, Yeast, and Mold. If you regularly clean then you dont have to worry about mold/yeast as much.
1. Mold is found everywhere, in your carpet, the wood in your house, cardboard is a HUGE offender, etc.
2. Yeast is only a problem if you introduce it in something- under cooked bread being the most likely. Unless you have bad hygiene, then you can bring it to your bird.
3. Bacteria is the main bug we have to worry about - Staphylococcus infections can happen on skin/respiratory/etc, water borne bacteria can be bad (clean the water bowl every day/every other day at a min) but waterborne bacteria like it cool, so the bird body is generally much too hot for them - they would have to get into the bloodstream to cause harm (this would be a Pseudomonas infection). Disclaimer *** Staph is literally found everywhere, on your skin, etc, some species are more hostile than others, and most are only opportunistic predators - meaning if they get into a cut theyll cause a problem, but if theyre on your skin they wont bother you****


OK now we have an idea of what we need to kill we should learn about disinfectants and sanitizers.

Disinfectant = kills/destroys bacteria on a surface
Sanitizing = reduces the bacteria on a surface

We should sanitize as needed daily, and do a weekly or Bi-monthly disinfection.

What kinds of cleaners are out there??
Here are the "big 4"
1. Bleach based (Clorox)
2. Acetic Acid based (vinegar)
3. Quaternary Ammonium solution / benzyl ammonium chloride (some Lysols)
4. Phenolics/ phenols (some Lysols)

Also keep in mind any of these in a mixed form lose potency the longer they exist. so Day 1 after opening and mixing will be more potent than day 7. Bleach should be mixed the day you use it and dumped. Vinegar can be used for about a week mixed, and Quats are very stable (1 month). Phenols break down by the hour max use - 14 hours before dumping.

DO NOT MIX BLEACH AND QUATS - you will make chlorine gas which is HIGHLY TOXIC. Actually mixing any of these together isnt a good idea unless you have some chemistry knowledge.

Having worked in a cleanroom where we made pharmaceutical drugs I can give you a very in depth review of what grows where and how to kill absolutely everything around you, but you dont need that. You just need to keep the regular bad ones at a low enough level so nobody gets sick.

And Yes Contact time generally matters! However, using soap and wiping does basically the same thing in a shorter time. make sure you rinse your rag out plenty of times, because the bacteria go into the bucket and die.

Truth be told- all of the above products work really well, it depends on how you concentrate it. Vinegar is my least favorite - it tends to strip the powder coating on the cages. Bleach is corrosive, quats and phenols can be corrosive too.

I prefer bleach, I toss a cap/half cap full into 3-4 gallons with some dish soap.

I really hope this was informative!! If you guys want to talk about disinfecting further than surfaces I can do something on that as well!
 

Hankmacaw

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
11,978
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
Virus' you didn't mention virus', such as pbfd. F-10 kills virus's.
Are you saying that F-10 is not an effective disinfectant?
I do not use bleach, due to the vapor from it and that it is much safer to rinse it.

All of F-10' s independent lab methods and results are available on their site.
Health and Hygiene, Ltd.
PO Box 906
Florida Hill, South Africa
Tel. 27 (0)11 474 1668
email; info@F10products.com
Inet Site; F10® products are comprised of a hygiene and infection control range and a topical treatments products range.
 

Lady Jane

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/25/12
Messages
23,197
Location
Maryland
Real Name
Dianne
Thanks for this input. You did not mention viruses. Would that be a bleach solution for cleaning?
 

Tielygirl

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/8/09
Messages
1,567
Location
MN
@Lady Jane and @Hankmacaw

Very good points and question. What about Viruses?

Well, most viruses that we are concerned with are human type, and not known to be zoonotic (move between animals and humans). The Flu generally moves from animal to human. I have discussed this with the vet and it is not known to go to parrots (heaven forbid this ever happens it will not be good).

For the 'common' viruses I am not concerned because a lot of them are envelope viruses.
An envelope around a virus is a "lipid membrane" an example of this is fat, fats are lipids chained together. The BEST way to get rid of these kinds of viruses? SOAP. soap has 2 ends to it a hydrophilic and a hydrophobic end (water-loving vs water-hating). soap attaches to lipid layers (grease, fat, food, etc) and pulls it apart into water. Well it does the same thing to viruses.

COVID-19 is an envelop virus, and this is a big reason the CDC pushes hand washing with soap over sanitizing with alcohol. Alcohol doesnt really do anything to viruses unless its been submerged in >70% Isopropyl or >60% Ethyl alcohol for 3-5 minutes whereas soap literally takes it apart and kills it.

Another point is this: MOST viruses require a host to survive. Most viruses die within a few hours outside of a host. In college I got to explore the difficulties in growing viruses. its hard, and you have to have the right conditions (which is why most viruses are studied in situ - in their host).

@Hankmacaw About F10, I dont have a lot of experience using it because it is not common in the US. But what I was talking about is ingredients, not necessarily brands- even though I put examples in parenthesis. I looked it up: SDS F10SC vet disinfectant
It has one of the ingredients listed above ;) And yes, it would work well I imagine, I just prefer bleach.

1598821724784.png


For bird related viruses? This is tricky, I havent looked at the type they are as much as I have human ones. I would hope that if you have something like PBFD in your flock you would be aware of it. If you are trying to maintain control of it something with a surfactant would be good (soap) and a disinfectant. so if you can mix soap in your cleaner if you are really worried about it.

I use bleach with dawn soap, bleach will kill anything I am worried about and soap helps remove grime on the cages.

I really enjoyed this! I really hope this was helpful, and feel free to shoot more questions at me. :) Thank you!
 

Lady Jane

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/25/12
Messages
23,197
Location
Maryland
Real Name
Dianne
If I understand what you are saying about soap being more effective for viruses than alcohol, then the hand sanitizers are not all that good in time of a virus pandemic. Am I understanding correctly?

Thanks again for your expertise.
 

Hankmacaw

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
11,978
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
I was not considering any uses for humans, zoonotic or not zoonotic, only for bird equipment as asked in the original post. As far as viruses go in birds here is a list of the most common viruses that birds are susceptible to;
My vet says there are over 50 viruses that birds can catch - but the Merck list are the most common. F10 kills all of them.

As far as F10 being common in the US, it is very common among reptile and bird people. I don't know how many exactly who are members of the forum use it, but the number is large. Almost all veterinarians use it in their practice.
 

Tielygirl

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/8/09
Messages
1,567
Location
MN
If I understand what you are saying about soap being more effective for viruses than alcohol, then the hand sanitizers are not all that good in time of a virus pandemic. Am I understanding correctly?

Thanks again for your expertise.
Yes you are correct.
 

Tielygirl

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/8/09
Messages
1,567
Location
MN
I was not considering any uses for humans, zoonotic or not zoonotic, only for bird equipment as asked in the original post. As far as viruses go in birds here is a list of the most common viruses that birds are susceptible to;
My vet says there are over 50 viruses that birds can catch - but the Merck list are the most common. F10 kills all of them.

As far as F10 being common in the US, it is very common among reptile and bird people. I don't know how many exactly who are members of the forum use it, but the number is large. Almost all veterinarians use it in their practice.
Bird equipment vs human /animal use it honeslty doesnt make that much difference. Viruses simply dont live that long on surfaces, and birds have immune systems to combat most of them. We dont want to make a space "too" clean as there are negative consequences associated with that.

Strickly speaking I am talking Medical device, food, cosmetics, and Pharmaceutical manufacturing industries - which is larger then the vet/animal community and has way more controls and requirements. There is also WAY more testing associated with the cleaning chemistries used in these fields - which is what I tested for. I used to certify cleaning products for pharmaceutical and medical device companies - and yes my data went to the FDA and had to be defended many times over.

BY ALL MEANS do as you please, I am simply giving out information based on my experience at seeing real data the lab I worked for generate. I literally grew all of these organisms and killed them with about every chemical you can think of.
 

MrPink

Meeting neighbors
Joined
9/6/20
Messages
28
Location
US
Real Name
Chelsea
I was not considering any uses for humans, zoonotic or not zoonotic, only for bird equipment as asked in the original post. As far as viruses go in birds here is a list of the most common viruses that birds are susceptible to;
My vet says there are over 50 viruses that birds can catch - but the Merck list are the most common. F10 kills all of them.

As far as F10 being common in the US, it is very common among reptile and bird people. I don't know how many exactly who are members of the forum use it, but the number is large. Almost all veterinarians use it in their practice.
Do you know a good source for where to get F10 in the US?
 

Kassiani

Jogging around the block
TAILGATING!!!
Joined
9/12/20
Messages
648
Location
US
F-10 is by far the best disinfectant on the market for birds. It never needs to be rinsed off, it will not harm your bird if you clean while the bird is present and it leaves a layer of disinfectant after it dries. F-10 kills the greatest number of virus', bacteria and fungus of any product on the market.

I never use vinegar, because it doesn't do much of any good.

You can buy it here; Wholesale F10SC Veterinary Disinfectant
Here is a link provided by @Hankmacaw, but they are out of stock at the moment.
 

Kassiani

Jogging around the block
TAILGATING!!!
Joined
9/12/20
Messages
648
Location
US
Yes you are correct.
My late husband was a molecular evolutionary biologist. He always hated the soaps that had added antibacterial agents. He would always say that soap and warm water did everything you need it to do--it is the 'gold standard' so to speak. So, yes, when you are out running errands from store to store, by all means use a hand sanitizer. But wash those hands thoroughly when you get home!
 

Matto

Jogging around the block
Vendor
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
9/24/17
Messages
916
Location
Baltimore
Real Name
Matt
Very interesting @Tielygirl ! What about UV sanitizers?
 
Top