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Zeva Hawkhead update <pic heavy>
- Thread starter Birdlover
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Well tomorrow we have an appointment to see about imping. I am so nervous, lol. It is a vet that I have not seen before but he only sees birds at his practice. Tomorrow is just a consult, to take a look at Zeva and the feathers I have saved to see if it is even possible.
Zeva is doing super good. I just adore that silly girl. She is such a sweetheart and is always so happy to hang out.It really is wonderful, especially on the days when Cash is feeling like a velociraptor. Last Friday I took them both to my parents house so I could get some extra help getting some wing pictures.They were both in travel cages side by side and I think it was a good bonding time for them
I have not had them out together yet - we are just not there yet (and also part of the reason for the imping so they are on a level playing field). I do notice that when they are in their home cages that they always seem to play at the same time. They will pause and watch what the other is doing.It is so funny. Yesterday I caught Zeva doing a bob dance like Cash does.... so cute. I love seeing him look over at what she is doing.I hope in time they will be good friends. Would be so fun to see them play together
Zeva is so much more active and playful in this cage.She didnt seem as interested in her stuff in the cage I had for her Q time.Im sure it is also a combination of being out with the other birds too. She tries to fly back to it when I have had her out for a long time. She really loves her corner perch - combination play area and sleeping spot. She loves to be tucked in behind her ball at night.... so cute
Zeva is doing super good. I just adore that silly girl. She is such a sweetheart and is always so happy to hang out.It really is wonderful, especially on the days when Cash is feeling like a velociraptor. Last Friday I took them both to my parents house so I could get some extra help getting some wing pictures.They were both in travel cages side by side and I think it was a good bonding time for them
I have not had them out together yet - we are just not there yet (and also part of the reason for the imping so they are on a level playing field). I do notice that when they are in their home cages that they always seem to play at the same time. They will pause and watch what the other is doing.It is so funny. Yesterday I caught Zeva doing a bob dance like Cash does.... so cute. I love seeing him look over at what she is doing.I hope in time they will be good friends. Would be so fun to see them play together Zeva is so much more active and playful in this cage.She didnt seem as interested in her stuff in the cage I had for her Q time.Im sure it is also a combination of being out with the other birds too. She tries to fly back to it when I have had her out for a long time. She really loves her corner perch - combination play area and sleeping spot. She loves to be tucked in behind her ball at night.... so cute
Awe I just love these guys! I've only ever seen them once at Tia's breeder...they were playing, jumping upside down and were really crazy. I've heard nothing but good things about them. I just love these guys.
I just love these guys.
Thugluvgrl187
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They are all so beautiful!
waterfaller1
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What a great update Jill! Let us know how it goes at the vet's. I think you are onto something with the "watch and play". Cochise never did some of the things he does now, because miss Holly does them. He even got a bit rowdy with stuff a few times, like chewing on toys that are in the other bird's cages from the outside. A favorite Holly pastime.
Let us know how it goes at the vet's. I think you are onto something with the "watch and play". Cochise never did some of the things he does now, because miss Holly does them. He even got a bit rowdy with stuff a few times, like chewing on toys that are in the other bird's cages from the outside. A favorite Holly pastime.
komodeno
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Nice little princes!
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The visit with Dr. Nemetz - mixed feelings. He was kind of an in your face guy with his opinion. I was a bit annoyed with how dismissive he was about the importance of flight. He has both clipped and flighted birds of his own. Got the impression that his clipped ones were clipped because of past history and behavior stuff.
"Parrots are designed to fly" - I dont know HOW this can be argued but he shook his head no. Really? While clipping is a personal decision and all that, I honestly dont know how it could be argued that parrots arent made to fly. He said he was fine with anyones decision to allow them to be flighted but dismissed anything beyond that.
"They can get better exercise by flying vs. having to walk/climb everywhere" - argued that too. Seriously?! To me that is like saying you get as good of a cardiovascular work out by walking (and I mean moseying down the road, not speedwalking) as you would running. He also commented that when a clipped bird flaps it is having to work harder than the flighted parrot. That may be true but I know from my own personal experience that my flighted birds (the ones that actually will) do a lot more flapping than the ones that had been clipped in the past and dont know what their wings are for. It has been work getting Cyan to flap her wings, let alone get her to fly from point a to point b on her own.
He also argued that a flighted bird is NOT safer if it escapes out the door.
He also says "Height Dominance" is true - which I know was a big thing in the past but from the more recent behavior stuff I have read, it is not. I do not believe in it - yes a bird will seek out the highest spot (security) but I just do not buy into the theory that they are "dominant" as a flock leader kind of thinking. Am I crazy? I know we have discussed this topic on the forums over the years and it is my recollection that the latest thinking dismisses it. He named off several behaviorists - I need to sit and think about it so I can look them up. Didnt like that I let her on my shoulder (I understand the risks and not all of my birds have that privilege). Again pointed out the "dominance" where the bird wont step up but run shoulder to shoulder and down your back. To which Zeva stepped up for me just fine, back and forth between my hand and shoulder several times during the visit. I love that sweetheart!
In the end, he said it was not worth it to do the imping on her. Her clip was done textbook perfect (everyone agrees it is a nice job). He was expecting to see a drastic clip (but I had even told him on the phone, the clip was perfect and accomplished what it is supposed to). She has 4 clipped feathers left to molt on each side, and he says in a few months they should be there. I am still a little bummed about it because to me it wouldnt be that big of a deal to replace at least 2-3 on each side and a few days is a nicer thought than a few months. I adore my baby Zeva girl and wouldnt want to do anything that would harm her obviously. He said the risk (anesthesia) would be greater than the benefit (she would have the feathers attached but still might not be able to fly if they werent just right). He had said it takes "hours" do do a proper job and while I can see that on a drastic clip (10+ feathers) I dont think it would take that long on just the outer 3. He went on to say "what if she molted one in a few days/weeks, then you would be worse off" which I dont understand because if it were molted a new one would be coming in right after it! And she would still have the other 2 imped feathers,so to me it would be no different than a natural feather molt.
On the bright side, I did learn some stuff that may benefit Cyan. He had commented on Zeva being a picker (to which I disagreed) and he pointed out her legs. She has a tiny bit of down showing, and that hasnt changed. I disagreed that it was picking and he said it shouldnt be there. Also said that 99% of hawkheads he sees have some form of picking. He went on to explain that it is just something to watch because if it got more exaggerated it would need investigation. In females they can have enlarged or cystic ovaries that cause all sorts of issues and the more we talked about it the more I thought about Cyan
She had an egg binding episode several years ago - the egg was surgically collapsed but she never did pass it. He said that it would have demineralized but could still present an issue if she were to lay again. He also explained something about Trigycerides that are produced and that these females will have highly elevated levels and no amount of diet management will fix those levels. He has removed those types of ovaries and had the birds return to normal levels where hormone therapy failed, and it also fixed the weight issues. So on Monday I am taking Cyan to see my regular vet (Dr.Lavac) and have that blood panel done.
The feather picking stuff was interesting too because he really goes to great lengths to find the reason why. He said something like only 10% are behavior related, everything else is something medically wrong that can be diagnosed and he has had great success with that with the tools he has available now (digital radiography, etc).
My overall impression of Dr.Nemetz was of a fantastic diagnostician and surgeon but I certainly disagreed with other things (flight, behavior, etc) which is overall less important in treating something that I might go there for. We would just have to agree to disagree on that stuff. The office was very nice. I spent an hour there discussing various things with him and aside from the people that were there before me, I was the only one there even when I left. So in that sense you do get a lot of time for whatever you are going in for. In the end it was just over 100 bucks for his time and thats not too bad (95.95 for the exam/consult and 9.60 for the new patient chart).
"Parrots are designed to fly" - I dont know HOW this can be argued but he shook his head no. Really? While clipping is a personal decision and all that, I honestly dont know how it could be argued that parrots arent made to fly. He said he was fine with anyones decision to allow them to be flighted but dismissed anything beyond that.
"They can get better exercise by flying vs. having to walk/climb everywhere" - argued that too. Seriously?! To me that is like saying you get as good of a cardiovascular work out by walking (and I mean moseying down the road, not speedwalking) as you would running. He also commented that when a clipped bird flaps it is having to work harder than the flighted parrot. That may be true but I know from my own personal experience that my flighted birds (the ones that actually will) do a lot more flapping than the ones that had been clipped in the past and dont know what their wings are for. It has been work getting Cyan to flap her wings, let alone get her to fly from point a to point b on her own.
He also argued that a flighted bird is NOT safer if it escapes out the door.
He also says "Height Dominance" is true - which I know was a big thing in the past but from the more recent behavior stuff I have read, it is not. I do not believe in it - yes a bird will seek out the highest spot (security) but I just do not buy into the theory that they are "dominant" as a flock leader kind of thinking. Am I crazy? I know we have discussed this topic on the forums over the years and it is my recollection that the latest thinking dismisses it. He named off several behaviorists - I need to sit and think about it so I can look them up. Didnt like that I let her on my shoulder (I understand the risks and not all of my birds have that privilege). Again pointed out the "dominance" where the bird wont step up but run shoulder to shoulder and down your back. To which Zeva stepped up for me just fine, back and forth between my hand and shoulder several times during the visit.
I love that sweetheart! In the end, he said it was not worth it to do the imping on her. Her clip was done textbook perfect (everyone agrees it is a nice job). He was expecting to see a drastic clip (but I had even told him on the phone, the clip was perfect and accomplished what it is supposed to). She has 4 clipped feathers left to molt on each side, and he says in a few months they should be there. I am still a little bummed about it because to me it wouldnt be that big of a deal to replace at least 2-3 on each side and a few days is a nicer thought than a few months. I adore my baby Zeva girl and wouldnt want to do anything that would harm her obviously. He said the risk (anesthesia) would be greater than the benefit (she would have the feathers attached but still might not be able to fly if they werent just right). He had said it takes "hours" do do a proper job and while I can see that on a drastic clip (10+ feathers) I dont think it would take that long on just the outer 3. He went on to say "what if she molted one in a few days/weeks, then you would be worse off" which I dont understand because if it were molted a new one would be coming in right after it! And she would still have the other 2 imped feathers,so to me it would be no different than a natural feather molt.
On the bright side, I did learn some stuff that may benefit Cyan. He had commented on Zeva being a picker (to which I disagreed) and he pointed out her legs. She has a tiny bit of down showing, and that hasnt changed. I disagreed that it was picking and he said it shouldnt be there. Also said that 99% of hawkheads he sees have some form of picking. He went on to explain that it is just something to watch because if it got more exaggerated it would need investigation. In females they can have enlarged or cystic ovaries that cause all sorts of issues and the more we talked about it the more I thought about Cyan
She had an egg binding episode several years ago - the egg was surgically collapsed but she never did pass it. He said that it would have demineralized but could still present an issue if she were to lay again. He also explained something about Trigycerides that are produced and that these females will have highly elevated levels and no amount of diet management will fix those levels. He has removed those types of ovaries and had the birds return to normal levels where hormone therapy failed, and it also fixed the weight issues. So on Monday I am taking Cyan to see my regular vet (Dr.Lavac) and have that blood panel done.The feather picking stuff was interesting too because he really goes to great lengths to find the reason why. He said something like only 10% are behavior related, everything else is something medically wrong that can be diagnosed and he has had great success with that with the tools he has available now (digital radiography, etc).
My overall impression of Dr.Nemetz was of a fantastic diagnostician and surgeon but I certainly disagreed with other things (flight, behavior, etc) which is overall less important in treating something that I might go there for. We would just have to agree to disagree on that stuff. The office was very nice. I spent an hour there discussing various things with him and aside from the people that were there before me, I was the only one there even when I left. So in that sense you do get a lot of time for whatever you are going in for. In the end it was just over 100 bucks for his time and thats not too bad (95.95 for the exam/consult and 9.60 for the new patient chart).
waterfaller1
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Thank you for the update. Interesting , but I am glad you stick to your beliefs about flight and stuff. Glad it wasn't a total waste, and you did learn somethings. I have found all vets we have seen have strong and weak points.
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Overall I am glad that I went. I think given the right situation I would go back. If something comes out of it for Cyan, It would be SO worth it. She has not been the same since that whole egg thing, Lupron and one other injection we tried has not fixed this whining hormonal behavior of hers. So, that should be interesting to look into.
ETA: I knew I was not crazy.
http://www.parrothouse.com/pamelaclark/feathersandflight.html
I mean this is what we have been coping with day in, day out for the past several years... Sorry but it IS annoying
If it were a medical thing that could be corrected I would be so grateful.i would hate to think there was something wrong all this time and we just didnt know it. The stuff he was talking to me about is all very recent findings, not something that would have been looked for when it was happening.
ETA: I knew I was not crazy.
http://www.parrothouse.com/pamelaclark/feathersandflight.html
I mean this is what we have been coping with day in, day out for the past several years... Sorry but it IS annoying
If it were a medical thing that could be corrected I would be so grateful.i would hate to think there was something wrong all this time and we just didnt know it. The stuff he was talking to me about is all very recent findings, not something that would have been looked for when it was happening.
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Good info Jill
It sounds like he would only do a surgery if he believed in it and that the benefits outweigh the risks. To me, that is an excellent doctor
It sounds like he would only do a surgery if he believed in it and that the benefits outweigh the risks. To me, that is an excellent doctor
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I agree, he seems like he is very good. I just dont agree on some of the other stuff he had to say but that is okay. Less important than the rest of it in which he seems to be highly skilled I am still disappointed we couldnt do it, but her safety is the most important thing of course. The good news is I found a molted feather today So maybe it wont be too much longer anyway.
She is so cute, I just love the girl to pieces. I had just gotten her out yesterday and DH tried to take her from me and she lunged at him Naughty but I have to say a part of me was screaming with joy that she is my bird and not his. About time!! They always seem to gravitate toward him for some reason. Funny because he isnt "a bird person" 
I am still disappointed we couldnt do it, but her safety is the most important thing of course. The good news is I found a molted feather today So maybe it wont be too much longer anyway.She is so cute, I just love the girl to pieces. I had just gotten her out yesterday and DH tried to take her from me and she lunged at him
Naughty but I have to say a part of me was screaming with joy that she is my bird and not his. About time!! They always seem to gravitate toward him for some reason. Funny because he isnt "a bird person" 
Thats funny to her about Zeva falling for you. She is precious. Congrats again on the addition!! Stick to your own beliefs about flight, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter what way you form it. I'm glad something may come from your trip for Cyan.
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I can not tell you how happy it makes me to have her pick me. I figured the odds were good since she loved Tanya so much too She is just such a joy to have and I completely adore that little girl
Had another vet visit yesterday,with my regular vet (Dr.Lavac). Had SUCH a great talk and I feel much better. He and I have similar thoughts about flight and behavior so my ruffled feathers arent so ruffled anymore, lol. We also discussed Cyan and ran bloodwork to be safe. He doesnt feel that there is likely anything wrong with her thankfully. She is in good weight and has been doing good since her surgery a few years ago. Her weight was up from her last visit but down from when I had first brought her in. So all in all, things look good. I will have bloodwork results back today probably.
Zeva was microchipped while we were there also. Poor girl was so stressed when he first came in I feel like the visit with that other vet last week really stressed/traumatized her. Nothing was done aside from a physical exam and looking at her wings, but he had her restrained for an excessive amount of time I was just about to ask (tell) him to let her go when he did. She just doesnt deal well with being toweled. I was upset at the reaction she had yesterday, she was happy to see the vet before But for now its all done, she wont have to go anywhere for a long wile Im sure.
She is just such a joy to have and I completely adore that little girlHad another vet visit yesterday,with my regular vet (Dr.Lavac). Had SUCH a great talk and I feel much better. He and I have similar thoughts about flight and behavior so my ruffled feathers arent so ruffled anymore, lol. We also discussed Cyan and ran bloodwork to be safe. He doesnt feel that there is likely anything wrong with her thankfully. She is in good weight and has been doing good since her surgery a few years ago. Her weight was up from her last visit but down from when I had first brought her in. So all in all, things look good. I will have bloodwork results back today probably.
Zeva was microchipped while we were there also. Poor girl was so stressed when he first came in
I feel like the visit with that other vet last week really stressed/traumatized her. Nothing was done aside from a physical exam and looking at her wings, but he had her restrained for an excessive amount of time I was just about to ask (tell) him to let her go when he did. She just doesnt deal well with being toweled. I was upset at the reaction she had yesterday, she was happy to see the vet before But for now its all done, she wont have to go anywhere for a long wile Im sure.
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Sapphire Moon
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