Vomiting medication + gas/bloating

[soleaux]

Hi, all.

Basil has been sick for about a month now. On Tuesday, we did a series of contrast dye studies at A&M that revealed a lot of gas in her gut and pooling of dye at the coelum near her cloaca. Despite this she appears to poop fine, but due to GI bleeding her stools have dark/digested blood. The A&M vet suspects clostridium, but we didn’t see any spores and still don’t have many leads on what’s wrong.

Current medications:
Carafate (0.05 twice a day) - been on for 1 month
Baytril (0.05 once a day) - 1 month
Sporanox (0.03 twice a day) - 2 weeks

Prior to this I haven’t seen any symptoms of appetite loss, nausea, etc. Carafate did make her strain for a few days initially, but now she has no problem.

The vet at A&M gave me some metronidazole, metacam, and therabloat. 24 hours after I gave her the new meds, in the AM I noticed her crop was still full from the night before and she tried to regurgitate upon waking up. I tried to give her some metoclopramide for nausea but she threw that up. It took her hours of regurging to finally vomit (violently) and completely empty her crop. She started eating/drinking later in the day and kept it down. I didn’t give her any medication for the rest of the day.

This morning after getting subq fluids from the vet, she threw up minutes after getting some sporanox + metronidazole + Emeraid. I figured the metro was the culprit because it was the newest addition to the regimen and I heard that it tastes horrible and causes GI upset. The rest of the day seemed fine, no vomiting and lots of eating/drinking/pooping.

She seemed a bit unsteady (not weak, but almost as if dizzy/nauseated with the occasional head bob) so I decided to skip on the other meds again (minus the two doses of carafate which she took just fine) and give her some metaclopramide for the nausea in the evening, but she puked that up immediately. She had eaten earlier so it wasn’t on an empty stomach.

I am a bit at a loss of what to do now. She seems to take the carafate alright, but now that she started vomiting and is still so thin, I’m afraid of giving her the other meds and pushing her to her limit.. should I stop giving everything minus carafate for a few days and wait for her nausea to settle down? Or keep trying with some apple sauce or juice in the syringe? She seems really weak after vomiting so I’m afraid to push her. Is there anything I can also do at home to help reduce her bloat/gas? I feel like that may be contributing to her nausea as well..

 

[Mizzely]

I have no idea but wanted to bump this up and let you know I'm thinking about you

 

[iamwhoiam]

Sorry that Basil is still ill. My bird did not do well with Sporanox. She had frequent bouts of vomiting and did have to be tube fed many times. She vomited more when she was on the Sporanox. She was also on ketoconazole at one time and then Nystatin. Reglan (Metoclopramide) was sometimes effective and sometimes ineffective. I also was adding some ginger to her water to help with the nausea. I would steep some fresh ginger in hot water and then add some of that water to her drinking water. This was recommended by the vet. I wish I could be more helpful. Did the vet suggest keeping Basil for a bit and tube feeding?
If a new medication has been added as you indicated and now she is vomiting it could be one medication or a combination of the medications. Flagyl (metronidazole) can cause nausea and vomiting. Becca was on that one, too, and if I remember correctly she didn't do well with that medication. It really is difficult to tell you what to do. I was at a loss with Becca as were her vets. We would eliminate meds, switch meds, etc. Sometimes I felt as if it was all becoming trial and error and experimentation.
Also started her on vetri-DMG and you should check with your vet regarding that as well as regarding the ginger.
Hoping that things will improve.

 

[enigma731]

If she were my bird, I would push for injectable Reglan.

 

[soleaux]

I have no idea but wanted to bump this up and let you know I'm thinking about you

 

[soleaux]

Sorry that Basil is still ill. My bird did not do well with Sporanox. She had frequent bouts of vomiting and did have to be tube fed many times. She vomited more when she was on the Sporanox. She was also on ketoconazole at one time and then Nystatin. Reglan (Metoclopramide) was sometimes effective and sometimes ineffective. I also was adding some ginger to her water to help with the nausea. I would steep some fresh ginger in hot water and then add some of that water to her drinking water. This was recommended by the vet. I wish I could be more helpful. Did the vet suggest keeping Basil for a bit and tube feeding?
If a new medication has been added as you indicated and now she is vomiting it could be one medication or a combination of the medications. Flagyl (metronidazole) can cause nausea and vomiting. Becca was on that one, too, and if I remember correctly she didn't do well with that medication. It really is difficult to tell you what to do. I was at a loss with Becca as were her vets. We would eliminate meds, switch meds, etc. Sometimes I felt as if it was all becoming trial and error and experimentation.
Also started her on vetri-DMG and you should check with your vet regarding that as well as regarding the ginger.
Hoping that things will improve.

Do you remember what your vet used as an alternative to metronidazole? I’ll ask mine about ginger and the vetriDMG. Unfortunately the clinic we have is really small, they do not have hospitalization or after hours, and my vet only works 2 days a week. The only other clinic in the area that hospitalizes and takes birds is the emergency vet clinic, and I do not trust it based on some really scary reviews of the clinic being careless or euthanizing the wrong pet.

@enigma731 I will ask about injecting the medication.

Since she’s been off antibiotics for two days, already I notice bigger undigested chunks in her poop. I did get her to take her morning dose of sporanox and metoclopramide with apple juice, with only a few head bobs but no vomiting. Basil is making a noise now that I’ve never heard before, I showed a video to my vet and she said it was probably “pathetic bird noises” as if in pain. She does it a lot more frequently now. It makes me so sad that she is so miserable, she looks weak and is constantly making this noise and we still have no leads. I am getting more and more desperate, I fear with this vomiting now and her body condition so terrible and little to no options to hospitalize her that we are running out of time. I have half a mind to go out of state to see Dr Echols or Orosz.. but I fear the trip out there would be too stressful.

 

[enigma731]

Will your vet teach you to do injections and tube feeds/fluids? If you're able, that could be a viable alternative to hospitalization.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Didn't the Dr. give you Metacam? That is for pain and swelling. Try seeing how she will tolerate that.
Sporonox (Itraconazole will definitely make them nauseous ) it is a fungicide)
My hank reacted horribly to Flagyl - but that is not uncommon in GWs
Have you tried Prozyme - it is innocuous and actually predigests the food?

Poor, poor Basil. He must be miserable. Once when Hank was horribly ill he made the whining noises because he was in so much pain - it tore my heart out.
You are doing all you can and that is all you can do.

 

[soleaux]

I just texted my vet to ask her about learning to tube feed, apparently they do have EC but only a few days out of the weekday. Certainly better than nothing. We will go in today for a cerenia injection.

I did get metacam, but her droppings got darker so I was afraid it made the GI bleed worse since it’s an NSAID. I’ll ask about other pain meds today though. I have been using prozyme in her food as well.
It is so horrible to hear isn’t it.. and wishing with all your heart to take the pain away

 

[Hankmacaw]

Tylenol, Gabapentin are other pain medications that are not NSAIds.

Cerenia worked well on Jasper for nausea relief and appetite encouragement.

 

[soleaux]

I am so glad it worked well for Jasper. I hope it is effective for Basil too.

It is storming and raining so hard I won’t be able to make it to the clinic in time before they close for the cerenia and pain medication. I hope she can hang on until Monday..

She really breaks my heart. She keeps making that “i am in pain” noise and trying to crawl into my hand as if I can take away her pain.
When I hold her in my palms she stops making the noise and closes her eyes

 

[enigma731]

It won't be a magic fix, but are you giving her supplemental heat? That might at least help her be more comfortable.

I know others here have mentioned vets that do phone consults. @Hankmacaw can you help me recall which vets those are? That might also be an option besides going out of state.

 

[iamwhoiam]

Do you remember what your vet used as an alternative to metronidazole? I’ll ask mine about ginger and the vetriDMG. Unfortunately the clinic we have is really small, they do not have hospitalization or after hours, and my vet only works 2 days a week. The only other clinic in the area that hospitalizes and takes birds is the emergency vet clinic, and I do not trust it based on some really scary reviews of the clinic being careless or euthanizing the wrong pet.

I know that she was on Baytril and there were other antibiotics that were used. I think she might have also been on amoxicillin at one time. I will try and remember where I put her medical records. I am no longer in contact with that vet and have no plans to ever contact that place again due to reasons unrelated to Becca.

Supplemental heat as per enigma731 may be a good idea. I actually purchased an animal intensive care unit from the previous vet and I was able to use that during the times when Becca was at her worse. I could control both the heat and the humidity. Mine is an older version of that one.

I was taught how to do intramuscular injections so I could inject Becca with vitamin B12 as an appetite stimulant. She was also injected multiple times when she was at the vet....different meds. She did exhibit loss of muscle mass due to the number of injections over those years when she was sick. I have to tell you I absolutely hated doing those injections but, luckily, Becca never hated me because of that. Finally stopped because they no longer seemed to be beneficial.

Sending positive thoughts for Basil. Try to hang in there and be positive for her. I know when I stressed out with Becca it only made things worse. However, I also know that it is easy to say but hard to do.

 

[sunnysmom]

I hope she feels better. Baytril actually made my cockatiel throw up. We had to take him off of it and put him on a different antibiotic.

 

[soleaux]

It won't be a magic fix, but are you giving her supplemental heat? That might at least help her be more comfortable.

I know others here have mentioned vets that do phone consults. @Hankmacaw can you help me recall which vets those are? That might also be an option besides going out of state.

I’ve been keeping her at 85-90, she gets so restless in a hospital cage and her cage is too big for a heating pad so she’s in my room with a space heater. I have the window cracked for humidity since it’s been raining so much but she’s been itching and scratching a lot so I think it’s not enough, I plan on going out to get a humidifier today.

 

[soleaux]

I know that she was on Baytril and there were other antibiotics that were used. I think she might have also been on amoxicillin at one time. I will try and remember where I put her medical records. I am no longer in contact with that vet and have no plans to ever contact that place again due to reasons unrelated to Becca.

Supplemental heat as per enigma731 may be a good idea. I actually purchased an animal intensive care unit from the previous vet and I was able to use that during the times when Becca was at her worse. I could control both the heat and the humidity. Mine is an older version of that one.

I was taught how to do intramuscular injections so I could inject Becca with vitamin B12 as an appetite stimulant. She was also injected multiple times when she was at the vet....different meds. She did exhibit loss of muscle mass due to the number of injections over those years when she was sick. I have to tell you I absolutely hated doing those injections but, luckily, Becca never hated me because of that. Finally stopped because they no longer seemed to be beneficial.

Sending positive thoughts for Basil. Try to hang in there and be positive for her. I know when I stressed out with Becca it only made things worse. However, I also know that it is easy to say but hard to do.

I’m glad that the ICU worked well for her. I have a feeling this would be out of my budget on top of the upcoming vet bills, all I’m doing now is heating and humidifying the whole room to whatever needed. Whenever I walk out of my sweltering room to the rest of the house (75 F) it almost feels cold

Injections would be so nerve wracking, I would be so nervous to do them if it got that bad She is such an angel and takes her medication without fuss, despite having to hold her down and shove syringes in her face she still never bites me, so I think she wouldn’t hate me if we had to do that. Thank you so much, I just have to hope that each coming day will be better than the last.

I hope she feels better. Baytril actually made my cockatiel throw up. We had to take him off of it and put him on a different antibiotic.

Basil was on baytril for so long without any signs of nausea so I assumed that she was okay with it, but right now I’m not even sure anymore what medication is causing her to feel so nauseated. It really stinks because we don’t even know what we’re treating yet, just piling up more and more for “what ifs” that make her feel so lousy.

 

[enigma731]

I have faith that you could do injections if you needed to. It's not technically difficult, although I will admit it always made me cringe (even though I'm type 1 diabetic so super used to injecting myself).

 

[iamwhoiam]

I’m glad that the ICU worked well for her. I have a feeling this would be out of my budget on top of the upcoming vet bills, all I’m doing now is heating and humidifying the whole room to whatever needed. Whenever I walk out of my sweltering room to the rest of the house (75 F) it almost feels cold

Injections would be so nerve wracking, I would be so nervous to do them if it got that bad She is such an angel and takes her medication without fuss, despite having to hold her down and shove syringes in her face she still n, so I think she wouldn’t hate me if we had to do that. Thank you so much, I just have to hope that each coming day will be better than the last.

I was lucky with the unit because the vet gave me a break on the price. Still it was expensive but not as much as it would have cost if I had purchased it directly from a vendor. You can set up a hospital unit for a lot less than I paid for the AICU. I've used the unit for other birds when needed.

It was difficult doing the injections but my options were doing it by myself or taking her to the vet every day and the vet was 45 mins to over an hour away depending on traffic. The drive could be stressful for her as well as me and I knew I just had to grin and bear it and do it.

 

[webchirp]

Is tramadol an option for pain for her? Hachi was on it for arthritis and she did well tolerating it. Might increase appetite too.

I'm so sorry she is unwell.

 

[enigma731]

I second tramadol. Or Torb.