Pictures Two birds I can do the grab with

[ArtBird]

Question: What is OH? Other husband? hahahaa




Bird is fully relaxed....nothing harmful. That Senegal is probably the best socialized bird I have ever seen. To the uneducated it seems cruel....nothing can be further from the truth....

Of course, I know I have much more to learn about handling birds and training etc...all of it.

@Wayne361 @ArtBird @gibsongrrrl ...

That seemingly dangerous neck dangling method is actually very safe when done correctly, it's used by avian veterinarians as a means to securely restrain a bird.
Here is a video of "AviStraint", a straight jacket developed by an avian vet for birds during checkups. Every bird in the video is held by the neck while being restrained.
AviStraint

Yes, the article also stated:
We recommend that owners do not restrain their own birds. Pet birds can become distrustful of owners when handled this way; some birds forgive, others do not. Good parrot-owner relationships are totally dependent on trust.

I have a personal dislike for this, and will not use it on my bird. My parrot is so tame, I can pick him up by the tail, feet, back, etc...I do not need to use this method, and I just have a really strong dislike of it. I'm not stupid, ignorant or uneducated.

 

[GlassOnion]

I think it is quite clear that Kili is absolutely not traumatized or upset in any way by being held in that restraint. The reason that Michael holds her that way is just to desensitize her to being grabbed in any manner. Being desensitized to it means that vet visits are less stressful, and there's a lesser likelihood of being bitten by your parrot by touching him the wrong way. Also, in the case of emergencies, it is important to be able to grab your bird quickly and safely.. But personally, I haven't ever felt the need to do that particular hold for my own birds.

 

[gibsongrrrl]

@Wayne361 @ArtBird @gibsongrrrl ...

That seemingly dangerous neck dangling method is actually very safe when done correctly, it's used by avian veterinarians as a means to securely restrain a bird.
Here is a video of "AviStraint", a straight jacket developed by an avian vet for birds during checkups. Every bird in the video is held by the neck while being restrained.

AviStraint

"If you are not familiar with the techniques of avian restraint, please do not be alarmed. No birds were harmed during filming. Avian patients are commonly restrained using an encircling grip around the neck, below the mandible. This is a bird-safe restraint method because no pressure is being applied to the structures of the neck."

I actually worked for Dr. B, who invented the avistraint, for 3 years up until march and we never restrain a bird by the neck without holding onto the feet also, for safety reasons. Even when doing a nail trim or examining a foot, someone is holding at least one leg, as you can see in the video. I do highly recommend the AviStraint if anyone is curious. Keeps them very calm and doesn't mess up feathers or increase body temperature like a towel does.

 

[gibsongrrrl]

the main concern is that a bird could break it's neck if startled and/or tries to flee. If the wings are trimmed then there is the risk of injury from dropping the bird in order to not break it's neck. I think I am understanding more why this is being done - desensitization and whatnot, but I just worry about the things that could go wrong. I'm sure he explains these risks when introducing his techniques though.

 

[SandraK]

JoJo and Rudy View attachment 166200 View attachment 166201

The caption for these photos is "I'd better be getting a darn good treat for letting her do this AND take an embarrassing photo which I know she's gonna post on AA".

 

[saroj12]

The caption for these photos is "I'd better be getting a darn good treat for letting her do this AND take an embarrassing photo which I know she's gonna post on AA".

And they did!

 

[ArtBird]

And they did!

....and belly kisses!!

 

[ArtBird]

I think it is quite clear that Kili is absolutely not traumatized or upset in any way by being held in that restraint. The reason that Michael holds her that way is just to desensitize her to being grabbed in any manner. Being desensitized to it means that vet visits are less stressful, and there's a lesser likelihood of being bitten by your parrot by touching him the wrong way. Also, in the case of emergencies, it is important to be able to grab your bird quickly and safely.. But personally, I haven't ever felt the need to do that particular hold for my own birds.

I understand all of the reasons and I think it's still a risk where too many things can go wrong. Now lots of people are learning to grab their birds this way..., increasing the risks for birds, especially with inexperienced owners. Desensitization is fine, I just don't like this particular method. Kili may learn to be still but I bet he doesn't like it. I much prefer grabbing them on the back. I've never had trouble grabbing Ki even quickly. Tickles wrestling with fingers and kisses all over have done wonders and like I said it's just my opinion and my personal preference. Ki would let me do it. I just won't. I guess if it was an emergency and all I could reach was his head... Lol

 

[lamagdalena]

When you go to grab them to flip them over, your thumb goes on their chest right? Tequila still is resisting the thumb tightening on her so I can grab her safely.

 

[Wayne361]

For training purposes I held Oscar like you see in pic with Michael. Abolutely no issues. Hold..treat/reward (head scratch in our case)...repeat....he was calm as a cucumber and after several repetitions was nudging my hand to repeat...
I was going to take pictures to torment the naysayers hahahaha.....

All is good, and as long as bird isnt being hurt in any way, it is up to the individual bird owner how they want to hold their bird. There are a lot more contentious issues other than this we could get into i.e. clipping, free feeding, freeflight etc
Lets just agree to disagree

Have a great day,

Wayne

 

[lamagdalena]

For training purposes I held Oscar like you see in pic with Michael. Abolutely no issues. Hold..treat/reward (head scratch in our case)...repeat....he was calm as a cucumber and after several repetitions was nudging my hand to repeat...
I was going to take pictures to torment the naysayers hahahaha.....

All is good, and as long as bird isnt being hurt in any way, it is up to the individual bird owner how they want to hold their bird. There are a lot more contentious issues other than this we could get into i.e. clipping, free feeding, freeflight etc
Lets just agree to disagree

Have a great day,

Wayne

photos!! I am a completely visual person.

 

[lamagdalena]

Okay for all that debate about the "neck hold", here is a video Michael did on youtube that can give a
more well rounded view of what he teaches and how he teaches it.

the neck grab is somewhere in the middle. Being able to accomplish the neck grab isn't on my priority list. I would much rather be able to just grab them by their backs and flip them over, or spread their wings out. One thing Micheal has pointed out, and in my opinion it's true is that we should be able to confidently handle our fids for when the day comes we need to do something in a hurry (emergency, someone got hurt, etc..) we can.

Tequila lets me cup my hand entirely on her back, but I still can't grab her yet

 

[saroj12]

thanks Erika...I think I haven't seen this video yet and need to!

 

[Wayne361]

photos!! I am a completely visual person.

For you Erika I will post pics in the next day or so. Im technologically challenged but will attempt.

 

[sodakat]

@Wayne361 @ArtBird @gibsongrrrl ...

That seemingly dangerous neck dangling method is actually very safe when done correctly, it's used by avian veterinarians as a means to securely restrain a bird.
Here is a video of "AviStraint", a straight jacket developed by an avian vet for birds during checkups. Every bird in the video is held by the neck while being restrained.

AviStraint

"If you are not familiar with the techniques of avian restraint, please do not be alarmed. No birds were harmed during filming. Avian patients are commonly restrained using an encircling grip around the neck, below the mandible. This is a bird-safe restraint method because no pressure is being applied to the structures of the neck."

But in the avistraint video the birds are ALSO being supported by the feet. If birds could dangle by their neck without harm, how would we ever hear of a bird who hung itself in a food dish door escape, etc. and we do!

 

[cupoftea]

I can do this with Zazu. I think he looks so cute with his feet up in the air. Sometimes he relaxes and closes his eyes.

 

[Wayne361]

But in the avistraint video the birds are ALSO being supported by the feet. If birds could dangle by their neck without harm, how would we ever hear of a bird who hung itself in a food dish door escape, etc. and we do!

Its the stuggle that insues....panick, thrashing etc. None voluntary, bird is stuck...it freaks out. Different in so many ways.

Wayne

 

[lamagdalena]

Its the stuggle that insues....panick, thrashing etc. None voluntary, bird is stuck...it freaks out. Different in so many ways.

Wayne

But in the avistraint video the birds are ALSO being supported by the feet. If birds could dangle by their neck without harm, how would we ever hear of a bird who hung itself in a food dish door escape, etc. and we do!

also the hold is not "squeezing" so they can't breathe. But I do think this is the most "delicate hold" he teaches and should probable be done last when we know our birds, their personalities, their limits...

 

[Wayne361]

Erika the continued voice of reason

 

[Wayne361]

For Erika.....