TO CLIP? -- Flightless bird. Controversy. Honest feedback. Advice. Practicality.

[Shezbug]

Okay, I just remembered something I read in this post, that cat saliva can kill a bird. I have always heard the same thing! However, I spoke with my vet and a few others and they all laughed and said it was a myth. Can anyone clear this up with personal experience?

Not a myth… Pasteurella bacteria is the issue.
I’m sure a quick search on this site using the search function (top right- the little magnifying glass) will get you a fair few threads with further information.

 

[AussieBird]

Okay, I just remembered something I read in this post, that cat saliva can kill a bird. I have always heard the same thing! However, I spoke with my vet and a few others and they all laughed and said it was a myth. Can anyone clear this up with personal experience?

Very true. I have rescued several (wild) birds from cats and they always died because we couldn’t get them to a vet soon enough (even if they were left completely alone to recover from shock first)

 

[keirieski17]

People keep saying to keep the cat out of the room. I just want clarification because my brain must be missing something. Do you all keep your birds in one separate area for some time and then take them out to play in another enclosed enclosure? This is my situation and maybe understanding it will help you untrap me from my confusion. Henri has a small cage in a dark, temperature-controlled room to herself where she sleeps only. She sleeps a proper number of hours of sleep but not every night is the same. When she wakes up, I get her and bring her into the living area where she has about 4 or 5 different perch stations, all of different sizes and locations. She gets to choose where to start her day. She recently also began learning how to use the rope highways, so as of now, she has the ability to independently relocate herself to the safety-approved locations without my help. At all times, she is in the room with plants, the cat, (previously also guinea pigs, rats, dogs, etc). However she isn't encouraged on the ground, so she is really accustomed to obeying the territories that exist in her mind and that I created to exist for her. If she gets frightened, she will haphazardly fly/tumble down to the floor and make her way home. Aside from that, she essentially has zero interest in being ANYWHERE that is not designated already as hers. I try to use her fierce proclivity towards territoriality to act as invisible borders in the house. So in this situation (in this situation means this one situation, please don't tell me to get rid of my cat and plants without first trying to help me make MY situation work or I'd then have to get rid of my wife.), how would I keep the cat out of the room? That means he could only come out when Henri is sleeping (and this is where no one tells me I shouldn't have gotten a cat; it's unproductive and impractical--it's not a lion it's a ragdoll--believe me I practice a great deal of awareness and caution although I know I cannot be perfect). I do hope none of this came across in any way untoward.

Frankly, as a person with two cats and two birds, some sacrifice has to be made on both parts for the safety of all. Your cat needs a space to be where the bird cannot get and vice versa. For me, this means the birds are caged much of the day while the cats are free, and the cats go in the bedroom when the birds come out. There is never a time where the cage door is even open and the cats are in the room. The birds do stay in the living room, just caged while the cats are around. I know this is far from ideal, it would be amazing if the birds could have more time out. But since cat saliva can kill a bird even with minimal injury, and cats are apex predators with massive prey instincts, there is simply no safe way to allow both to exist without a barrier of some kind. You say she gets scared and flies and crashes sometimes-- this is prime prey behavior to your cat, like when you wave a feather toy.

Here is a source on the cat saliva issue: Birds and Cats. It's not toxic like a venom or poison, but it is full of a bacteria that can very quickly lead to infection and death in birds.

I want to be clear that I am not wanting to be judgmental. I know from experience it is a tricky balance to find as I want all of my kiddos to spend time with me and live the best lives they can. In your case, a zon is also big enough to pose a threat to your cat. The safety of all has to come first, and in this case, there is no safe way to continue doing things as you have been.

 

[erineliot]

I feel like the number one reason to clip, safety, is built on lies. Clipped birds can still escape, and even get hurt more easily. I think it's the same vibe as not allowing a toddler to walk because you're scared they'll fall. Sure, they're less likely to get hurt, but it hinders their wellbeing and they will definitely get sad.

The only reason you should clip, in my opinion, is if they're a genuine medical issue where flying would be too dangerous for them (Like if they have a neurological issue or if they're blind)

I watched my budgie go from being clipped to being fully flighted, I could never clip a bird after seeing how miserable he was and how much more confident he is now. He actually refused to bond with me at all until his wings grew back, so the thought of "clipped birds are easier to tame" is based on lies, too. Clipped birds are easier to control, not tame

1. How old was your budgie when you transitioned him? I.e., how long was he flightless? I'm excited to learn there may be a way to encourage mine to be more susceptible to training efforts than she is now!

2. I am NOT doubting a word you say, I loved them all, but you did mention something others have ss well that I'm curious about. This "clipped birds can still escape" concept, well... how? Just walk out the door? Steal my keys? I'm just being playful, but I'm genuinely curious; I want to make sure I avoid it ever happening. After her first and only escape with me, I felt an emotion I've never felt before--a heartbreak and hopelessness I've never felt before. The world visibly, viscerally darkened. So if it's possible that I can lose her clipped too, I want to make sure I ask you all now while she's still clipped, "How?".

3. If it's worthwhile for me to acknowledge, as my dear Henri's human, that my current interpretation of clipping as being associated--incorrectly--with safety, I would sincerely and with a new awareness admit that I do. 100%, actually. (With so many people keep mentioning confidence. I wonder if this could be the source of her ever-anxiety that she's been imprisoned with since I met her. I would be more than over-joyed to see Henri "come into herself" more. The words don't exist.) ...Which brings me to my next point.

4. Okay, so clipped is not safer. I concede. But, I lost her once and almost twice. This isn't a contradiction to what you are all telling me. It's my way of saying, I am T E R R I F I E D. Her remaining feathers should be in, I don't know, maybe mid-spring. So I really need to prepare now, largely mentally, if I'm going to try this again. Also, everyone had been so amazingly helpful. I'm blown away in many ways. However, if I'm being honest, which I am...

​

I still feel​

T E R R I F I E D​

...and unprepared. Haha. My mind races with questions. Too many.​

​

​

5. Thank you!

 

[erineliot]

Very true. I have rescued several (wild) birds from cats and they always died because we couldn’t get them to a vet soon enough (even if they were left completely alone to recover from shock first)

Horrifying.

 

[erineliot]

Frankly, as a person with two cats and two birds, some sacrifice has to be made on both parts for the safety of all. Your cat needs a space to be where the bird cannot get and vice versa. For me, this means the birds are caged much of the day while the cats are free, and the cats go in the bedroom when the birds come out. There is never a time where the cage door is even open and the cats are in the room. The birds do stay in the living room, just caged while the cats are around. I know this is far from ideal, it would be amazing if the birds could have more time out. But since cat saliva can kill a bird even with minimal injury, and cats are apex predators with massive prey instincts, there is simply no safe way to allow both to exist without a barrier of some kind. You say she gets scared and flies and crashes sometimes-- this is prime prey behavior to your cat, like when you wave a feather toy.

Here is a source on the cat saliva issue: Birds and Cats. It's not toxic like a venom or poison, but it is full of a bacteria that can very quickly lead to infection and death in birds.

I want to be clear that I am not wanting to be judgmental. I know from experience it is a tricky balance to find as I want all of my kiddos to spend time with me and live the best lives they can. In your case, a zon is also big enough to pose a threat to your cat. The safety of all has to come first, and in this case, there is no safe way to continue doing things as you have been.

You didn't come across as judgmental at all. I appreciated everything you shared!

 

[Britnicorn]

1. How old was your budgie when you transitioned him? I.e., how long was he flightless? I'm excited to learn there may be a way to encourage mine to be more susceptible to training efforts than she is now!

2. I am NOT doubting a word you say, I loved them all, but you did mention something others have ss well that I'm curious about. This "clipped birds can still escape" concept, well... how? Just walk out the door? Steal my keys? I'm just being playful, but I'm genuinely curious; I want to make sure I avoid it ever happening. After her first and only escape with me, I felt an emotion I've never felt before--a heartbreak and hopelessness I've never felt before. The world visibly, viscerally darkened. So if it's possible that I can lose her clipped too, I want to make sure I ask you all now while she's still clipped, "How?".

3. If it's worthwhile for me to acknowledge, as my dear Henri's human, that my current interpretation of clipping as being associated--incorrectly--with safety, I would sincerely and with a new awareness admit that I do. 100%, actually. (With so many people keep mentioning confidence. I wonder if this could be the source of her ever-anxiety that she's been imprisoned with since I met her. I would be more than over-joyed to see Henri "come into herself" more. The words don't exist.) ...Which brings me to my next point.

4. Okay, so clipped is not safer. I concede. But, I lost her once and almost twice. This isn't a contradiction to what you are all telling me. It's my way of saying, I am T E R R I F I E D. Her remaining feathers should be in, I don't know, maybe mid-spring. So I really need to prepare now, largely mentally, if I'm going to try this again. Also, everyone had been so amazingly helpful. I'm blown away in many ways. However, if I'm being honest, which I am...

​

I still feel​

T E R R I F I E D​

...and unprepared. Haha. My mind races with questions. Too many.​

​

​

5. Thank you!

I got Raiju clipped when he was around 4-6 months old, not sure how old he actually is. Within about 3 or 4 months his clipped feathers molted, and he began growing his flight feathers. I believe he learned to fly before he was clipped, because he didn't have too much trouble with it. It just took him awhile to be able to fly completely properly, as his feathers were all bit uneven due to some being clipped and some being fully grown during the molting process.
But I did watch a budgie learn how to fly, the one I raised, Phoenix. Phoenix crashed A TON when he was learning to fly. He never crashed enough to completely knock the wind out of him, but man it was scary for awhile. I just had to let him learn, within just a couple of weeks he was an expert

Clipped birds can still escape unless you completely take their entire wings away, which isn't right. A clipped bird still has flight feathers, flight is possible but much harder and not as graceful. Raiju crashed to the ground multiple times when he was clipped, and would bump into walls or even the corner of the desk (ouch ). With the right amount of motivation, fear, and/or wind, they can fly. They can glide right out the door then be taken off by wind. And since they're clipped, they won't be able to escape predators as easily... I think you can see where I'm going with that.

I get scared, too. Especially when they have big crashes, I considered clipping a few times. It seems like it'd be safer on the surface, but it's not. What's really important is to recall train, so even if they get out they will return to you. I haven't had my birds get out yet, but Phoenix has escaped the room once or twice(just as dangerous as we have cats and dogs in the house). I recalled, he came right back inside. I think recall training is a vital and very important skill to have, in all animals

 

[erineliot]

I got Raiju clipped when he was around 4-6 months old, not sure how old he actually is. Within about 3 or 4 months his clipped feathers molted, and he began growing his flight feathers. I believe he learned to fly before he was clipped, because he didn't have too much trouble with it. It just took him awhile to be able to fly completely properly, as his feathers were all bit uneven due to some being clipped and some being fully grown during the molting process.
But I did watch a budgie learn how to fly, the one I raised, Phoenix. Phoenix crashed A TON when he was learning to fly. He never crashed enough to completely knock the wind out of him, but man it was scary for awhile. I just had to let him learn, within just a couple of weeks he was an expert

Clipped birds can still escape unless you completely take their entire wings away, which isn't right. A clipped bird still has flight feathers, flight is possible but much harder and not as graceful. Raiju crashed to the ground multiple times when he was clipped, and would bump into walls or even the corner of the desk (ouch ). With the right amount of motivation, fear, and/or wind, they can fly. They can glide right out the door then be taken off by wind. And since they're clipped, they won't be able to escape predators as easily... I think you can see where I'm going with that.

I get scared, too. Especially when they have big crashes, I considered clipping a few times. It seems like it'd be safer on the surface, but it's not. What's really important is to recall train, so even if they get out they will return to you. I haven't had my birds get out yet, but Phoenix has escaped the room once or twice(just as dangerous as we have cats and dogs in the house). I recalled, he came right back inside. I think recall training is a vital and very important skill to have, in all animals

Thank you! And recall train?! I will have to look into that!

 

[Spearmint]

Okay, I just remembered something I read in this post, that cat saliva can kill a bird. I have always heard the same thing! However, I spoke with my vet and a few others and they all laughed and said it was a myth. Can anyone clear this up with personal experience?

As a cat owner, the once my cat managed to slip out the door and grab a wild pigeon. Sadly it did die, but it was already sickly and missing feathers and half its beak. We did take it to the vet but they said there wasn't much they could do after the cat bite. I believe its because their saliva harbours a lot of bacteria? I may be wrong but thats what Ive heard

 

[Spearmint]

I'm really grateful for this advice! Thank you! And it's okay. Your intent was caring for my bird, which I appreciate. Her wings are almost all grown in now. Maybe I'll start with the little hand bounces like another user mentioned to get her using her wings. Then I'll try landings on the bed and increase the distance over time. Someone on here said that their bird who was atrophied as well needed two years to train after 7 years of confinement. I only gave Henri a little over a year and she was 20-something years. Again, thank you.

Of course! And yeah, again I apologise. That's great that her wings are almost fully grown too! I saw that post and I think its a good idea too also wear gloves to minimise bites, when birds are on something they consider an 'unsteady perch' typically they bite it might even be a good idea to do this on a perch of hers.
Patience *is* key, and I'm so happy you're willing to do this for Henri.
Best of luck to you both on this journey

 

[erineliot]

As a cat owner, the once my cat managed to slip out the door and grab a wild pigeon. Sadly it did die, but it was already sickly and missing feathers and half its beak. We did take it to the vet but they said there wasn't much they could do after the cat bite. I believe its because their saliva harbours a lot of bacteria? I may be wrong but thats what Ive heard

That's what I always heard until my vet. My wife and I rescued a... little black "common" bird that I won't mention because it was illegal. Haha. But we spent two days nursing it, knowing it would likely die. Got to the point we were (barely) retraining the young bird to fly after the attack (or by a cat too, sorry). It was an experience. But then my go-to local wild bird rehabber came to rescue it. We were lucky, but we could also never inspect it well enough to see if it had any scratches or puncture wounds. All I remember is that he struggled with one of his wings. It's horrifying to witness and to happen, though. And I guess that is the takeaway.

 

[erineliot]

Of course! And yeah, again I apologise. That's great that her wings are almost fully grown too! I saw that post and I think its a good idea too also wear gloves to minimise bites, when birds are on something they consider an 'unsteady perch' typically they bite it might even be a good idea to do this on a perch of hers.
Patience *is* key, and I'm so happy you're willing to do this for Henri.
Best of luck to you both on this journey

Awe! So sweet and kind!
Yesterday morning I woke up to rescue Henri from her nigh-night cage since I could hear a commotion. I walk in to find my wife with a (very long) perch (walking stick) trying to help Henri out on their own. I was filled with such joy. I had only mentioned the idea once to my wife after being on here one night. Over only a few years, Henri has given her hell. She's attacked and attacked, once even piercing a through-and-through hole in her tongue. She's given up on Henri many times due really to just sheer heartbreak. But after doing even just some of the little things for Henri that I'm learning here is changing Henri's cheerfulness and engagement noticeably. I see I still have a long way to go. But I think we are all getting excited at home to get to the next steps.

 

[ems08]

Awe! So sweet and kind!
Yesterday morning I woke up to rescue Henri from her nigh-night cage since I could hear a commotion. I walk in to find my wife with a (very long) perch (walking stick) trying to help Henri out on their own. I was filled with such joy. I had only mentioned the idea once to my wife after being on here one night. Over only a few years, Henri has given her hell. She's attacked and attacked, once even piercing a through-and-through hole in her tongue. She's given up on Henri many times due really to just sheer heartbreak. But after doing even just some of the little things for Henri that I'm learning here is changing Henri's cheerfulness and engagement noticeably. I see I still have a long way to go. But I think we are all getting excited at home to get to the next steps.

This makes me so happy to hear! You've gotten a few really good game plans from folks-- better said than I managed for sure. I don't think I did a very good job of translating my experiences with Maddie and Riley into actual advice! In addition to the recommended "pt" exercises for wing strength and stamina (and the bed trick is brilliant!), target and recall training could be hugely helpful for everyone's happiness. When I talked about my experiences before it didn't occur to me that you wouldn't be familiar with those training tools since they're mentioned quite frequently here--my bad!

As for general training, the first thing I taught Riley was to spin by taking a safflower seed and luring him in a circle. After three sessions I no longer had to lure or even indicate with my hands, I can just say spin and he does it. Once you get one thing down she'll get the concept and you can progress to more abstract concepts-- we're working on wave but its slow going haha. "Step up" was also slow but he's just kind of clumsy with his feet. Training tricks might not seem important but if she can learn something really simple, it will earn her praise/treats and will boost her confidence. Riley is so proud if himself when he learns and can successfully do a new trick!

The most improtant safety skill I've trained is to ask him to "come here". It's so useful because if he's across the room and being a trouble maker I can ask him to come to me to stop the behavior. I always give a high value treat for coming to me on command since it's such a crucial skill and I want him to always listen to it. Heaven forbid there were ever an accident or emergency and he got loose in an unsafe space (fan left on or outdoors, etc) I want him to listen and come to me when I ask and/or point to my arm. Obviously that skill depends on being flighted, but you can do something similar with targeting within her hangout spaces (even just from one end of the perch to another), it doesn't make her a safer flier but it allows you to develop tools for communicating that will help with saftey (and behavior) in the bigger picture.

Can't wait to hear how your progress continues!

 

[Destiny]

2. I am NOT doubting a word you say, I loved them all, but you did mention something others have ss well that I'm curious about. This "clipped birds can still escape" concept, well... how? Just walk out the door? Steal my keys? I'm just being playful, but I'm genuinely curious.

Yes, it is possible for a clipped bird to escape. It depends a lot on how severely clipped the bird is and the environmental conditions, but it can and does happen. If I look around, I can probably find a number of threads by people who lost their birds, because they took them outside with clipped wings and assumed they could not take flight away, until the bird did. Or left a window or door open for the same reason. The bird gets scared and jumps into the air. A breeze gives enough lift to carry them aloft. They cannot control their flight and blow away. Birds are naturally aerodynamic. Even if their wings are clipped to normally prevent lift, under the right conditions, they can act like a kite or paper-airplane or glider. And if you wait too long between clippings, they might be able to fly better than you realize. This is especially true for perch potatoes who don't seem interested in flying, so people are more inclined to assume they can't. They might be physically capable of flight when scared, even if they are unwilling to fly under normal conditions.

Clipping the bird too lightly might mean they can still fly upward by exerting extra effort, so they are still able to get into the same trouble as a flighted bird. Clipping the bird to heavily means they cannot slow their descent safely and might hurt themself if they are startled into flight. The "perfect clip" would allow the bird to glide and land safely from a height but not allow the bird to produce enough upward lift for true flight. Unfortunately, this perfect clip is pretty unattainable.

 

[erineliot]

Yes, it is possible for a clipped bird to escape. It depends a lot on how severely clipped the bird is and the environmental conditions, but it can and does happen. If I look around, I can probably find a number of threads by people who lost their birds, because they took them outside with clipped wings and assumed they could not take flight away, until the bird did. Or left a window or door open for the same reason. The bird gets scared and jumps into the air. A breeze gives enough lift to carry them aloft. They cannot control their flight and blow away. Birds are naturally aerodynamic. Even if their wings are clipped to normally prevent lift, under the right conditions, they can act like a kite or paper-airplane or glider. And if you wait too long between clippings, they might be able to fly better than you realize. This is especially true for perch potatoes who don't seem interested in flying, so people are more inclined to assume they can't. They might be physically capable of flight when scared, even if they are unwilling to fly under normal conditions.

Clipping the bird too lightly might mean they can still fly upward by exerting extra effort, so they are still able to get into the same trouble as a flighted bird. Clipping the bird to heavily means they cannot slow their descent safely and might hurt themself if they are startled into flight. The "perfect clip" would allow the bird to glide and land safely from a height but not allow the bird to produce enough upward lift for true flight. Unfortunately, this perfect clip is pretty unattainable.

WOW! Reading all of that was visceral, because while I somewhat have seen this myself over the years, I'm still completely astounded and shocked and only a few right turns away from terrified in all my panic. I mean, I have to turn off my fan--now. Which I just did. One of the BIGGEST benefits, apart from safety, is that I personally thought clipping her wings meant it was safe to bring up outside with me, uncovered. I know I'm probably putting my foot in my mouth here, again. But it's my truth and if it needs changing, I welcome it. Whew, that really was emotional and very visual to read. Thank you.

 

[tka]

I just want to comment to commend you. It can be very difficult to have your beliefs and ideas challenged, and you are doing an admirable job of taking new ideas in and changing your behaviours. What you are doing will have a real impact on your bird's safety.

 

[erineliot]

I just want to comment to commend you. It can be very difficult to have your beliefs and ideas challenged, and you are doing an admirable job of taking new ideas in and changing your behaviors. What you are doing will have a real impact on your bird's safety.

Very much appreciated. I AM overwhelmed, and I do feel bad/sad I didn't find you all sooner. But change I'm willing to do.

You've all been so..... decent. Completely kidding! You've all, honestly, been so wonderful. I know we'll get there. I just want to see her as happy as is meant to be. Maybe it's ludicrous— which would be okay—that aside from my family, she is downright my most absolute joy. And I just want to give that back to her. (Cue the collective, "Aweeeeeee!")
But she's come a long way since I inherited her—a solid 180° at least. Still, I just can't help but wonder what she'd look like... spinning full circle.

​

It's been the dream since day one, to see her "come into herself." It's probably useful to know that she didn't actually become mine until after some 30-odd weeks of visiting her. I just fell in love! I saw straight through her. I saw that she was in pain—that was obvious, but I also saw that she was glorious! Plus she liked me, and she didn't like people, so that felt good. She quickly became the best part of my day. I wanted desperately to befriend her, maybe one day she'd consider I might be safe. Eventually, after four or five months of visiting her, we bonded entirely. But she was still the definition of caged—in her past and present, her mind and her spirit—caged. It was a lot like watching a tiger pace back and forth in their little glass habitats. And yet, ironically, she's been the one to save my life on more than one. So I love her a little.

Anyway, while I'm here...
I loosely briefed my wife on some of the highlights of what I'm learning here, just to say, you know, "change is coming." Haha. Well, she was very excited and asked many questions, ones I'm meanwhile asking myself. But since this thread is on the topic of flight, I'll ask one of the ones she had:

Rey and I learned of free-flight less than five years ago. We'd watch video after video, dreaming of what it'd be like to do it with Henri one day. Yet, in the back of MY mind, I was 100% certain this would never be our reality. To her, though, it has always been 100% probable! Haha. But regardless, it wouldn't be something I'd go poking around about now, because, obviously, Henri still doesn't know how to "controlled" fly! Haha. But her question made me want to ask you all my own question, (so I suppose I'm not going to be asking one that she had) which is,

Do any of you and your birds free-flight?! ...Outside, of course.


​

I wish I could see videos of all your babies and their habitats! Oh, the ideas and inspiration would be endless!

 

[Shezbug]

You can find many photos and videos of members birds and sometimes set ups here... https://forums.avianavenue.com/index.php?forums/feathered-photos-fairway.21/

You can see some awesome set ups from members here... Feathered Estates



Lots of work and learning for proper safe freeflight training both for bird and human, I am sure there are many birds doing it who would be safest not to and I am also sure many who could be awesome freeflight candidates are not given the opportunity. Training really is the key and finding a good qualified trainer really is so important- even the best trainers have lost birds as far as I am aware, and I am also aware of many more being lost or harmed by incorrect or incomplete training. Youtube gives people a great view of what can be but unfortunately it also leaves many thinking they have found the best trainers.
Here are two places I have heard awesome reports back from regarding the actual safety and training aspect for the birds and people involved and I believe both have been doing this for much much longer than some of the better marketed ones out there... Soaring Wings Training - and then there is Avian Training and Flight Instruction Unfortunately there has been some feedback that really is not the best from one of these places quite recently, it was not in regards to the actual bird training but how some things were spoken about/put across- apparently it was a touch offensive and also fairly inappropriate. There are more than just these two places but these two were at the top of my thought list.

 

[tka]

Unfortunately Henri is unlikely to be a good candidate for free-flight. If you want to do free-flight with a bird, it's crucial that that bird has excellent flight skills and the neurological development to support these. Flight takes advanced coordination, requires intense visual processing to make sense of everything they see, and requires fast decision-making if the bird encounters something unexpected.

Fully Flighted Birds | The Aviator Harness

At the first hint of danger a bird naturally takes to flight. During the hundreds of defensive short flights that flighted birds take each day, they are quickly assessing potential dangers and deciding if they need to keep flying. These short flights require immediate and appropriate decision-making

www.aviatorharness.com

This really has to be developed from birth. A good candidate for free flight must absolutely trust her wings. She needs to be able to make quick turns, hover, and make lightning fast decisions while in flight, and never fear that her wings may betray her.

I personally don't free fly my parrots. I'd love to, but we have raptors like sparrowhawks and buzzards which would easily take a 250g bird. My girls are smaller than a pigeon so are suitable prey for them. Most good candidates for free flight are larger birds, like macaws or cockatoos, I am thinking about smuggling them into work so I can let them fly in a lecture hall though

 

[sootling]

Okay, I just remembered something I read in this post, that cat saliva can kill a bird. I have always heard the same thing! However, I spoke with my vet and a few others and they all laughed and said it was a myth. Can anyone clear this up with personal experience?

Totally dangerous. Cat saliva contains bacteria that can infect a bird with an open wound, however all the bacteria dies when it dries up. PLEASE don't let your cats near your birds, as their claw bacteria is also super dangerous.