Thoughts on Paloma’s death

[orphansparrow]

I made a different thread when she passed but this is a bit different and wanted to hear some opinions. Since my initial shock of finding Paloma and assuming it had something to do with her heart, I’ve considered something else that may have killed her. If you don’t know, her doctor had found that she had a slow heartbeat just 3 weeks prior. Well after talking with him when she died he said because it was sudden and because she had no symptoms of heart disease, he guessed it would have been environmental. I thought about something I hadn’t considered before and that was the humidity in the bird room. The day before she died I had experimented with raising the humidity in the bird room. It was on the highest level and pretty steamy in there. I had thought it might be good for the spot on her chest that she had plucked. During the day it was about 71% with me going in and out/opening and closing the door. It’s usually just over 50%. Well what I didn’t consider was how much higher it must’ve gotten with the door closed all night. Anyway, in the middle of the night she called out to me a couple times and I ignored it and went back to sleep. I am wracked with anxiety now thinking that she might have been having trouble with the humidity and needed help. I am wondering if that, combined with a possible weak heart, may have killed her and I could have prevented it. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you for listening. I am just heartbroken and obsessing.

 

[WillowQ]

I think that high humidity might have been an additional stressor IF was already unwell. I don’t think a well bird would die from that factor, alone.
There’s no way you could have known.
i am so sorry about your loss and I hope you and Duckie can be ok.

 

[Xoetix]

I feel the same as @WillowQ - if she was already unwell, then it *miiiiiight* have been a factor... But even still, I don't really think so. There have been rainy days here where the humidity gets well up into 80% or higher, and all of my birds have been perfectly fine with it other than being obviously cranky.

 

[WillowQ]

Yes. I was trying to emphasize that I thought the humidity making it that much more difficult to breathe was a stretch, but lost it and Paloma’s name in the edits.

Years ago, my 2 small parrots were visibly depressed when I lived in an attic apartment without AC and it (newly) reached 90+F in our small city. But that’s high heat plus humidity in birds and humans who were not accustomed to it.

 

[Emma&pico]

I know how you feel I really do but I think you can go around it in your head so many times and sometimes there’s just no answer hindsight a wonderful thing when something happens but we don’t know what’s going to happen you could have done a million things differently and it may or may not have helped please don’t beat yourself up I know it’s hard but we just have to accept it and hold them in our hearts and move on from the what if’s remember them for all their good happy memories they fetch into our lives

well that’s how I see if it personal I can’t keep torturing myself pico gone and it won’t fetch him back

 

[Emma&pico]

Plus I honestly believe he wouldn’t want me to either

 

[Pixiebeak]

With a slow heartbeat beat, one of the common causes is AV block and you most certainly can have sudden death . This is covering dogs , because the avian ones seem d to all be pfd and I don't download those. One I did , talked of sudden death with AV no symptoms, other than previously the low heart rate .

Atrioventricular (AV) Block | Gulf Coast Veterinary Cardiology

Atrioventricular (AV) Block - Atrioventricular block (AV block) occurs when electrical impulses do not travel normally from their origin in the upper chambers of the heart (the atria)

gulfcoastvetcardiology.com

It's a lot more rare for a GCC to pluck , and can often be with internal health/ pain. She was in the small slight side, at looks to me in pic.
I'm disappointed in your Veterinarian to do the cop out " environmental" this is to cover their butt, or to be a comfort as it makes both parties blameless or makes it unknowable

You have a known very serious health issue, bradycardia that can cause sudden death , weather av block or other cardiac disease. It makes it unlikely their was now another variable.

 

[Xoetix]

bradycardia

I have a history of bradycardia as well, and reading this was not fun thankfully (and unfortunately) my biggest side effect from it is being constantly tired.

 

[Pixiebeak]

I have a history of bradycardia as well, and reading this was not fun thankfully (and unfortunately) my biggest side effect from it is being constantly tired.

I'm not especially knowledgeable in heart stuff, you've probably learned more from your cardiologist. Do you know the cause?

 

[Xoetix]

I'm not especially knowledgeable in heart stuff, you've probably learned more from your cardiologist. Do you know the cause?

Family history, really. But as far as we know, only my maternal grandfather had it, plus he had the crazy low blood pressure I've been battling as well.

 

[Shannan]

Just to ease your mind a little, remember that conures are tropical rainforest birds so they are designed for an environment that pretty much remains at 90% humidity. Take care of yourself and try not to beat yourself up. It is very hard when they leave us suddenly.

 

[orphansparrow]

@WillowQ @Xoetix @Emma&pico @Pixiebeak @Shannan

Thank you so much for all your replies. It helps to think that maybe the humidity was not such a huge, if any, factor, but really just being able to talk through it with people who know/care has been extremely helpful. I really appreciate it

 

[WillowQ]

I’m glad that I and others have some comfort or help.

I have been feeling quite ashamed of my tactless joke about your gassy chop mix for Duckie. I am so sorry if I seemed callous and I hope you and Duckie are ok. My gcc (in past) grieved very hard about my Lucy’s death and I hope Duckie takes cuddles from you instead of withdrawing.

 

[orphansparrow]

I’m glad that I and others have some comfort or help.

I have been feeling quite ashamed of my tactless joke about your gassy chop mix for Duckie. I am so sorry if I seemed callous and I hope you and Duckie are ok. My gcc (in past) grieved very hard about my Lucy’s death and I hope Duckie takes cuddles from you instead of withdrawing.

Oh not at all. I don't know if it is because I trained as a death midwife or if its just my personality, but I don't mind finding humor amidst pain. I've even been prone to a little gallows humor at times but I know it's not for everyone.
Duckie wants to be on me constantly, either for cuddles or for murder. He's up and down all day, emotionally.

 

[WillowQ]

Poor boy. My Oscar completely withdrew when Lucy passed. I hope you can wear Duckie to help him feel safer.

I’m glad I didn’t hurt your feelings. (I think, what an interesting job! But that’s me.)

 

[Alien J]

One I did , talked of sudden death with AV no symptoms, other than previously the low heart rate .

Atrioventricular (AV) Block | Gulf Coast Veterinary Cardiology

Atrioventricular (AV) Block - Atrioventricular block (AV block) occurs when electrical impulses do not travel normally from their origin in the upper chambers of the heart (the atria)

gulfcoastvetcardiology.com

Thanks for the link! Very interesting. Sounds a bit like what they think is happening with George.

I have a history of bradycardia as well, and reading this was not fun thankfully (and unfortunately) my biggest side effect from it is being constantly tired.

Hopefully that's the only side effect you'll ever have! They are suggesting George's heart issues (besides having A-fib, Left Bundle Branch Block, PVCs, and a biomechanical aortic valve) are to do with the electrical signals from the AV node.

(I think, what an interesting job! But that’s me.)

My first thought the second I read "death midwife" was "what an interesting job", albeit a bit depressing I'm sure.