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Terrified. AGY symptom?

SchwuggieLove

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Guys, I need some input.

My baby has seemed to be feeling better. He had had baytril in his water and probiotics a couple times, though I am concerned he possibly stopped drinking the water a couple days ago (hard to tell since I've been gone). Started singing and came out of cage a few times. Poop looking better for 4 days now. But I've been at work all day for the last two days so haven't been able to help and eye on him.

Shared album - Jessica Clarke - Google Photos

Tonight I saw some weird neck movements that have me absolutely terrified, from some stuff I've read and the video @Lady Jane posted. This is the first time I've seen it, and I have seen him do it again since I took that video earlier tonight.

Should I call the vet and have an emergency appointment?

Sorry it's a link. It wouldn't let me put the actual video because of the file type.
 

enigma731

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That looks like normal crop adjustment to me.
 

Lady Jane

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He had had baytril in his water and probiotics a couple times

Since the antibiotic you bird received is not the most effective medication for active yeast and it was given to him in drinking water which is not the best route to give the medication I would feel comfortable getting the avian vet to do another swab of the crop (gram stain) to check for yeast. There is also a test they do on the droppings. Amphotericin B is the antibiotic that treats yeast.
It is not easy to diagnose from a video.
 

Macawnutz

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Birds regurgitate often without being sick. ;)

What was your sweetie on Baytril for?

If your prescription for baytril is over you could bring your baby in for a recheck. Making sure the antibiotics did the trick will give you peace of mind.
It is possible that the antibiotics could allow a yeast infection to take hold, baytril will kill good and bad bacteria from their systems and it often leaves them vulnerable. Unlikely if you are using probiotics as well but possible. I would not be thinking it is avian gastric yeast. That's a long shot and not warranted at this point. The video appears to be normal behavior to me unless it continues or gets worse.
 

enigma731

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Ampho B is neither an antibiotic nor the treatment of choice for all yeast. It is a very powerful antifungal that treats avian gastric yeast specifically. It's not a drug that should be given lightly due to the side effects and the risk to the owner administering it. If you're concerned then more testing might be the right option, but seriously, we need to stop jumping to recommending Ampho B anytime anyone says the word yeast. It has the potential to do real harm.
 

Macawnutz

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Ampho B is neither an antibiotic nor the treatment of choice for all yeast. It is a very powerful antifungal that treats avian gastric yeast specifically. It's not a drug that should be given lightly due to the side effects and the risk to the owner administering it. If you're concerned then more testing might be the right option, but seriously, we need to stop jumping to recommending Ampho B anytime anyone says the word yeast. It has the potential to do real harm.

I completely agree with this. Amp B cured my macaw of AGY but nearly killed him in the process. It was awful awful stuff and I never want to have to administer it again. You have to protect yourself with gloves while administering it and my poor guy vomited like a volcano moments later. I truly believed the medication would kill him before the AGY. You have to do at least 30 days and it's nothing to mess around with. It's not a medication you ever recommended unless you have a positive test and need it.

Nystatin is what most yeast needs.
 

Hankmacaw

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Here is the warning from Mayo Clinic about Ampho B;

"What Is Amphotericin B?

Amphotericin B is an antifungal medication that fights infections caused by fungus.

Amphotericin B is used to treat serious, life-threatening fungal infections. It is not for use in treating a minor fungal infection such as a yeast infection of the mouth, esophagus, or vagina.

Amphotericin B may also be used for purposes not listed in this medication guide.

This medicine is for serious, life-threatening fungal infections. It is not for use in treating a minor fungal infection (yeast infection) of the mouth, esophagus, or vagina.

Do not use amphotericin B in larger amounts than recommended. An overdose can cause death.

You should not receive this medicine if you are allergic to any formulation of amphotericin B (Abelcet, AmBisome, Amphocin, Amphotec, or Fungizone)."

Amphotericin B is reserved in the bird world for AGY and very serious cases of Aspergillosis (given by nebulizer for a very short period of time), It is so toxic that it is rarely used for anything else.




 

Lady Jane

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AGY is a very serious disease in birds and can be fatal. Since my bird died from this years ago I have any budgie in my care screened. They can carry this or have an active status that can be transferred to other birds. There is nothing wrong with being concerned and having a budgie tested for yeast. As of this day I have had two budgies on Ampho B for yeast. One died and one was cured. Once you have had a budgie that died from AGY you will find yourself hyper vigilant for any symptoms.

Of course you want to have your bird under the care of a certified avian vet who knows what they are doing and properly dosing and regulating the administration of Ampho. B
 

enigma731

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But there's a difference between advocating for screening and telling people to use a dangerous medication with no justification. It's the difference between telling people to have regular physicals/preventative care and saying "oh, you have a headache? You might have a brain tumor so the best thing to do would be to go get chemo."
 

Lady Jane

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But there's a difference between advocating for screening and telling people to use a dangerous medication with no justification. It's the difference between telling people to have regular physicals/preventative care and saying "oh, you have a headache? You might have a brain tumor so the best thing to do would be to go get chemo."
I have never told anyone to use Ampho B. I am informing others of my experience and what my vet told me about Ampho B and I am not going to get into a debate with you about this. I am not one to have the last word on a subject.
 

enigma731

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You frequently tell people that Ampho B is the treatment of choice for yeast, even when it is candida yeast being discussed in the thread. I'm not trying to have a debate either, I'm trying to point out what I think is well-intentioned advice that could lead to harm of birds. I would hope everyone on this forum would do that when warranted.
 

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Not to beat a dead horse but I think clarification is needed.

AGY is serious and often misdiagnosed. My macaw was presumed PDD positive until the AGY was found after multiple crop swabs.

While common in budgies, many live their whole lives with it and never have symptoms. It most often attacks weakened immune system birds and is secondary to another infection. If using an avian vet, a fresh fecal sample will easily show it in a gram stain if it's shedding.

When a bird is presenting illness you first consider bacteria or simple yeast. It's far more common than AGY and the same steps are taken to diagnose all. Even when I think the worst illness in a bird it does no good to scare the owner with worst case scenarios as we see with this thread. :)
 

finchly

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@SchwuggieLove one thing you can do that will not harm your bird but could help with a simple yeast is to provide probiotics. Another is use apple cider vinegar in the drinking water, 15 ml to a liter, once a week.
 

SchwuggieLove

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Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. I have still not seen him do that neck action again.

And yes, I know I am a bit paranoid, but my baby girl died last year, after nearly 5 months of being sick (probably longer, because I'm counting from when she started wheezing). Two avian vets never were able to give her a diagnosis, but after more research, I highly suspect that it started with a bacterial infection, and that she died of a secondary fungal infection leading to sour crop. Since then I've done a lot of reading and research, even when he was healthy, so that I wouldn't have to rely solely on the vets. It did pay off, because when he got sick, I was able to recognize it very early.

His droppings, appetite, energy levels all have improved since starting the antibiotics. His energy is still low for him, but has increased. The improvement seemed to be overnight, and then a plateau. The tail bobbing started AFTER the rest seemed to get better, though it has decreased a bit again. Also today is the first time I noticed his nose seem congested. Every time before that, when I've been able to get a good enough look, it was clear. He's looking very shaggy, and the look of his face scares me, because that's how my Schwa looked when she died. It's hard to tell though because he also just had his big moult, and his poor lil head is covered in pin feathers.

Every time he's been out of his cage I've been sure to pay attention to his smell while getting a nose kiss. He smells good, no sourness. But I feel like by the time it would be, that's more progressed, and I wouldn't want it to get there in the first place.


Birds regurgitate often without being sick. ;)

What was your sweetie on Baytril for?

If your prescription for baytril is over you could bring your baby in for a recheck. Making sure the antibiotics did the trick will give you peace of mind.
It is possible that the antibiotics could allow a yeast infection to take hold, baytril will kill good and bad bacteria from their systems and it often leaves them vulnerable. Unlikely if you are using probiotics as well but possible. I would not be thinking it is avian gastric yeast. That's a long shot and not warranted at this point. The video appears to be normal behavior to me unless it continues or gets worse.
Mr. Wuggie is on Baytril for... acting sick. Vet did a fecal exam and found nothing, but agreed his droppings didn't look right, and based on my observations of his behavior. She said since we didn't know what it was exactly she was just going to use a more broad one and see if it helped. I requested probiotics as well, and she gave me "benebac" powder to sprinkle on his veggies. He is still on the Baytril, but I think he stopped drinking the water a few days ago. So yesterday I just gave him fresh water, and put a little Baytril on his veg instead. I think it worked.

I haven't seen him regurgitate once though since his mate died last August.

Ampho B is neither an antibiotic nor the treatment of choice for all yeast. It is a very powerful antifungal that treats avian gastric yeast specifically. It's not a drug that should be given lightly due to the side effects and the risk to the owner administering it. If you're concerned then more testing might be the right option, but seriously, we need to stop jumping to recommending Ampho B anytime anyone says the word yeast. It has the potential to do real harm.
Oh I wasn't planning on giving him medication without asking the vet. Just trying to figure out if it warrants an emergency trip. Her house is connected to her practice, so she does do late night emergency appointments if needed.

I completely agree with this. Amp B cured my macaw of AGY but nearly killed him in the process. It was awful awful stuff and I never want to have to administer it again. You have to protect yourself with gloves while administering it and my poor guy vomited like a volcano moments later.
That must have been so hard to see your birdie like that! I'm glad he made it.

Not to beat a dead horse but I think clarification is needed.

AGY is serious and often misdiagnosed. My macaw was presumed PDD positive until the AGY was found after multiple crop swabs.

While common in budgies, many live their whole lives with it and never have symptoms. It most often attacks weakened immune system birds and is secondary to another infection. If using an avian vet, a fresh fecal sample will easily show it in a gram stain if it's shedding.

When a bird is presenting illness you first consider bacteria or simple yeast. It's far more common than AGY and the same steps are taken to diagnose all. Even when I think the worst illness in a bird it does no good to scare the owner with worst case scenarios as we see with this thread. :)
Those have been the first things considered-- That's what the Baytril is for, even though she couldn't find anything... :unsure1:

I'd rather get scared "just in case" than have no idea, and lose my precious baby! I admit I'm extra paranoid though because between my sister's 3 budgies, and my own, I've never seen a budgie actually survive an illness. They're so fragile and it's heartbreaking. :( He's GOING to be the exception though! :xflove:

@SchwuggieLove one thing you can do that will not harm your bird but could help with a simple yeast is to provide probiotics. Another is use apple cider vinegar in the drinking water, 15 ml to a liter, once a week.
Because of the Baytril in his water, I haven't done the ACV yet, but I was definitely wanting to ask my vet about doing that after the Baytril is done. He does seem to be "eating" the probiotics pretty well though. I sprinkled it on his veggies and I didn't really see much left when I took it out. The first day I saw improvement was after 2 days on antibiotics, with probiotics that second day.
 
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