SS Cage Shopping! (Expandable Habitats?)

[Tser]

As I mentioned in my welcome post, my Congo African grey needs a new cage. Her current one is in no way unsafe or unusable, I am just very tired of the difficulty cleaning it (it's a SS and aluminum CustomCages.com/Cages by Design Hybrid style). The aluminum tracks are difficult to clean, and the wire mesh of the cage grill often catches poop instead of letting it fall through, and the cage is not secure without it. It's not a bad cage by any means, and it is a very safe cage (the most important thing to me) but I'm tired of it! I plan on keeping and using this cage for going outside on sunny days, replacing her current, smaller going-outside cage.

Since having SS, I really don't want to go back to powder coat. And after reading mention of lead and other scary stuff in this thread, I feel like there aren't any large bird cages in powder coat that I could even consider safe anymore. (The Freedom Cages person told me that they're not making powder coat cages anymore.) Is this overreacting?

* * * * *

Considerations:

* SS or safe powdercoat. Emphasis on safe!

* I don't care how it looks. Function is far more important to me than aesthetic.

* Ideally I want a cage that is 4' x 3' x 5'h inside dimension, minimum. The space I have available will fit a cage 4' x 4' max and the overall height of the cage needs to be under 7.5' tall.

* I prefer flat-topped cages because they have more room inside than dome tops.

* CAG, so 3/4" to 1" bar spacing. Always hard to find the large cages in the right bar spacing.

* I don't like seed guards.

* I may or may not use a grate; I prefer cages that I can use with or without the grate as I choose, rather than cages where the grid is necessary to keep the bird from escaping.

* I really love external feeders. The last two cages I've owned have had external feeders, and I'm spoiled. ChuChu is *very* good at removing feeding cups and bowls and tossing them on the floor, usually while they're full. Aside from the external feeders, she's learned to do this with every kind of dish I've tried with her. If the feeders are inside the cage, it's very important that they're secure. (I'm skeptical. Haha.)

* I would prefer at least that the feeders can be accessed without getting into the cage ("swing out" or have an access door, or whatever), for when other people take care of her. The easier this is for pet sitters and the like, the better.

* Big front door. I want to be able to climb inside for cleaning.

* Money isn't so much a limiting factor except that the higher the price the longer it will take for me to save it up, and the longer she and I will be stuck with her current cage.

* ChuChu has had four cages so far in her 20-year life. I would really like a cage that I'm not going to get fed up with, or have to replace due to damage, *again*, in five years. At the same time, some day I hope to move into a place where I can have her in a room-sized indoor aviary. This makes me think maybe I should think of the next cage as temporary, and not spend a fortune on it. But I feel like there aren't any cheap, large, safe options; the ones that are cheap (which I'd consider anything around 1000 USD or so in this situation) are powder coat manufactured in China, and I don't want to risk it.

* * * * *

Expandable Habitats questions!

I've heard nothing but great things about Expandable Habitats. So it's definitely under consideration.

* I have seen their price list on their site, but I was wondering if anyone with a highly customized cage from them could give me some feedback on how much modifications tend to add, what kind of modifications they recommend, and what I should expect in terms of shipping costs.

* I've seen several people get the plexiglass top over the cage, which I think is great; I don't have any other birds right now, but you never know. And if I hang something over the cage, it'd be nice if she wouldn't be pooping on her toys in the cage. This is less of an issue if I get a very tall cage like I'd want, as there's no room over it to hang things anyway. How easy is it to remove the plexiglass? Several of ChuChu's toys have acrylic ball hangers (such as Expandable Habitats sells), which means the plexiglass top would probably make it hard to hang them.

* I love the pull through paper design; however, is it easy to use liners *other* than the butcher paper rolls if so desired? What if you just want a double layer?

* Has anyone had to break the cage down after setting it up? How difficult a process is it?

* Do the different bar spacing options change the base cost? On the site it doesn't say what bar spacing is used in their price estimates.

* Has anyone bought the cage and then expanded it later on? That's a really cool option that they have, but I haven't known anyone who went that route. Does having the cage extensively customized cause any problems with that down the road? The cage can only be extended lengthwise, not depth, correct? And is there a limit on how many extensions are possible?

I can of course ask all these questions in more detail of the Expandable Habitats people themselves, I just don't want to bother them unless I'm pretty sure I want their cage, especially since if I go that route it'll be a bit before I can buy it.

* * * * *

As it is one of the more expensive options, I'd definitely like to hear if there are any other cages besides Expandable Habitatsout there that might fit my needs!

I realize this whole thing is very fussy and particular. My apologies!

I've actually been researching cages for several months, and it's a source of great anxiety for me. It's such a big purchase and I want it to be the right choice for ChuChu.

 

[rockybird]

I have four EH cages. I am very happy with them. I intend for these to be the final cages for my caique, green cheek conure, maroon belly conure and nanday conure.

I have not broken them down after putting them together. I find them easy to clean. I think I get each cage cleaned in 5 mins, inlcuding cleaning the grate. The grates come out in two pieces, making it easy to remove to clean, but I have my own system. I spray the grates while in the cage with poop off, use lysol wipes and a plastic knife to clean them. I still remove the grates sometimes but not as often with this technique. I love the paper roll system. It just looks to nice and neat. Sometimes I put newspaper on top of the paper. I might do this if I have company coming over and I want the cage to look super clean. I remove the newspaper revealing the clean kraft paper before they arrive.

I added a large door to the back to make it easier to reach and hang toys. I didnt add much more to the design. Three cages are 4’x2.5 and one is 3.5 x 2.5 feet/ I got the plexiglass top for a couple of my cages, but I dont use it, so I didnt get it for the others.

There is something about how these cages are constructed that make them very roomy and airy appearing.

 

[Clueless]

Thanks for the thread.

I'll be watching, too.

 

[KimKim]

I also have and EH cage, she is great to work with. I also got the 48x30 size and I did not get anything custom as it made me think to much lol, so not sure if costs extra. I have had to use newspaper a couple times when I ran out of the butcher paper and I hated every day of it, until my new butcher paper arrived. I suppose you could use the butcher paper and then add a sheet on top if you wanted to double up. But the butcher paper is pretty heavy duty. I have also taken down my cage a couple times, it does require 2 people but it isnt that hard to do. Just reverse the directions on how the cage went up. The 2 side panels come off first, then the top, and then the front and back panels.
Here is a pic of my cage, its not a current pic but the cage is the same I like the look of the raised top rather than the flat top. Dont forget to get a shelf made for the cage too if you go with EH!

 

[rockybird]

@KimKim your cage set up looks great.

I have to agree that the company was great to work with! I stopped using the panels on the sides. It just looks cleaner without them. But it does mean that food falls out those areas onto the floor.

The worst thing I can think of about these cages was the wait. I was so excited after I ordered them. I couldnt be happier with them. Also, one person CAN put them together. You have to be clever, but you can do it. I assembled them all myself, but I would rather have had a helper.

 

[jmfleish]

We just got our third EH cage and I did a little bit of customizing. The first two were bought second hand so this was the first one I got directly from EH. Usually, they come with a feeder door on each side and I like to be able to put water and food on one side and be able to choose either side because we have a lot of birds and we tend to move cages around a lot. Other than that, I also ordered a divider made out of acrylic because this cage was for my two male Galahs who can be a little out of control sometimes and I wanted to be able to shoo them from one side of the cage to the other and put something between me and them for easier cleaning and hanging of cages. It was also the standard 48"x48"x30". I had to get the standard flat top and know that the domed top which gives you about 1.5" to 2" more was a bit more. The front door is huge which is great for cleaning but kind of a pain for putting up perches that go side to side. I also ordered a 30" SS shelf. I would have gotten a 48" one as well but, because of the divider, that wouldn't have worked out well.

I learned about these cages from my Ekkie breeder who bought them to house her breeding Palm Cockatoos and Major Mitchells in and I've seen her set ups which were two 5'x4' expansions for each pair and they are absolutely amazing. She was selling two of them recently but they were at the bigger bar spacing so they wouldn't work for me otherwise I would have grabbed them in a second!

We will probably be ordering another one soon for two of our Amazons. I know they are at about a three month waiting period right now and ask for a 1/4 down when you put your order in. I aim to have one of these cages for every bird I have...we are just getting started! LOL!

 

[Tser]

Thank you all so much! I think I am fairly convinced this is what I want. I'll start sending inquires to them for an estimate and to find out more. I'm guessing this could cost somewhere between 4000 and 6000 for the size cage I want, which means it could take quite a long time to save up for me.

Do any of you use it without the grate? I know the person who runs the CoCo's flock blog got their budgie cage without one, but I don't know if they are on this forum or their username. Is it escape-proof if you take the grate out? Did you guys get the drop-in or slide in grates, and if it's the drop-in could a grey lift it?

Is the pan in the bottom plastic? What does it look like? Would it hold up to an African grey beak if the parrot got to it?

Where do you guys get your Kraft paper rolls and how much do they cost? I found this at Office Depot which looks like it'd last a bit less than 10 months with once a day cleaning in a 48x48" cage, if I'm doing my math right (which I may not be haha). I don't know if there are cheaper options.

@rockybird They really do look wonderful and open. Thank you so much for telling me about your experiences. I've always hated grates because of how hard they are to clean, but my experiences have been with powder coat and a SS 1x1 grid, rather than the longer SS bars. If it truly could be easy to clean then a grid would be so useful, so that ChuChu doesn't drop her foot toys in her poop all the time.

@KimKim I do like the look of the raised top better, I'm not sure how much I'd save getting the flat, so I will ask about that. I guess it does add an extra ~inch of height as well, and the more space the better, as far as I'm concerned!

@jmfleish Thank you for the perspective of someone with a medium sized parrot, as well! The 48x48 is the size I'd like to get, but I think the 48 x 36 (size of her former cages) would fit better in my space. If I get it with legs, the cage will have to be shorter (they don't offer the 5.9 panels with legs, it seems) but the kraft paper would have to be to the side, making it wider.

 

[jmfleish]

Thank you all so much! I think I am fairly convinced this is what I want. I'll start sending inquires to them for an estimate and to find out more. I'm guessing this could cost somewhere between 4000 and 6000 for the size cage I want, which means it could take quite a long time to save up for me.

Do any of you use it without the grate? I know the person who runs the CoCo's flock blog got their budgie cage without one, but I don't know if they are on this forum or their username. Is it escape-proof if you take the grate out? Did you guys get the drop-in or slide in grates, and if it's the drop-in could a grey lift it?

Is the pan in the bottom plastic? What does it look like? Would it hold up to an African grey beak if the parrot got to it?

Where do you guys get your Kraft paper rolls and how much do they cost? I found this at Office Depot which looks like it'd last a bit less than 10 months with once a day cleaning in a 48x48" cage, if I'm doing my math right (which I may not be haha). I don't know if there are cheaper options.

@rockybird They really do look wonderful and open. Thank you so much for telling me about your experiences. I've always hated grates because of how hard they are to clean, but my experiences have been with powder coat and a SS 1x1 grid, rather than the longer SS bars. If it truly could be easy to clean then a grid would be so useful, so that ChuChu doesn't drop her foot toys in her poop all the time.

@KimKim I do like the look of the raised top better, I'm not sure how much I'd save getting the flat, so I will ask about that. I guess it does add an extra ~inch of height as well, and the more space the better, as far as I'm concerned!

@jmfleish Thank you for the perspective of someone with a medium sized parrot, as well! The 48x48 is the size I'd like to get, but I think the 48 x 36 (size of her former cages) would fit better in my space. If I get it with legs, the cage will have to be shorter (they don't offer the 5.9 panels with legs, it seems) but the kraft paper would have to be to the side, making it wider.

We are close to a U-Line, so we order online for pickup and drive to get the kraft paper. I have smaller cages that we use the kraft paper too. I spend the extra money and get the freezer paper that is coated on the one size and it makes for a very easy clean up. It's a bit more expensive but well worth it I think. I have the drop in grates because Tricia (one of the owners of EH) said that the slide out ones give you more to clean with the slides. I don't think they could design the cage without a grate due to how they use the paper to pull through. There is a fairly large gap between the grate and the bottom of the cage and the base is slightly bigger than the cage itself but you could ask. The pan is a type of plastic-like piece...it's hard to describe. It's not rigid but it definitely keeps its shape. I love it because it's not nearly as heavy as a metal pan and is easy to take in and out, it slides in and out very easily. I've thought about asking if they might create pans for some of my bigger, heavier cages that have the horrible metal pans. I think if given the opportunity, a grey who likes to chew might be able to put a dent or two in them but not easily and they aren't reachable from the standard cage setup. I've taken our cages apart and put them back together a few times now and it's not hard but is easier to do with two people...not impossible with one, but better with two. They usually label all the panels for you so you know where everything goes. It's a fairly simple process. Another thing about these cages is that they are literally guaranteed by the company for life. Once you buy one, assuming you like the set up, you shouldn't ever have to buy another one again. The first one we purchased was originally made in 1996 I want to say. We got it second hand off of Craigslist in 2012 or so and it still looks brand new. We have two greys in the other two EH cages we have. They are fairly big male CAGs and were stripping the powder coating off their other cages, so we had to go to SS for them. Clancy, my largest CAG at nearly 600 grams, is in the bigger spaced one (1 5/8" I think) and we are just about on the too big size for him there but he's a very careful boy and we've never had a problem with it. Definitely go with the smaller spacing!

Oh, I forgot to mention the domed top...we have the domed top on our first cage but the flat top on our second cage. The domed top drives me a little crazy because when you put toys on the outer edge of the cage, they slide down. I was originally going to go with a dome top for our third cage and have them put an extra bar on each side to stop that from happening and they said they could definitely do that but then pointed out that the division panel wouldn't work so great with a domed top, so we went back to flat!

 

[Danita]

4000 to 6000?

 

[webchirp]

If I had the cash...

Expandable Habitats - Monthly Special

A used cage with 1/2" bar spacing...Custom 4' x 6' x 6'4" tall cage, 1/2"

 

[jmfleish]

If I had the cash...

Expandable Habitats - Monthly Special

A used cage with 1/2" bar spacing...Custom 4' x 6' x 6'4" tall cage, 1/2"

View attachment 283749

FIND THE MONEY! That's an awesome deal!

 

[KimKim]

The person from Coco’s flock is, or use to be on this forum, I cannot think of their user name at the moment
I get my paper rolls from amazon. The last time I got it, it was around $46, the company I have ordered from the past few times is called Boardwalk. I have gotten the brown kraft papa pet and the white butcher paper and I prefer the white butcher paper.

 

[KimKim]

Here are a couple pics of the gray plastic pan. It’s open/flat on both sides where the paper runs through and has an edge on the front and back.

 

[rockybird]

Wow that used cage is really tempting for my parakeets. Do you guys have any thoughts on the horizontal spacing?

 

[webchirp]

Wow that used cage is really tempting for my parakeets. Do you guys have any thoughts on the horizontal spacing?

Horizontal spacing is wonderful...easier for them to climb around in my opinion.

 

[Mizzely]

@lotus15 is the user behind Coco's Flock

 

[jmfleish]

Don't forget that they don't make the 1/2" spacing anymore so that used one is a real steal!

 

[Tser]

Another question I have is does anyone own or know anyone who owns a Bennet IMPS anodized aluminum cage?

I remember seeing these forever ago and being impressed by the design, and it seems like the website hasn't been much updated in the last decade, and I've never once come across someone who owns one. (I love their Liberator and would love one for a catio haha.)

You guys are so helpful, this is an amazing forum. Thank you so much.

@jmfleish Is this the paper you mean? Poly Coated Kraft in Stock - ULINE I actually use coated paper for ChuChu currently, so much easier with the veggies and veggie-poop, so that would definitely be a plus. Unfortunately there's no ULine near me, but I have bought from them before and shipping is reasonable. Thanks for the note on the drop in versus sliding grates... the whole reason I'm upgrading is looking for an easier to clean cage! and the tracks on her current cage certainly can be annoying to clean.

@webchirp I actually did email the person selling with a few questions yesterday or day before when I saw it on the site, I'll let everyone know what they say.

@KimKim Thank you so much for the pictures, the design makes much more sense to me now. The only complaint I have about Expandable Habitats so far is how tiny the pictures are on their website. Haha.

 

[jmfleish]

Bennet is too far out of my price range but their cages look awesome!

I use the freezer paper: Freezer Paper, Freezer Paper Sheets in Stock - ULINE
We even invested in the paper holder/cutters and I love them!