Some finch care questions

[Momof3litt]

My new babies have been home for a few days now and they seem to be adjusting nicely. However, I have some questions about things I was told by the breeder and wondering if I could get some input from the finch folks on here. I suspect some of this advice is what she learned from older/traditional finch breeders and maybe there are newer ways of doing things that I can adopt.

1. You must trim their nails and beaks regularly.

I have made an effort to have stone and natural wood perches/chewable items in my other bird cages and it has been very effective at keeping nails/beaks trimmed naturally. I was assuming this would work similarly for finches? Any specific recommendations in this area? I do have a vertical perch in one of the cages already.

2. They must have a branch of millet in their cage at all times.

Um, I don't think so?? I only use it as a treat for my other birds....??

3. She recommended feeding a custom seed mix, veggies (very specific - cucumbers and pea shoots, rapini and/or spring mix greens), mealworms and an extensive variety of supplements, but no pellets.

All the vet info I've seen says to feed pellets, and I've started converting them onto the same Harrisons that my other birds eat, along with their seed mix and veggies. Any other feeding recommendations for finches?

4. All the supplements - calcium, iodine, probiotics, apple cider vinegar, charcoal, cuttlebone grated over food. There's something every day, it's quite complicated.

If they are eating pellets, I assume this is mostly unnecessary?? I might have one female, so additional calcium around egg-laying seems reasonable, but do I need to give it to the males as well?? I know cuttlebone is not a good calcium source...

5. Preventative air sac mite treatment every 3 months. They will eventually be in the same room as my existing birds. Is this something I need to worry about for everyone??

6. Any dish recommendations for tiny finches? The ones I'm using now are not large and have the attached perch, but they are jumping into the dish to eat anyway.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Blueszz]

I'll give it a try and hope for many to chime in.
I'm just thinking out loud...

My new babies

Star finches and owl finches, am I right?

1. You must trim their nails and beaks regularly.

I don't think so but it's something to keep an eye on. Honestly, I never had to trim the beak from a healthy bird. Nail trimming, yes but in my experience that isn't needed very often. I can't recall the last time a trimmed the nails of a bird.

I have made an effort to have stone and natural wood perches/chewable items in my other bird cages and it has been very effective at keeping nails/beaks trimmed naturally. I was assuming this would work similarly for finches? Any specific recommendations in this area? I do have a vertical perch in one of the cages already.

I think this is what should do. I can't think of a reason this doesn't work for the species you got. Adjust the diameter of the perches for these tiny feet

2. They must have a branch of millet in their cage at all times.

At all times?
All species of finches have their own requirements. While generally said not to feed a lot of millet sprays the advise for Green Singers sometimes is to feed different kinds of millet very often. Or maybe I should say that the advise is to feed a lot of millet, instead of saying to feed it often. That's a slight difference.
Not everyone agrees but info on this species is very limited, and people seem to copy info from each other.

I don't know the specific food requirements for your birds. When you do some research about what they eat in their natural habitat, you might get the answer on this question tailored to the species you own.

I rarely feed my canaries millet while I give my Green Singer a piece of a millet spray once a week. If I would offer more often, he only would eat millet.

cucumbers

I would feed cucumber only as an occasional treat, sparingly. It's mainly water. There are so many veggies to choose from, I feed them the veggies I eat that day with a few exceptions like avocado. Especially because I don't yet feed pellets I think variety is key.

mealworms

If 'in situ' they eat insects besides seeds yes, mealworms could be on he menu. Green singers have them on the menu too, I still don't have luck with feeding insects. But I feed a kind of egg food which has insects in it and that is what my Green Singer accepts as animal based protein.

If they are eating pellets, I assume this is mostly unnecessary??

Not sure. What kind of pellet are you feeding? Harrissons but which one?
I don't yet feed pellets to my Green Singer, because I think a pellet doesn't cover his specific food requirements. I'm still looking for a pellet that comes close but I feel I have to combine it with seed mix and more animal based proteins than some pellets cover.
I can't imagine that for instance a pellet that matches the needs for canaries and for green singers can be the same one as their needs differ.

Struggling with the food question. Would love to hear what others have to say.

Besides a tropical seed mix I feed seeds from weed, also for variety.

Preventative air sac mite treatment every 3 months

I never did that. I don't know where they contract air sac mites, but also never had a health issue with air sac mites.
As far as I know air sac mites is not an air born disease which lets me think that as long as your birds are not close to other (new) birds and don't share perches, bowls etc. they are just fine.

But I have to say something on "preventative treatment".
If there are no mites, there is nothing to treat. And if you treat them for air sac mites, it won't remain effective for 3 months. So, I think a preventative treatment doesn't exist. One can treat for air sac mites also when the birds don't have air sac mites and maybe that is what the breeders tried to say. "Treat them, just in case."

Often this treatment is with ivermectin and that is very harsh on the body. I wouldn't treat them against mites if they don't have any.

Any dish recommendations for tiny finches? The ones I'm using now are not large and have the attached perch, but they are jumping into the dish to eat anyway.

Nope, no recommendations. Here the birds also jump in the dish to eat and somehow they don't poop in them. So I let them be in their way to big food dishes ;-) I make sure to give them clean dishes each morning.



Just my 2 cents on these subjects. I would love others chiming in an sharing their thoughts.

 

[Pixiebeak]

My understanding is that the mites are endemic in many populations of finches. And certain conditions can allows them to gain a foot hold in the bird.

This is an article I liked, read before because good information on avian respiratory system.

Why all the fuss about Air-sac Mites - Laraine McGinnis | Laraine's Lady Gouldians

A guide to air sac mites in Lady Gouldian finches, where they come from, when and how they procreate, and treatment options to eradicate them.

ladygouldian.com

 

[Blueszz]

My understanding is that the mites are endemic in many populations of finches. And certain conditions can allows them to gain a foot hold in the bird.

This is an article I liked, read before because good information on avian respiratory system.

Why all the fuss about Air-sac Mites - Laraine McGinnis | Laraine's Lady Gouldians

A guide to air sac mites in Lady Gouldian finches, where they come from, when and how they procreate, and treatment options to eradicate them.

ladygouldian.com

Thank you for sharing this article, very interesting! I wasn’t aware air sac mites are so wide spread among populations. Also, I didn’t know it isn’t possible to kill all of the air sac mites.
This explains why the breeder from the finches from @Momof3litt advised to treat the finches every three months.
How to find out your finches are infested with these mites? I assume a vet should be able to diagnose air sac mites. The stress it causes might be well worth the effort if that means the bird doesn’t have to be treated with products that are harsh on the system. Thinking out loud.

 

[Lady Jane]

Author was a member here

Finches – Tanya Logan

tanyalogan.com

 

[Pixiebeak]

Thank you for sharing this article, very interesting! I wasn’t aware air sac mites are so wide spread among populations. Also, I didn’t know it isn’t possible to kill all of the air sac mites.
This explains why the breeder from the finches from @Momof3litt advised to treat the finches every three months.
How to find out your finches are infested with these mites? I assume a vet should be able to diagnose air sac mites. The stress it causes might be well worth the effort if that means the bird doesn’t have to be treated with products that are harsh on the system. Thinking out loud.

I'm not sure, that article or another one read said its difficult to diagnose in a live bird.
I'm not sure all finches have? But little burds are often bred in large aviary. Im not knowledgeable enough on this topic.

My avian vet( many) years ago told me not to keep finches, canaries, budgies and love birds with parrots.. tho now I do have 2 budgies..

 

[Blueszz]

I'm not sure, that article or another one read said its difficult to diagnose in a live bird.
I'm not sure all finches have? But little burds are often bred in large aviary. Im not knowledgeable enough on this topic.

My avian vet( many) years ago told me not to keep finches, canaries, budgies and love birds with parrots.. tho now I do have 2 budgies..

I have a friend that keeps 2 African Grey Parrots + several cockatiels. I know they are all tested for diseases like PBFD and several other diseases.
I'll aks her about air sac mites and keeping waxbills with hookbills and if there is a relationship with air sac mites (Edit: done). Maybe the vet only meant to say that behavioral wise they don't match well?

 

[fashionfobie]

My new babies have been home for a few days now and they seem to be adjusting nicely. However, I have some questions about things I was told by the breeder and wondering if I could get some input from the finch folks on here. I suspect some of this advice is what she learned from older/traditional finch breeders and maybe there are newer ways of doing things that I can adopt.

1. You must trim their nails and beaks regularly.

I have made an effort to have stone and natural wood perches/chewable items in my other bird cages and it has been very effective at keeping nails/beaks trimmed naturally. I was assuming this would work similarly for finches? Any specific recommendations in this area? I do have a vertical perch in one of the cages already.

2. They must have a branch of millet in their cage at all times.

Um, I don't think so?? I only use it as a treat for my other birds....??

3. She recommended feeding a custom seed mix, veggies (very specific - cucumbers and pea shoots, rapini and/or spring mix greens), mealworms and an extensive variety of supplements, but no pellets.

All the vet info I've seen says to feed pellets, and I've started converting them onto the same Harrisons that my other birds eat, along with their seed mix and veggies. Any other feeding recommendations for finches?

4. All the supplements - calcium, iodine, probiotics, apple cider vinegar, charcoal, cuttlebone grated over food. There's something every day, it's quite complicated.

If they are eating pellets, I assume this is mostly unnecessary?? I might have one female, so additional calcium around egg-laying seems reasonable, but do I need to give it to the males as well?? I know cuttlebone is not a good calcium source...

5. Preventative air sac mite treatment every 3 months. They will eventually be in the same room as my existing birds. Is this something I need to worry about for everyone??

6. Any dish recommendations for tiny finches? The ones I'm using now are not large and have the attached perch, but they are jumping into the dish to eat anyway.

Thanks in advance!

I would agree that some of the info the breeder gave you is dated.

My thoughts on your questions.

1. Natural branches are the only requirement. Emulate how trees grow, some branches are at steep angles and some are vertical. If the birds land and hop on various branches they will naturally wear their nails. Nail trimming would only be needed in a barren cage. Beak trimmings are only needed if there is a health issue.

2. Millet is a treat. Zebra finches, at least, are obligated seed eaters. Red millet is generally a good option, they will love it! It is also a good enrichment because they can naturally forage. You can also get safe finch grasses from your local area and provide fresh green seeds. Be careful where you source them, no pesticides etc. Some popular veggies for my finches are pea shoots and cucumber... They go bonkers for it.

3. You can offer some pellets but with the diverse foods mentioned, you wouldn't need pellets. The finches will eat what they need. I would offer insects irregularly.

4. You can provide water soluble grit to cover all of those. There is no reason to over complicate it. I leave water soluble shell grit in a dish and it is always available.

5. It is a good idea to treat for mites. For indoor birds probably every 6months. You will likely need to treat your whole flock as a precaution. I do.

6. I use a silo style feeder with several ports. You want at least 1 feeding port per bird. The silo allows the shells to fall away and they continue to have access to food. Finches need seed available 100% of their day. They can starve and die quickly without food. I used to use open dishes but they would eat it all and I needed to refill midday. And that isn't ideal when sometimes things pop up in life. With the Silo feeder they have a week's worth of food. And each day I change the fresh veggies and such but don't need to worry about them being hungry.


I hope this helps. Congratulations on your new family members. My finches are very special in my home and heart, they are wonderful. Don't underestimate their intelligence. They like swings, colourful toys and lots of natural branches with leaves on... Fun to destroy!

 

[Pixiebeak]

I have a friend that keeps 2 African Grey Parrots + several cockatiels. I know they are all tested for diseases like PBFD and several other diseases.
I'll aks her about air sac mites and keeping waxbills with hookbills and if there is a relationship with air sac mites (Edit: done). Maybe the vet only meant to say that behavioral wise they don't match well?

The vet mentioned mites, and diseases. Mentioned budgies can be carriers of PBFD, without feather loss or only loosing tail feathers. AGD( ?) The mega bacteria/yeast. It was a very long time ago(15 yesrs~) but it really stuck with me. I've looked that up once and did find some PBFD info that matched on budgies.

I asked my current vet before taking the budgies in. She did caution about keeping budgies with other parrot species. Said she had clients who did, without issues. But if asked she advised against. This is just one veterinarians opinion. Your veterinarian my have a different opinion. I'm just sharing. I did take the budgies. But after reading more over the years, I won't be adding more budgies.

Budgies people, please don't hate. I love my budgies! Adorable cute clowns.