Video Outsmarted by my own parrot: Rainey goes back

[Laurie]

So I told you that each one of my birds has it's own way of going back to it's cage.

Well, Rainey sometimes needs a little coaxing. I show her the treats, I hold them in such away that she has to do something I want to reach them and so forth. I thought I was pretty smart but I guess I never had to do it one handed before.

Take a look and see how she gets the better of me and the treats

 

[Dartman]

Man that's cute, she really is a smart one We have the same issue with Lurch but he gets pissy and aggressive when he knows we're trying to work him into his house. That treat trick worked a few times then he wised up and gives me the same look she did. Anymore we just wait him out as he eventually gets tuckered out and goes in. If not he stays out and gets bothered when we turn on the lights and goes in to hide and sleep.
If we think he needs to go in we use a pillow and herd him kicking and screaming in. He has learned when the pillow comes out he wont win so he fights a bit for show and heads in.

 

[bicmeister]

rainey's learned your lure into cage trick. he's on to you.
btw, what size is that flight cage? it looks huge!

 

[jeansie1988]

Too sneaky! lol

 

[Laurie]

Man that's cute, she really is a smart one We have the same issue with Lurch but he gets pissy and aggressive when he knows we're trying to work him into his house. That treat trick worked a few times then he wised up and gives me the same look she did. Anymore we just wait him out as he eventually gets tuckered out and goes in. If not he stays out and gets bothered when we turn on the lights and goes in to hide and sleep.
If we think he needs to go in we use a pillow and herd him kicking and screaming in. He has learned when the pillow comes out he wont win so he fights a bit for show and heads in.

Thank you! I think she is cute too.

She actually is better about going back then the video shows. It was trying to show more how you might start working with a bird but the video was funny so I shared it

What you are saying about Lurch is very interesting and I think that many people have the same issues you do. I had them before as well. Chasing birds, trying to outsmart them and becoming frustrated.

What I try to do with my birds now is not to trick them or coerce or force them or try to outsmart them. The goal is for them to learn to go back voluntarily. They always have a choice to stay out but the always choose to go back with in minutes, usually seconds.

If you watch the video of Quacky here, you will see that he is a completely willing participant. I ask "do you wanna go back" so he knows what we are doing, I didn't show him the treats, he stops eating, turns around, climbs on my finger, allows me to carry him straight to his cage and then steps off my hand onto his perch, turns around for his treat and doesn't rush the door when I go to close it. And the thing is he does it this way every time.

With six fully flighted caiques who come out on a daily basis this is really the only way it can work (and we all keep our sanity).

We all come out winners. So much better than towels and pillows and so much more fun!

I started with trying to trick them with the treat and close the door quickly but they got wise real quick. The solution was actually to require more of them and at the same time they had to become a more willing participant. By letting them be in control they are more happy and eager to cooperate. New rule was when the feet hit the perch they get the treat. Two of them will step off my hand onto the perch for me and the other four climb in to their cage on their own.

When they are all out I stand by the cages and call "treats" and they come flying over and start jumping into cages. I just have to make sure they jump into the right cage. Often there will be on straggler.

My favorite way to get the straggler is to give another treat to the birds who went in to the cages and pretty soon the straggler comes along and wants their treat too.

 

[Laurie]

rainey's learned your lure into cage trick. he's on to you.
btw, what size is that flight cage? it looks huge!

She is just putting on a show for you all They do get wise to the trick pretty quick so you have to escalate the training to require them to go in on their own with targeting or make them come farther for the treat.

The cage is a double flight cage HQ and A&E both make them. They are 64" x 22" X 30". I keep two bird to a cage.
I wish they were heavier wire and wider bar spacing but on a budget they are great starter cages or for smaller birds a great permanent cage.

 

[Dartman]

Well we only have Lurch so we can't use the look at what the other kids are doing and getting. When Nerd was alive if I wanted him to go in I just got him on my hand and he liked and trusted me enough he would allow me to put him on his perch, sometimes he'd grab the door or something but he'd never threaten me or try to bite and eventually he'd go in.
Lurch knows when it's bed time, he just doesn't want to be made to go in. He does go in on his own sometimes but unless he's really comfy if he sees us coming he rushes for the door.
He's just not to the trust and allow level Nerd was after all those years together.
When he finally got comfortable with us he'd go to bed around 8pm on his own, but now he's used to our later schedule and I think doesn't want to miss anything, plus he likes being out to do as he pleases.

 

[Laurie]

Maybe you could give him his favorite treat every time he goes in to his cage regardless of what it took to get him there and that might provide a little more motivation and get him to associate returning to his cage with a favorite treat instead of meaning the end of all the fun

I also like to spend a few seconds talking to them after I close the door so that they get a little transition time. I vary what I do so they don't get too stuck on one thing. Sometimes I spend more time, sometimes I give and extra treat or just talk to them. Occasionally, I just say bye and leave.

Just make it a pleasant as possible and you'll get there.

I also like to practice having them go back. They go in and get a treat, come right back out, go in again and get a treat back and forth. Then it is a game and they learn going back doesn't always mean fun time is over. It could mean lots and lots of treats and interaction. I also sometimes just put them back and leave the door open and walk away leaving them free to come back out.

 

[Dartman]

He wanted on my shoulder real bad so it was late and I held him on my shoulder and headed for the cage. Usually if I just walk over he flies off and gets on top.
This time I gently held him and bent down so he was right at the door and he went in. He looked a bit confused about how that could have happened and was calm. So I got a treat and by then he was mad that he was in and just grabbed and threw it down. I was telling him he was a good boy and all that but he was pretty put out and kept throwing his treats. Funny thing is if I'm careful he'll let me scratch his head through the bars while still complaining. Baby steps, its been 5 years to get to this point.

 

[Laurie]

@Dartman sounds like you need better treats

What's his favorite?

Also you might teach him a bridge. Are you familiar with clicker training? In clicker training it the clicker is a bridge something that is not a reward in itself just a signal that a the bird did something right and a treat is on the way. I simply say "good" as a bridge.

If Lurch had a bridge that he was familiar with then you could have made him understand that the going in the cage was something you liked and he could wait for the treat. It helps them associate the proper action with the reward when you don't have a treat handy.

You can teach him pretty easy. Is there anything he does for you that he can do on cye or when asked? Does he step up when you present your hand or ask him? If he does you could get him someof his favorite treats and ask him to step up? As soon as he does say the bridge and as quick as you can follow with the treat? Every bridge must be followed by a treat for him to learn. Pretty soon you will see if you bridge and he will be expecting a treat. Timing is key. You must give the bridge as close to the behavior as possible. With step up I'd bridge when his second foot touches down on your hand. Say good then give the treat.

Once he learns you can that the bridge means treats are coming you can use it to signal a desirable behavior has been done and run get the treat and he will make the connection. It is really helpful.

 

[Dartman]

Well he loves nutri Berries and walnuts but not when its bed time. He doesn't step up on demand, in fact at first any time I offered my hand or arm he'd get frustrated and bite it. Recently its dawned on him a hand or arm offered is good for a ride where he wants to go. I've tried to let him do what he wants and let him choose what he does and doesn't do and he's slowly bonded and become friendly and happy here but he still has things that go by his rules or set him off.
I know he was owned by a very old man he loved, then he got dementia and had to go into a home and his wife it appears was scared of him and shut him away in a room and probably smacked at him when he got aggressive with her.
He was scared to death and mad at the world when he got here and would just bite with no warning I could tell so overall I'm happy about where we're at now but still working on little things.
I think as far as things he'll do when asked about the only thing is flying to me when I try to leave the room, and flying to me if I say come on or pat my arm. He WANTS to be with and on me but sometimes gets frustrated and nips or bites my neck if something he wants isn't happening.

 

[Laurie]

Well he loves nutri Berries and walnuts but not when its bed time. He doesn't step up on demand, in fact at first any time I offered my hand or arm he'd get frustrated and bite it. Recently its dawned on him a hand or arm offered is good for a ride where he wants to go. I've tried to let him do what he wants and let him choose what he does and doesn't do and he's slowly bonded and become friendly and happy here but he still has things that go by his rules or set him off.
I know he was owned by a very old man he loved, then he got dementia and had to go into a home and his wife it appears was scared of him and shut him away in a room and probably smacked at him when he got aggressive with her.
He was scared to death and mad at the world when he got here and would just bite with no warning I could tell so overall I'm happy about where we're at now but still working on little things.
I think as far as things he'll do when asked about the only thing is flying to me when I try to leave the room, and flying to me if I say come on or pat my arm. He WANTS to be with and on me but sometimes gets frustrated and nips or bites my neck if something he wants isn't happening.

Terry is sounds like you have come a long way in building trust and that Lurch likes to be with you. One of the great things about training is that in the process you and the bird both get what you want. He gets treats and gets to spend time interacting with you and you get a buddy that loves you and is fun to be with.

Training can be a very effective means of communication.

It sounds like you let him do what he wants and offer him choices when you can and that is probably one reason you have developed a measure of trust with him and why he gets along with you. So if you can think of some useful behaviors to work with him on then you can actually offer him more choices, ideally you can present him with choices that are both acceptable to you as well.

If you are interested in working on a little training just let me know and I can give you some more specific advice.

Do you think he has a fear of hand or just doesn't really know that he should stand there? My birds really do not step up on cue either because they are flighted and will fly to me when I hold my hand up but the are also not afraid of hands. I am thinking of working on step up with them so that they are easier to remove from my shoulder.

It's been real interesting chatting with you, Terry

 

[Dartman]

Yep, been fun but your thread got kinda off track. Yes it would be nice to get him more receptive to going in or doing things with out a battle. Last night we tried a few treats he hasnt had in a while, apple and cheese, and he would go in and get a bite while carefully watching that I didn't lock him in. I kept saying good boy and he'd come out and threaten gently and go back in so finally went to bed and figured it was a good positive night.
I THINK somebody threatened him with a stick and hit at him when he was agressive as he used to flinch when a hand was above him, and he really seems to hate sticks. So yes he seemed to have problems with hands or arms and when ever something happens he doesn't like he shrieks and pops you, though he's learning it gets him shooed away or ignored so he makes the noise but bites your collar or uses a open or closed beak rather then clamp down. He's happily preening and scratching on my knee right now.
I spose you could pm me or start a new thread for this but that's the latest so far.

 

[Laurie]

Yep, been fun but your thread got kinda off track. Yes it would be nice to get him more receptive to going in or doing things with out a battle. Last night we tried a few treats he hasnt had in a while, apple and cheese, and he would go in and get a bite while carefully watching that I didn't lock him in. I kept saying good boy and he'd come out and threaten gently and go back in so finally went to bed and figured it was a good positive night.
I THINK somebody threatened him with a stick and hit at him when he was agressive as he used to flinch when a hand was above him, and he really seems to hate sticks. So yes he seemed to have problems with hands or arms and when ever something happens he doesn't like he shrieks and pops you, though he's learning it gets him shooed away or ignored so he makes the noise but bites your collar or uses a open or closed beak rather then clamp down. He's happily preening and scratching on my knee right now.
I spose you could pm me or start a new thread for this but that's the latest so far.

That is awesome Terry! It sounds like a very positive night.

I started a new thread Lurch's Training Thread. We can all move over there to continue the conversation

 

[Princessbella]

That is too cute. Unfortunately, Bella doesn't like anything so bribing her with treats doesn't work. What the Princess does at bedtime? When I tell her that it is nite nite, she runs to the top of her playstand, which is taller than me so she knows I can't get to her. Then when I get her, she refuses to step onto her sleeping perch and looks at me pathetically, then finally she crawls onto her perch. This happens every night except when she is tired.

 

[Laurie]

That is too cute. Unfortunately, Bella doesn't like anything so bribing her with treats doesn't work. What the Princess does at bedtime? When I tell her that it is nite nite, she runs to the top of her playstand, which is taller than me so she knows I can't get to her. Then when I get her, she refuses to step onto her sleeping perch and looks at me pathetically, then finally she crawls onto her perch. This happens every night except when she is tired.

Sounds like you have a routine

Have you tried spray millet as a treat? Tiny bits of nuts or apples, cheese, pine nuts. Sometimes head scratches, toys or praise will work but often a favorite treat is the best motivator. When you find something she loves then you should reserve it for only training to keep it's value high.

I forgot, is Bella a cockatiel?