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Obesity, and stress at the veterinarians office

Kara31191

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Hey guys!

This is a really serious post. I'm an incredibly bird-loving veterinary technician, veterinary student, and overly-emotional person, at times.

I am owned by my Scarlet Macaw, Rex, as well as my parent's congo african grey, and my sisters greenwing macaw. I'm in college. I've been working in the veterinary field for over 8 years.

I've always been told death from the stress of an exam can happen. It can happen to any experienced veterinarian, and everyone in the field has a story about a tragic death. The bird may not be acutely ill, and it may pass away. It stresses the importance of a yearly (or biyearly for seniors) physical exam, and lab work. It also means the bird had an underlying illness, or in the case of small birds, was not used to being handled and could be stressed out enough to have a heart attack just from the physical exam.

In all of the hospitals, I've worked in, a tech has had a story. One of my great friends, excellent with birds, was working with an excellent veterinarian who basically said that she was trimming a 60 y/o wild caught greenwing, when it just died in front of the owner. What did I do? I comforted her, and told her the bird had an underlying issues that would be diagnosed on necropsy, though we're all sad for the loss of this dear bird.

That was maybe, uh, 6 years ago.

3 years ago, I watched a tech torture herself for days, crying hysterically after she lost a bird that was also not ACUTELY ill during a general physical exam and beak trim. I told her the same thing. You can't beat yourself up over it, it happens, the bird was already sick.

Well, 2 days ago, this wonderful new-client couple came in with a timneh african grey, and a conure. They were awesome bird owners- You could just tell. The grey was rolling around in the woman's lap. They were cuddling. We elected to do his PE, trim, and beak trim first. He'd been doing well, except grey's are prone to artherosclerosis, and he was massively overweight... 500 grams. MASSIVELY. We warned the owner. The other problem- The previous vet had been doing NO EXAMS, NO BLOODWORK, and NO MENTION that this bird was the equivalent of a 400 lb human being... We cautioned the owner about the bird's weight before the exam. The exam was uneventful... Talked about upping pellets and green veggies, and decreasing fruit/nuts. The owner didn't know these would cause her bird to be overweight.

At the end of the exam, I was just about to put the bird down, and he died. Just like that. He died in my arms. I was sobbing as we tried to resuscitate him. Man, that is my worst nightmare. I couldn't even imagine being those people. I was SOBBING. I was absolutely hysterical. We went in, told the owner her bird had passed away and we were unable to do anything about it. Necropsy so far has revealed obesity, an enlarged heart, and a massive liver. 14 y/o African Grey.

So, I haven't been able to get out of bed for 2 days. I tried to take an exam yesterday at school, but I was balling all day. It was less than 24 hours later. I told my professor it was my bird that had died. Heck, it certainly felt like it. The owner, I know was absolutely beside herself, said some awful things to me about what a horrible person I am. I don't blame her- Grief is sadness. Grief is anger. It's ok. It's emotional, but I don't think she realizes we don't just walk out and shrug our shoulders.

I went to therapy yesterday over it. I've trimmed probably 3000 birds by now. A lot of them. Nothing like that. I know it had something underlying, and it wasn't my fault, but I can't get over it.

So now the only thing I can do is educate people about my experience:

Guys, artherosclerosis is REAL. Please don't feed a lot of nuts and seeds. Feed a high quality pellet and lots of high quality greens.
To lessen the exam stress, bring your bird in to visit the vet. Learn Barbara Heidenreich's restraint free exam techniques. Teach them to get used to being toweled and handled. File their nails. Be sure you're doing yearly physicals, and bloodwork as the finances allow.

This bird had been seeing a vet for trimming, but had never had a physical exam in 10 years. 10 YEARS!
 

Bokkapooh

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How terribly sad! How horrible for the owner and you :(

I want to add more, but currently at work. Will add more later*
 

jmfleish

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A 500 gram Timneh African grey? Wow...that's severely overweight. My heart goes out to you and the bird's owners but that bird was just prime for heart related death. I have a nearly 12 year old TAG and he's nearly on the chunky side at 370 grams and being bigger for a Timmy and being fully flighted. It's a very sad story but I don't think there's anything you could have done differently. I'm definitely going to go home and give Tuchis TAG a big hug and kiss... :heart:
 

Verivus

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I'm sorry you had to go through that, but honestly a yearly exam will do nothing to condition a bird to relax at a vet's office. It's a good way to catch some potential issues early on such as obesity, but people should be regularly weighing their birds in the first place anyway. It's a better use of your time to condition your bird to toweling and being handled at home/different environments/people if possible. I too worked in the vet field for a few years, though not with birds, and it's amazing just how much well-meaning people don't know how to properly care for their dogs and cats, much less their avian friends.
 

Kara31191

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I'm sorry you had to go through that, but honestly a yearly exam will do nothing to condition a bird to relax at a vet's office. It's a good way to catch some potential issues early on such as obesity, but people should be regularly weighing their birds in the first place anyway. It's a better use of your time to condition your bird to toweling and being handled at home/different environments/people if possible. I too worked in the vet field for a few years, though not with birds, and it's amazing just how much well-meaning people don't know how to properly care for their dogs and cats, much less their avian friends.
Exactly my point! They didn't even know their bird was overweight because it hadn't actually been having exams with a veterinarian... Just trims! It's so sad. I'm just beside myself... I feel so badly for the owners, but of course, I'm the last one they'll ever want to see again, probably!
 

Kara31191

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How terribly sad! How horrible for the owner and you :(

I want to add more, but currently at work. Will add more later*
Mercedez, nice to hear from you again. I used to talk to you at length about your scarlet and Bookah! Hope he's well :) :hug8:
 

Bokkapooh

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Ive missed you Kara. :hug8:

Gra my scarlet and Bokka have passed on. :(

Hows the vet tech/vet school life?

what Ive learned while in a similar field as yourself, sometimes animals dont make it, even if theyre HEALTHY. Even if someone has gentle compassionate capable knowledgeable hands working with an animal, sometimes they pass on. And thats life. But its very very hard for everyome involved.

Sometimes you have to know when to just not do something to an animal, such as restraining. But other times you have to take the risk.

Such is life. Sadly. And its hard on everyone when a beloved family member passes on. :darkcloud: :sad7:
 

Birdbabe

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I'm so sorry honey, but it happens :hug8: I've never worked in a vets office, but I do remember when my friend/fellow vet tech and I had to euithinize a serverly injured hawk at the wildlife rescue, we were a bawling mess. We have him the injection and wrapped him in a towel, she held him to the end. I cried for hours. ,,,its shows we care. Cry all you want, you have to have a certain kind of heart to work with such fragile creatures, and its OK to mourn, it wasn't your fault.
 

Hankmacaw

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Yes, atherosclerosis is real - I have two birds that have had it. Neither was ever overweight and being overweight is not the only cause of atherosclerosis. My female Jasper was fed a terrible diet (even worse than just seeds) and developed Congestive Heart Disease before the age of 6 years old, when I got her. Hank my male, who died in 2012, developed atherosclerosis during the last 1 1/2 year of his life due to Respiratory and heart problems.

It took between 1 1/2 and two years for both of these birds to develop the disease and we know that because they were at the Dr.s every six months (at a minimum) and had an xray every year. What an owner should do is keep their bird a little on the lean side, make sure they exercise regularly (flying is the best exercise) And don't feed high cholesterol foods. One of the very best things you can do for your bird's cardiovascular health is to make sure they get plenty of Red Palm Oil (RPO).

When your bird does go to the vet's, be sure you ask the vet if he can determine if there are any early signs of Cardiovascular or Respiratory disease.

http://www.tandfonline.com
Summary
Atherosclerosis is a common disease in parrots. The disease is found in all common parrot species, but especially in African Grey parrots and Amazons. It is a disease of older birds that is seen in both males and females. The most common sign is sudden death, but clinical symptoms that can be found include dyspnea, lethargy and nervous signs, such as paresis and collapses. Because the clinical signs are seldomly seen, it is difficult to diagnose atherosclerosis and therefore it is mostly an unexpected finding at necropsy. Age and species are determinants of atherosclerosis in parrots. Suggested risk factors include an elevated plasma cholesterol level, diet composition, social stress and inactivity, but research is needed to confirm this.
 
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Kara31191

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Yes, atherosclerosis is real - I have two birds that have had it. Neither was ever overweight and being overweight is not the only cause of atherosclerosis. My female Jasper was fed a terrible diet (even worse than just seeds) and developed Congestive Heart Disease before the age of 6 years old, when I got her. Hank my male, who died in 2012, developed atherosclerosis during the last 1 1/2 year of his life due to Respiratory and heart problems.

It took between 1 1/2 and two years for both of these birds to develop the disease and we know that because they were at the Dr.s every six months (at a minimum) and had an xray every year. What an owner should do is keep their bird a little on the lean side, make sure they exercise regularly (flying is the best exercise) And don't feed high cholesterol foods. One of the very best things you can do for your bird's cardiovascular health is to make sure they get plenty of Red Palm Oil (RPO).

When your bird does go to the vet's, be sure you ask the vet if he can determine if there are any early signs of Cardiovascular or Respiratory disease.

http://www.tandfonline.com
Summary
Atherosclerosis is a common disease in parrots. The disease is found in all common parrot species, but especially in African Grey parrots and Amazons. It is a disease of older birds that is seen in both males and females. The most common sign is sudden death, but clinical symptoms that can be found include dyspnea, lethargy and nervous signs, such as paresis and collapses. Because the clinical signs are seldomly seen, it is difficult to diagnose atherosclerosis and therefore it is mostly an unexpected finding at necropsy. Age and species are determinants of atherosclerosis in parrots. Suggested risk factors include an elevated plasma cholesterol level, diet composition, social stress and inactivity, but research is needed to confirm this.
Hi Mary Lynn,

Nice to talk to you again! I was on the perch and used to talk to you often. It's true that they don't have to be obese to have artherosclerosis. Heck- Some tiny people develop type 2 diabetes, and some 90 lb humans have fat tissue surrounding their organs, which is more dangerous than visceral fat.

Thanks for your support! I'm so sorry for your loss! It's so terrible... Soon, pellets will be the mainstream, just like a bag of dog food.

Mercedez, I am SO SORRY for your loss... Here if you need to talk, or message me for my email. It is so hard to lose them, and I hope I don't have to for a very long time with my scarlet!

Unfortunately, I was diagnosed with a liposarcoma (Cancer of the fat tissue) and had to leave veterinary school and come home to the USA to be treated. I was on a caribbean island for about 14 months at veterinary school. I'm finishing my bachelors and reapplying to school...

:/ It's so sad. I saw the male owner today, and he apologized for his wife (It's ok- She was grieving... I'd be a mess as well)
 

Kara31191

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Ive missed you Kara. :hug8:

Gra my scarlet and Bokka have passed on. :(

Hows the vet tech/vet school life?

what Ive learned while in a similar field as yourself, sometimes animals dont make it, even if theyre HEALTHY. Even if someone has gentle compassionate capable knowledgeable hands working with an animal, sometimes they pass on. And thats life. But its very very hard for everyome involved.

Sometimes you have to know when to just not do something to an animal, such as restraining. But other times you have to take the risk.

Such is life. Sadly. And its hard on everyone when a beloved family member passes on. :darkcloud: :sad7:
<3 It's just so sad!!!!
 

Yoyo'sMom

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Oh I'm so sorry you had to experience this! I'm an Rvt and it happened to me too. We did a blood draw on a young conure. Perfect draw and it passed away because it had conure bleeding syndrome. It was very devastating for us and the owner. I agree 100% with what your laying down.
 

Kara31191

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Oh I'm so sorry you had to experience this! I'm an Rvt and it happened to me too. We did a blood draw on a young conure. Perfect draw and it passed away because it had conure bleeding syndrome. It was very devastating for us and the owner. I agree 100% with what your laying down.
Sorry it happened to you too! <3
 

Clueless

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Oh my gracious. I'm so sorry. Being an owner I just never thought about this from a tech's point of view.

I'll keep up with the yearly exams. They've gone through two vets now and they weren't that scared the last time....it was more ticked off.

Thank you.
 

Danita

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Oh Kara, I am so sorry you had to experience that :(
I would totally be the same as you, I get it.

People need to make sure their birds are accustomed to towelling. It is a pretty scary site seeing a highly stressed, just towelled bird :( My rescue grey's eyes bled the first time. :(
 

snowbird

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I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know how you feel. I am a nurse, I had a young mother of two children who went to have a routine D&C done, before she had surgery, she said something very strange. She said she didn't want to die. Of course she wasn't going to die, she was young , healthy, and going for a very routine procedure. It turned out she had an underlying congenital cardiac condition undiagnosed, and she died after the procedure. The procedure completed, she was ready to come out to the recovery room, where I was going to be her nurse, when her heart stopped, they couldn't rescucitate her. I know this is off topic, as she's not a bird, but a life is a life. It doesn't matter dog, bird, or human, It's sad. I truly believe things happen for reason, it's not always obviously, but there really is a reason.
 

Maxsmom

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Thank you for taking the time to post and educate. Perhaps you should write an article as this can't be stressed enough.

Appropriate nutrition and regular annual edams with testing.

And hugs and healing being sent to you.... :hug8:
 

Milo

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I've been on both ends of that story as well. I haven't been in the field as long (3 years), but I do know how it feels to have your heart handed to you by a patient. Advocating for these guys is all we can do and help that these stories encourage people to find a vet and do yearly exams and not just assume their kiddos are okay.

Time helps, but I'm guessing this little one will stay with you forever. I'm here if you need to talk :hug8:
 
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