need help getting non tame bird back in cage

[runningoutofroom]

so i adopted a 20 yr amazon female who i got to train to go into her cage on command. but in the last few days she has been refusing. which is leading to my dilemma... i don't want her to have to be in her cage all the time, but without her being able to step up or let me touch her. she has been freaking out and semi flying over to another bird cage and then hyper ventilate. i have no idea what changed her behavior. i don't want to cause her trauma!
any suggestions would be great!

 

[suncoast]

You need to perch train her. That is getting her to step on a perch, preferably one that doesn't look too much like a stick, and then using that to transfer her into her cage.

When she steps up on the perch, lots of praise and her favorite treat, the same when she steps off into her cage.

Ginger

 

[runningoutofroom]

she is terror-stricken anytime i try to get anything like a perch near her. i have praised her greatly when she touches a perch. but she will only touch it with her beak.... if it is near her feet she freaks out

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

do you know her favorite treat? put that in her bowl in the cage when you want her in it works everytime for my birds

 

[Billie Faye]

have you found any treats she just LOVES?????
Or a peanut....give her one and then place the other one INSIDE the cage in her food bowl....
Wait for her to go down and into the cage to get it and then shut the door....PRAISE her and then give her another treat....
I have the same issues with a couple of birds I have who HATE people and this is the only way to get them back in....works for me now all the time...

 

[runningoutofroom]

do you know her favorite treat? put that in her bowl in the cage when you want her in it works everytime for my birds

sunflowers seeds are her fav. and it did work before. i am just confused why "out of the blue" it no longer works

 

[Bokkapooh]

Have you moved her caged around, added other birds, lacked in handling her for a while, changed diet, gotten her new toys, moved her toys and perches around, moved a sofa or another bird cage or other thing around, any life changing things happening, new hair color, new shirt, new pants, etc?

 

[Kimba]

I raised/rehabbed a phobic BFA female once. She would stress to the point of hyperventilating and almost passing out at the thought of stepping up. YOU NEED TO BE CAREFULL!!!! Phobic behavior, which is what you are describing, is an abnormal fearful/feral reaction that comes on suddenly and if not handled properly will be permanent. This is very different from a change of environment scaring a bird or anything like that, it is an over the top reaction taken place. SOOOO....

NO food outside of the cage, if she gets hungry she will go in to get food.

Stop using your hands for stepping up and remove any jewelery, nail polish.....

Start using your for arms to have her step up, and make sure your hand with it's "scary fingerings" is in a fist.

AVOID DIRECT EYE CONTACT when you are working with her!!!!!

If she runs from your arm (while on top of the cage) back off and just lay your arm on top of the cage and talk to her. When she is comfortable, put your other arm on top of the cage as well, so you form a kind of circle with your arms around her.

continue to talk and praise

Move one or both arms by sliding them (don't raise them off the cage) towards her. Don't make her feel trapped though, so back off as needed.

See if you can touch her this way, but make no move to have her step up. Work on touching toes and such, what ever she will allow.

Once she is comfortable try sliding your arm in front of her feet, but say nothing about it. If she starts to panic, back off and talk to her. If she shows no reaction praise her!

go slow, these steps might take a week or more each. it will depend on her!

Your goal is to have her trust you, and you trust her and to have her step up on your arm, IF she does step up on your arm DO NOT MOVE. don't try to put her in or anything. Just praise her. After a while see if you can slide your arm with her on it to you. If you can and she is fine than do so.

work on all of this first thing in the morning before she has eaten! Even take away the food at night so she will want to go in by her self to eat after your session. After a while she should step up on your arm, and you will slide your arm with her on it towards your chest, once you have accomplished this stand there and talk to her. Your next step will be taken a step or two away from the cage with her, again keep this up till you can walk away from the cage with her on your arm facing your chest. It will take time, just be patient and go at her pace.

Phobic birds are hard. The BFA I helped will never step up again and had to be trained with voice commands, but by doing the above, I could snuggle, hug, pet and play with her like you would a puppy. But stepping up almost killed her a couple of times (seriously). She almost had a couple of heart attacks from it. I do not think your bird is as bad. This BFA was fine, it was one of the birds that I had raised from 3 weeks old. She went to the vet and was never the same. Something happened there. She came back being phobic and missing feathers on her head. Her vet trip destroyed her, but with work she is now living a happy life with voice commands with a person who always takes in disabled birds. I hope this helps!

 

[JLcribber]

How long have you had her? Have you ever experienced hormones with her before? That could be a cause for such a sudden change in behavior as well as the things already mentioned like "scary hands" which is quite common. I would also offer my arm with a closed down hand. Instead of "reaching" towards her extend your arm a little but move towards her with your body keeping your arm close. Let her come to you by "choice". Offer the treat in the other hand as enticement.

 

[Chicklette]

I think you need to just start standing by her cage very still, no fast movements. To train my birds to go home I pick a favorite treat, usually a good one is raisins, even fruits or veggies sometimes and I make it so they see me put it in their cage. I pick a command word, “go home” and work with them that way. All of this does not happen suddenly and you need to work slowly with birds and don’t expect too much to fast. Little by little you will get there. You have a ton of great suggestions so far so hopefully that will help you.

I also just hold my hand in the cage with a treat very still a few times a day. It will eventually work.

 

[MommyBird]

Sometimes my OWA will not step up if she is on her friends' cage. Mostly I get her in her cage by putting her favorite treat there. I can also use a stuffed toy she hates and wants to kill.
But, since she is terrified of sticks - I use an old bottom grate from a small cage. I can just keep pushing it toward her and she is not afraid because it is a "cage" and will always step up onto it.

 

[Lara Joseph]

When does she like to go in the cage? What is she doing in the cage when she seems content and happy?

If you continue trying to get her in the cage and she continues flying away from the opened cage door, the behavior of her flying away is being reinforced and will likely continue to get stronger. If there is something in the cage, in the environment, or associated with the behavior of you putting her in the cage and you continue to do so, her fear will become overgeneralized. This meaning she will start placing fear on or in related objects in the behavior of you putting her in the cage, which may be what you are seeing in her heavy breathing. If she is afraid of something in the environment with this whole behavior process, these fears are going to grow and start being related to once neutral objects in the environment. Even more important, these fear behaviors of hers will soon start being associated to you. This will cause your wanting to get her into the cage increasingly harder.

You know where I would start with something like this? I would work on training her to go into the cage at times when you don't need her to. Show her that she has the control in the situation. Often times when we take the control away from the bird is when you see an increase in fear and aggressive responses. When she heads for her cage and goes in, reward her greatly and then show her that the door is there and opened or open it when she wants to come out. Do this in your training sessions with her. This will show her she has control over the situation and all of these positives are associated with you! These steps can be very very small and very very rewarding for her.

I am working with a couple of birds right now with extreme fear responses in one way or another. One is working with a bird with an extreme fear response of people period. The others are working with 3 birds with histories experiencing lack of control by being toweled for nail trims. I'm getting all of these on video and will be working on it more today. If I get good shots, I can come back and post them here. It's really neat to watch the small steps taken by us and by you too, the trainers, in association with highly valued reinforcers or rewards that the bird identifies. And remember, the bird is always the one that identifies the reward and the value on that reward, such as the sunflower seed you mentioned.

 

[runningoutofroom]

THANK YOU ALL. so much. i have been waiting for her to go into the cage on her own. and then praising her and then giving her some sunflower seeds as these are her favorite. i have been scratching her head through the bars while she is in and she loves this... i have hope and will take it slow. once again thank you all for your help!
frankie

 

[Sharpie]

I'm glad you guys are beginning to learn to work together and build some trust.

 

[Chicklette]

That is great. Do what works for you and things will go well.

 

[cmoore]

It sounds like your Amazon has learned that going into the cage to get the treat means the end of fun out-of-cage time.

I'd recommend practicing her "go into your cage" behavior at least a few times during each play session, so that going into her cage doesn't always mean having the door closed.

The "put a treat in the cage" method works well, but it's even more effective to teach her to go back into her cage on cue and then give her a treat. Have you tried clicker training her? Building up the kind of trusting relationship that clicker training establishes can be really helpful with fearful birds. Check out the Yahoo Group Bird-Click for instructions and ideas: Bird-Click : Bird-Click