Looking for Macaw Breeder

[cjy9375]

Hello,

I’m looking for a BTM (Blue Throated Macaw) breeder in Michigan. The only place I’ve been able to find that has them is The Green Parrot Superstore in Goodrich, MI. I’m on the list there but they want to clip the wings or they won’t let it out of the cage, which I’m sure is a liability issue but I really don’t want my bird's wings clipped. So I’m trying to find a breeder in hopes that maybe they will work with me and not clip the wings. I’ve contacted High Birdie Aviary which is the only breeder that responded to my inquiries and she said that the only place that she knew of was the Green Parrot Superstore. So if anyone can point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it.

Breeder Criteria:

1. Located in Michigan (they can’t sell BTM across state lines without a permit.)

2. Sells weaned birds (unforced)

3. Is a good responsible breeder (not a bird mill) who sells well-socialized babies

I would appreciate any help or advice you can give me.

Thanks!

 

[JLcribber]

You've already brought home an adult bird who I'm sure will be eternally grateful (eventually). I would personally implore you to continue along that path if you're thinking of getting more birds.

Do it for the birds. Don't contribute to an already huge and growing problem.

 

[issajoy]

The clipped feathers will grow back - it may be easier for you to start with a baby who has their wings clipped and then not maintain it. It definitely makes the early training easier and they will have new flight feathers within a year.

 

[Garet]

Have you tried looking at rescues and shelters? They're often less expensive than purchasing a bird at a store, and shelter birds are often handled and generally more well-cared for than store birds.

 

[JLcribber]

The clipped feathers will grow back - it may be easier for you to start with a baby who has their wings clipped and then not maintain it. It definitely makes the early training easier and they will have new flight feathers within a year.

Easier for who? Certainly not the bird. Dead wrong my friend.

Thinking on the Wing | The Parrot University, llc

 

[Garet]

I gotta agree, and say that it doesn't make it easier on the person, either. It can traumatize the bird to have his wings cut, and if they don't feel secure enough in their ability to fly to get away from you, that only leaves birds with one option; biting.

 

[issajoy]

@JLcribber and @Garet, I know clipping is very controversial here, so agree to disagree.

My macaw was clipped when we first got her at 6 months, and it has made establishing boundaries easier with her as well as learning step up. She is able to partially fly (just not get height up onto places, but she can glide downwards off her cage or fly a few feet parallel to the floor).

My main point was that the feathers will grow back and the bird will be able to fly again after some time, having a baby with clipped wings isn't so bad if they're really interested in a specific breed as a chick. Probably easier than trying to find another breeder.

 

[Garet]

After I've seen the effects it had on my birds, we'll definitely have to agree to disagree.

Mimikyu was clipped at a young age, and she was constantly too afraid to even try flying. We did our best to teach her, but she wouldn't go any further than a few feet. She still has difficulties with getting her landings right.

Ciri kept flying into everything, she couldn't even avoid the ceiling when she flew.

Triss is a sweet bird, and she came to me clipped as well. She really wants to fly, but she just can't get further than a few feet, either. She has to watch the other birds flyand be essentially grounded until her feathers grow back. I can see that it's frustrating for her to try and fly high with Geralt, only to have to make an emergency landing to avoid hurting herself.

 

[JLcribber]

@JLcribber and @Garet, I know clipping is very controversial here, so agree to disagree.

My macaw was clipped when we first got her at 6 months, and it has made establishing boundaries easier with her as well as learning step up. She is able to partially fly (just not get height up onto places, but she can glide downwards off her cage or fly a few feet parallel to the floor).

My main point was that the feathers will grow back and the bird will be able to fly again after some time, having a baby with clipped wings isn't so bad if they're really interested in a specific breed as a chick. Probably easier than trying to find another breeder.

You obviously never even looked at the article I posted for you. Thank you for dismissing that.

We learn something new everyday. Sometimes what we learned yesterday was wrong.

 

[SandraK]

@JLcribber and @Garet, I know clipping is very controversial here, so agree to disagree.

My macaw was clipped when we first got her at 6 months, and it has made establishing boundaries easier with her as well as learning step up. She is able to partially fly (just not get height up onto places, but she can glide downwards off her cage or fly a few feet parallel to the floor).

My main point was that the feathers will grow back and the bird will be able to fly again after some time, having a baby with clipped wings isn't so bad if they're really interested in a specific breed as a chick. Probably easier than trying to find another breeder.

Could your baby fly properly before she was clipped? The main comment I see on AA about young birds being clipped before they have learned how to fly properly or are confident in their abilities is that some appear to be "afraid " of flying when their flights grow in. Possibly because of the memory of falling and injuring themselves on the floor when they thought they could try to soar.

How old is your macaw now? You state and I quote "She is able to partially fly (just not get height up onto places, but she can glide downwards off her cage or fly a few feet parallel to the floor)". The sadness in your statement is that she is not flying confidently like most fids would since I am assuming (always dangerous) that she is older than 6 months now.

Don't misunderstand me, I have clipped some of my fids wings (show clip) but I have never clipped a babies wings before they knew how to fly and flew with their parents and my flock inside. That was how they learned about windows and perches.

 

[issajoy]

@JLcribber I looked at your article. Every bird and situation is different, I don't think that someone should pass up on a bird they truly want to love and care for just because it has already been clipped. I know there are benefits to having flight for the baby stage, but the feathers will grow back and, in my case, has made it easier to train.

@SandraK I don't think she could fly properly before she was clipped - she was clipped when we got her and didn't seem to have much time out of her cage at all before we brought her home.

Ollie isn't afraid of trying to fly - she will fly down from the top of her cage to my feet when I am across the room, or onto the couch if I'm sitting there. She is 10 months now, her landings aren't so great, she is slightly nervous before taking off but is getting better with it. I should have clarified, she can only fly down or horizontally because she is still growing in her new primaries. So she's kind of in-between clipped and flighted right now.

We are letting all her primaries grow in before taking her to get her wings trimmed again. For safety reasons where we live, she cannot be fully flighted.

 

[Garet]

If you think it's safer for you and your bird, there's really not much I can say. For me, personally, I think it's safer to have a bird be able to fly away than have a clipped bird. The only birds I've owned that have ever flown into things have been my birds that came to me clipped. Mims was clipped at a young age, I don't know how young or old Ciri was when she was clipped, and Triss is still young (around two). She seems to be confident enough to attempt to fly and obviously really wants to fly, but just can't manage it now, unlike Mims, who was just never interested in flying until I got her friends. Poor doll was absolutely terrified of going any further than three feet or so.

 

[issajoy]

If you think it's safer for you and your bird, there's really not much I can say. For me, personally, I think it's safer to have a bird be able to fly away than have a clipped bird. The only birds I've owned that have ever flown into things have been my birds that came to me clipped. Mims was clipped at a young age, I don't know how young or old Ciri was when she was clipped, and Triss is still young (around two). She seems to be confident enough to attempt to fly and obviously really wants to fly, but just can't manage it now, unlike Mims, who was just never interested in flying until I got her friends. Poor doll was absolutely terrified of going any further than three feet or so.

It's not that I'm afraid of her flying into things - my apartment set up is a bit wonky, with a lot of high up nooks and spaces where I would not be able to get her down from if I needed to. If there was an emergency where I needed to grab Ollie and leave, I would be terrified of her being scared, flying somewhere I can't get her, and having something horrible happen. We also live in a city where if I want to take her outside (she is harness training), I would feel much safer knowing she cannot fly away to the top of some building where I cannot get her. Once I own a house with more room for her, we will let her be fully flighted.

I'm glad your babies are learning how to fly - they're all small birds, correct? I think that a factor in whether to clip or not to clip is definitely size of the bird and the relative space available. In the same size room, cockatiels have a lot more space to fly than a macaw would.

 

[SandraK]

@JLcribber I looked at your article. Every bird and situation is different, I don't think that someone should pass up on a bird they truly want to love and care for just because it has already been clipped. I know there are benefits to having flight for the baby stage, but the feathers will grow back and, in my case, has made it easier to train.

@SandraK I don't think she could fly properly before she was clipped - she was clipped when we got her and didn't seem to have much time out of her cage at all before we brought her home.

Ollie isn't afraid of trying to fly - she will fly down from the top of her cage to my feet when I am across the room, or onto the couch if I'm sitting there. She is 10 months now, her landings aren't so great, she is slightly nervous before taking off but is getting better with it. I should have clarified, she can only fly down or horizontally because she is still growing in her new primaries. So she's kind of in-between clipped and flighted right now.

We are letting all her primaries grow in before taking her to get her wings trimmed again. For safety reasons where we live, she cannot be fully flighted.

You frustrate me because your bird still can't fly properly but you will still have wings trimmed again. You state that it is for safety reasons where you live and now I am curious. Why? What are the safety reasons? I don't mean to attack but if your fid is inside he/she should be flighted and perfectly safe. Flight is their ONLY escape system. Keep that in mind.

And please, please don't tell me that you're going to take him/her outside clipped without a harness and think she will be safe and won't fly away. Fallacy at it's best. Been there, done that as a beginner bird owner with a Quaker and never again.

Let me add to that fallacy section - a clipped bird can fly with any kind of wind in its favour. AA members have had birds snatched off their shoulders by hawks as much as in zoo shows with cockatoos.

You need to teach Ollie to fly to you when called inside, not clip her wings. But ultimately, your bird, your responsibility. Keep it in mind.

 

[SandraK]

It's not that I'm afraid of her flying into things - my apartment set up is a bit wonky, with a lot of high up nooks and spaces where I would not be able to get her down from if I needed to. If there was an emergency where I needed to grab Ollie and leave, I would be terrified of her being scared, flying somewhere I can't get her, and having something horrible happen. We also live in a city where if I want to take her outside (she is harness training), I would feel much safer knowing she cannot fly away to the top of some building where I cannot get her. Once I own a house with more room for her, we will let her be fully flighted.

I'm glad your babies are learning how to fly - they're all small birds, correct? I think that a factor in whether to clip or not to clip is definitely size of the bird and the relative space available. In the same size room, cockatiels have a lot more space to fly than a macaw would.

You are absolutely right, my largest bird is a sun conure.The space has nothing to do with it, flying is for my birds' well being and I know that other members on AA have large birds who are not clipped and don't live in mansions. Flying to a bird is as integral as having legs and walking is to us. I feel sorry for you, I really do.

 

[issajoy]

You frustrate me because your bird still can't fly properly but you will still have wings trimmed again. You state that it is for safety reasons where you live and now I am curious. Why? What are the safety reasons? I don't mean to attack but if your fid is inside he/she should be flighted and perfectly safe. Flight is their ONLY escape system. Keep that in mind.

And please, please don't tell me that you're going to take him/her outside clipped without a harness and think she will be safe and won't fly away. Fallacy at it's best. Been there, done that as a beginner bird owner with a Quaker and never again.

Just addressed this in my reply to Garet.
Ollie is harness training, I would never take a bird, clipped or not, outside without a harness.
With my apartment layout, there are nooks and whatnot in double height spaces where I cannot get to her if I needed to evacuate my building with her. I'm not afraid of her being to fly a bit - I just need her to not get height.

I understand it can be frustrating to try to talk with people with different opinions, especially on things we are bird owners are extremely passionate about. Getting accusatory and making assumptions is not a friendly way to discuss things or to try to change someone's mind.

I would love for my bird to be able to fully fly, but at this point of our lives, it's simply too dangerous. She will be partially clipped, so she will not be completely unable to fly - just not be able to get height while indoors.

 

[Garet]

@issajoy They're all small, but that doesn't mean I don't have trouble getting them to do things I want. Geralt likes hiding on the ceiling fans, Guzma and Mims don't like behaving at bed time, Yen likes flying at my dad and brothers whenever he sees them because she loves them more than they love her.

If they were bigs, I'd still probably let them fly, personally. I think living in a small place with not a lot of room to fly, but being able to, is just better than living in a small place and not being able to fly. I get that you wanna do what's best for your bird, but I'll have to respectfully disagree.

 

[issajoy]

You are absolutely right, my largest bird is a sun conure.The space has nothing to do with it, flying is for my birds' well being and I know that other members on AA have large birds who are not clipped and don't live in mansions. Flying to a bird is as integral as having legs and walking is to us. I feel sorry for you, I really do.

Why do you feel sorry for me? I'm doing the best I can to keep my baby safe. We are all entitled to our opinions, and when I think it is safe for Ollie to have full flight, I will be excited to see her soar. But right now, it's not the right decision for us.

This has become so off topic from the original post - so let's get back to that.
If this breeder has the type of bird you are looking for, I don't think that the fact that it's already been clipped should stop you from adopting the bird you would like. If you want your bird to be flighted, the flight feathers will grow back.

 

[issajoy]

@Garet, thank you for being able to have a civil conversation with me about a heated topic. I hear your side and respect what you say, thank you for not trying to shame me or make me feel badly for my decision to keep Ollie partially clipped.

 

[Garet]

@issajoy It's nothing. I really hope that harness training with your bird goes well and you find a nice big place that isn't too expensive for you and Ollie.