Looking for information on hand feeding a Corvid. Specifically a Corvus albicollis/White-Necked Rave

[CatsNbirds]

Hi all ,

Let me start off by saying, I bred various Psittaciformes (parrots) for over 10 years. So, I do have plenty of hand feeding experience. I am also licensed, in a few states in the United States, to do wildlife rehabilitation. However, I have only hand fed a few Turdus migratorius (American Robin) and some Agelaius phoeniceus (Red-winged Blackbird).

However, the breeder told me that feeding a Corvus albicollis (White-necked Raven) is NOTHING like feeding any Psittaciformes sp (parrot) chick. So, you might be wondering why would I take an approximately six week old unweaned chick? The reason is this breeder, along with the over four (4) or five (5) that I have spoken with, recommend taking this species/genus as an unweaned chick. Since, unlike Psittaciformes sp (parrots) chicks they imprint on the actual hand feeder around a certain age. So, it is recommended that the owner "finish" the actual hand feeding.

I can tell you from my experience with certain exotic mammals like an F1 Savannah cat or a Genetta genetta (Spotted Genet) that the above is MOST definitely true! Plus, not being a real "conspiracy theorist", I do not think "my breeder" or the other four (4) or five (5) breeders that I spoke with are all "bad breeders". Or whatever might be a more appropriate term in your personal view.

I am going to be attaching these Youtube clips, that ARE NOT MY OWN, to give you all a better visualization, of what I am trying to explain in a less then eloquent way. Plus, give you all visual evidence of what is expected of me.

I want to comment that this video makes hand feeding look remarkably easy. Is that an "actual way" to do hand feeding? Note that dog food is indeed part of the hand feeding "formula".

This is more like the age that I will be getting my Corvus albicollis (White-necked Raven). Do you think it will be that simple to feed him?

The large White-Necked Raven chick, the breeder claims is around 4 weeks old, could that be true ? If so, they seem like very large birds.

Thank you all for reading and commenting . Could the following people, who have continually helped me, please spare some more time @Amy Pierce , @Birdbabe , @gibsongrrrl , @Greycloud and @waterfaller1 ?

 

[Greycloud]

I can't help you here. Our corvids came to us weaned and one was an adult. They did absolutely find bonding to us.

 

[Birdbabe]

Yes,it,is that easy to feed them. Especially if they're hungry although, we don't use our hands, we use raven puppets with hemostats, but then we don't want "imprinted" babies....you do,,,so if you " hand feed" as shown in the video, make sure your hands are beyond clean,,! And yes, baby ravens are big, noisy and cute as h#((. Remember, high protein and calcium.

 

[CatsNbirds]

I can't help you here. Our corvids came to us weaned and one was an adult. They did absolutely find bonding to us.

Would you recommend that I insist the breeder finishes the hand feeding?

Yes,it,is that easy to feed them.

Well, that is a MAJOR PLUS in my humble opinion .

Especially if they're hungry

I guess the breeder saying they are pretty much always hungry is true then .

although, we don't use our hands,

I am hoping the other two video's "showed up", first of all. If they did not, please tell me and I will re post them. The one YouTube video shows a breeder and his chicks using a spoon for hand feeding and the other YouTube shows an owner of an unweaned (is that the proper spelling of the word, I think so?) chick using a spoon. I was just concerned about using the spoon and possible aspiration. Also, the video from the breeder shows/explains how using a spoon "backwards" is safer. I will be the first to admit that don't have the worlds best visual perception, so I just don't get that comment . Maybe, you can rephrase this for stupid me ?

we use raven puppets with hemostats, but then we don't want "imprinted" babies...

I do understand that. I will say that I do like the idea of using hemostats. Anyway, with the Turdus migratorius ( American Robin) and Agelaius phoeniceus (Red-winged Black Bird) you did not need an elabroate system as you would need with a Corvid. You just did not talk to the birds when hand feeding. Plus, as they got older, you kept a mirror near them, if they where "singletons" till they went outside into there "pre-release cage/prerelease cage" (I am not sure which is proper spelling).

.you do,,,

, Yes I do want a human imprint, at least this time around .

so if you " hand feed" as shown in the video, make sure your hands are beyond clean,,!

I am not sure I would/could actually "hand feed" like that first video, since I am way too paranoid about disease/bacterial issues. Plus, I would say I have plenty of paranoia in general . I am sure you might have noticed .

And yes, baby ravens are big, noisy and cute as h#((.

A really stupid question, but do they "look as big" when they are "adults"? I mean, they look almost Pandion haliaetus (Osprey) size wise. I think I even read that on a website, I don't think that was an "original" observation . I agree they are cute as h#(( !

Remember, high protein and calcium.

So, if they need high protein, do you really think Purina Puppy Chow dry dog food is really a good "hand feeding formula" for them? This a website, if you want to have a look at the ingredients: Dog Food Reviews - Purina Puppy Chow - Powered by ReviewPost ? Would you recommend that I add some type of meat like chicken or cut up Rattus (Rat) along with the dog food? Regarding the calcium, would you recommend egg shells as a good source for extra calcium, bone in chicken for a source of extra calcium or Rep-Cal, that can be seen here: Rep-Cal Supplements ?

Thank you @Greycloud and @Birdbabe so very very much !

Can I ask @expressmailtome , who is one of the most knowledgeable aviculturists I have ever "met" if they have any helpful links that I could look at? I bet they do !

Thank you again everyone !

 

[Birdbabe]

You can get calcium powder, maybe from your breeder or vet and dust his food with it.

 

[Amy Pierce]

I agree with @Birdbabe , it is definitely that easy to feed them! When I'm hand-rearing really young birds, I start out with a syringe, to get them used to me feeding them, and to teach them to respond to the syringe by gaping and asking for food. When they are a bit older I move onto a teaspoon, bent to create a sort of tube, which I use to just slide the food into the baby's mouth (I will post a pic if you need a better idea of what it looks like . Also, as they learn to adjust to this, they start eating the food out of the spoon rather than having it poured into their mouths, which puts them onto the path of eating on their own. My first successfully hand-reared and released birds were a pair of Red-winged Starlings, which were VERY demanding and wanted to be fed every 10 minutes. I started them on formula and then moved on to mealworms and fruit, which I would also just put into their mouths like in the first video you posted. When they got used to 'solid' food, I would hold the worms out in front of them and try get them to pick it up and eat it themselves. It was quite something to watch the clumsy things try to learn how to 'throw' the food back into their mouths, they started out by lying with their necks stretched flat out on the floor so that they wouldn't drop their food, and carefully inching it further into their mouths They got the hang of it very quick though!

I was very nervous about aspirating babies in the beginning, so I always start out by just putting a bit of food in the tip of the baby's mouth and letting them swallow it on their own (providing they don't come to me too weak, in which case I have to 'force' feed, for lack of a better description). When they realise that they are getting food from me, they start trying to put their whole mouths around the syringe, like how they would just about swallow their parents' whole head in order to get the food down Then I know that the syringe isn't going down the wrong 'pipe' and into the lungs. I find feeding with a teaspoon easier because there isn't as much of a risk of aspiration (provided, of course, that the baby isn't weak and responds to having food in its mouth).

I certainly wouldn't worry about your bird not being easy to feed. In my experience, healthy, happy babies are incredibly irritating because of their constant, demanding calls for food . My starlings would sit all day and shout at my feet for food, apparently confusing my toes for fingers. When my toes didn't produce any food, they would start biting them to show their disapproval They were absolute characters and I can honestly say I had the most fun raising them! It was a very quick 2 weeks before they were fledged, weaned, and moved into a pre-release aviary. The weaning was quite a process because they would insist on being hand-fed, despite the fact that I had watched them feed themselves quite easily when they thought I wasn't there. During weaning, they would fly at me to try sit on my head whenever I walked in the room, and because they were still getting the hang of flying, they would often hit my face instead, leaving me with lovely, long scratches down my cheeks

 

[CatsNbirds]

I agree with @Birdbabe , it is definitely that easy to feed them!

I am REALLY GLAD to hear that !

When I'm hand-rearing really young birds, I start out with a syringe, to get them used to me feeding them, and to teach them to respond to the syringe by gaping and asking for food.

I have never really had to hand-feed a "wild"/native bird that small... THANK THE LORD!

When they are a bit older I move onto a teaspoon, bent to create a sort of tube, which I use to just slide the food into the baby's mouth (I will post a pic if you need a better idea of what it looks like .

I am PRETTY SURE that I understand what you mean. But, since you where kind enough to offer me a photo(s), I will most definitely say yes, I would love a picture. If you can see the YouTube's that I posted, please have a look at the third one. This illustrates how I am supposed to feed my specimen.

Also, as they learn to adjust to this, they start eating the food out of the spoon rather than having it poured into their mouths, which puts them onto the path of eating on their own.

That is all great information to be aware of and I can't wait till my chick is eating on his own!

My first successfully hand-reared and released birds were a pair of Red-winged Starlings, which were VERY demanding and wanted to be fed every 10 minutes.

I was told, by the breeder, that my Corvus albicollis would want to eat four (4) to five (5) times a day by six (6) weeks old. Does that sound realistic? I would not want to or really have time to feed my specimen every 10 minutes. I just looked up Red-winged Starling or Onychognathus morio. Those are very attractive birds.

I started them on formula and then moved on to mealworms and fruit, which I would also just put into their mouths like in the first video you posted.

Do you think, I could just wet/soak the dog food and drop it into my chicks mouth like in the first video? Or, should I do like is illustrated in the second and third videos?

When they got used to 'solid' food, I would hold the worms out in front of them and try get them to pick it up and eat it themselves.

Alright, that is great to know. So, that is how I should get my White-necked Raven to eat his pellets, fruits, vegetables, nuts and meats?

It was quite something to watch the clumsy things try to learn how to 'throw' the food back into their mouths, they started out by lying with their necks stretched flat out on the floor so that they wouldn't drop their food, and carefully inching it further into their mouths

That had to be adorable to watch . I wonder if my specimen will do that? It would be cute to see such a large Corvid do that.

They got the hang of it very quick though!

Well considering how "food motivated" they are/where that would NOT surprise me .

I was very nervous about aspirating babies in the beginning, so I always start out by just putting a bit of food in the tip of the baby's mouth and letting them swallow it on their own (providing they don't come to me too weak, in which case I have to 'force' feed, for lack of a better description).

I am glad that I am not the only one who is scared of causing aspiration. When I "hand fed" the "wild species" I soaked the dog food, worms, eggs, and egg shells and made a paste. Then, I dipped a clean paint brush into the "mush". Next, once the paint was covered in mush, I fed it to the specimen(s). I was told that feeding a Corvus albicollis that way would be insanly time consuming and at six (6) weeks old, my specimen might eat the "brush" part . What do you think of my method?

When they realise that they are getting food from me, they start trying to put their whole mouths around the syringe, like how they would just about swallow their parents' whole head in order to get the food down

Wait, should I get my specimen used to a syringe or the bent spoon? Or, should I do like YouTube video one (1) and two (2) illustrate. I am sorry, but this whole thing has my mind spinning .

Then I know that the syringe isn't going down the wrong 'pipe' and into the lungs.

That is a fantastic way to "promote safety" and keep aspiration to a minimum.

I find feeding with a teaspoon easier because there isn't as much of a risk of aspiration (provided, of course, that the baby isn't weak and responds to having food in its mouth).

I am assuming, that my specimen will be healthy and since he will be around six (6) weeks old, he should have no trouble feeding from a spoon. Plus, that will be how the breeder will have fed him. Hence, similar to how he is used to eating. That all makes sense right?

I certainly wouldn't worry about your bird not being easy to feed.

Yay yay and Yay ! That makes me A) very happy and B) less scared.

In my experience, healthy, happy babies are incredibly irritating because of their constant, demanding calls for food .

Funny you should mention that, both the breeder and the person who taught me how to feed the "native birds" said that my Corvus albicollis begging calls should be driving me crazy in about twenty four (24) hours and completely insane shortly there after .

My starlings would sit all day and shout at my feet for food, apparently confusing my toes for fingers.

I hate to say this, but that sounds adorable . I am sure that is because I did not live with it .

When my toes didn't produce any food, they would start biting them to show their disapproval

Now, that sounds less then pleasant .

They were absolute characters and I can honestly say I had the most fun raising them!

They definitely sound like a riot .

It was a very quick 2 weeks before they were fledged, weaned, and moved into a pre-release aviary.

Any chance, my White-necked Raven will learn to eat that fast ?

The weaning was quite a process because they would insist on being hand-fed, despite the fact that I had watched them feed themselves quite easily when they thought I wasn't there.

I know with pet Psittaciformes (parrots) you want to continue that type of hand-feeding for a while. You know, the idea of "abundance" weaning. Do I want to do "abundance" weaning with my Corvus albicollis? I mean since he will be my pet and not "released into nature".

During weaning, they would fly at me to try sit on my head whenever I walked in the room, and because they were still getting the hang of flying, they would often hit my face instead, leaving me with lovely, long scratches down my cheeks

I just can't wait to experience the above first hand

 

[Amy Pierce]

I am PRETTY SURE that I understand what you mean. But, since you where kind enough to offer me a photo(s), I will most definitely say yes, I would love a picture. If you can see the YouTube's that I posted, please have a look at the third one. This illustrates how I am supposed to feed my specimen.

I seem to have misplaced my "bird spoon" I haven't had any babies to raise in a while! But here's a pic of one very similar to mine that I saw on the internet! Mine was just slightly more 'bent' and wasn't done quite as neatly as this I didn't bend the spoon myself, but I would think you could just do it with a pair of pliers, perhaps even heating the spoon up first (Oh, and I read the reason the spoon works so well is because it imitates the parent bird's lower mandible! Thought that was quite interesting

I was told, by the breeder, that my Corvus albicollis would want to eat four (4) to five (5) times a day by six (6) weeks old. Does that sound realistic? I would not want to or really have time to feed my specimen every 10 minutes.

I think this sounds realistic. When they are still very young (a few days/nearly featherless) the parents are in and out with food every 10 minutes! But as they get older they don't need food as often.

Do you think, I could just wet/soak the dog food and drop it into my chicks mouth like in the first video? Or, should I do like is illustrated in the second and third videos?

I think this sounds like a good method. It would have to be properly soaked though so as to not scratch the baby's throat/crop. I know a lady who raised a swallow on cat pellets. She would leave the food soaking for a few hours so that it would go down nicely. In this way the bird was also staying hydrated! But because I have never had to feed a bird like this, I also cannot say which exactly is the best method. I can just say that I would think the dog food should be soft enough for easy ingestion. I think as your chick gets older as well, it will become more and more easy to feed them! It gets to the point where you can just about do it with your eyes closed Each feeding session with my starlings would take about 30 seconds

Alright, that is great to know. So, that is how I should get my White-necked Raven to eat his pellets, fruits, vegetables, nuts and meats?

It's a pretty good way to get them to start eating on their own! I had to be quite tough in that I would have to ignore their begging calls and leave them to try the food on their own, but obviously not long enough to let them get too hungry or dehydrated! If they battled, I would feed them a bit, but then leave them again to practice eating on their own.

I am glad that I am not the only one who is scared of causing aspiration. When I "hand fed" the "wild species" I soaked the dog food, worms, eggs, and egg shells and made a paste. Then, I dipped a clean paint brush into the "mush". Next, once the paint was covered in mush, I fed it to the specimen(s). I was told that feeding a Corvus albicollis that way would be insanly time consuming and at six (6) weeks old, my specimen might eat the "brush" part . What do you think of my method?

I must say, I've never heard of your brush method before! I think perhaps the baby bird might try eat the brush part, I'm afraid I really can't tell you for sure though! I've only ever fed with syringes, the teaspoon or by hand! I can say though that with mixing up a variety of foods (for example, when you said you once used dog food, worms, eggs etc) I think a spoon would be easier. A syringe can be dangerous if its lumpy food! I know I once had to mash up fruit for a softbill, and then tried to use a syringe to feed it. The plunger seems to get stuck, so I moved it away from the baby and pushed really hard, and the fruit came shooting out at one heck of a speed needless to say I quickly switched to the teaspoon! Because of this, I only use the syringe when I am still using formula

And yes, it will be very time consuming! But its amazing how quick they grow and are ready to 'fend' for themselves!

Wait, should I get my specimen used to a syringe or the bent spoon? Or, should I do like YouTube video one (1) and two (2) illustrate. I am sorry, but this whole thing has my mind spinning .

I think by the time you get your baby, you probably won't have to use a syringe at all! You can probably just do as in videos one and two. In video 3, you can see the birds are still very young!

I am assuming, that my specimen will be healthy and since he will be around six (6) weeks old, he should have no trouble feeding from a spoon. Plus, that will be how the breeder will have fed him. Hence, similar to how he is used to eating. That all makes sense right?

Makes perfect sense!!

Funny you should mention that, both the breeder and the person who taught me how to feed the "native birds" said that my Corvus albicollis begging calls should be driving me crazy in about twenty four (24) hours and completely insane shortly there after .

They absolutely will! My bird room is also my "study" (I home school) and on numerous occasions when babies have been shouting for food despite having JUST been fed, I've just clean given up and walked out, vowing to never do it again (don't tell them that) But after about a minute or so I realise that I hate the silence and go back in to be shouted at some more (and begging forgiveness from them of course)

Any chance, my White-necked Raven will learn to eat that fast ?

I know with pet Psittaciformes (parrots) you want to continue that type of hand-feeding for a while. You know, the idea of "abundance" weaning. Do I want to do "abundance" weaning with my Corvus albicollis? I mean since he will be my pet and not "released into nature".

I'm sure your White-necked Raven will learn to eat very quickly! And you can definitely take as long as you like with hand-feeding. I had to hurry with weaning my starlings so they could be released and adjust to life in the wild before the winter months. I also couldn't let them stay with me for too long, as number 1, it would have been even more difficult to say goodbye to them, and number 2, they may have gotten too used to me and life in 'captivity'. Also, with such a hurried weaning process, I found that they had a tendency to "relapse" very quickly! For example, I had to spend the whole of one morning trying to get my starlings to eat on their own. I would have to hold a worm out on my fingers, and then as one of the birds moved towards it, I would slowly put it down onto the floor so that they could get the hang of not eating out my hands! That afternoon my brother brought one of his friends to see the birds, and because he (my brother) didn't know what I had spent the whole morning doing, he picked up the worms and started hand-feeding the birds. It took me about another day and a half to get them out of the habit of eating out of a hand again! But with a bird that will be staying with you, you can take much longer! I've had much more "relaxed" weaning processes with birds that can't go back into the wild.

My starlings also "wilded-up" very quickly, but I think thats also because they were in a pair. If it had been one, it probably would have been much for difficult to get them "wild"!

 

[CatsNbirds]

I seem to have misplaced my "bird spoon" I haven't had any babies to raise in a while!

Thank you, very much for looking. I am not sure if it is a good or bad thing that you haven't had any babies to raise. I suppose, that is up for interpretation.

But here's a pic of one very similar to mine that I saw on the internet! Mine was just slightly more 'bent' and wasn't done quite as neatly as this

It is amazing what someone can find on the internet . I am sure mine would not have been so neat either .

I didn't bend the spoon myself, but I would think you could just do it with a pair of pliers, perhaps even heating the spoon up first (Oh, and I read the reason the spoon works so well is because it imitates the parent bird's lower mandible! Thought that was quite interesting

Yes, your idea's on how to bend the spoon sounds quite useful, as always, THANK YOU. Yes, that information on how that spoon "imitates" the lower mandible is indeed very very interesting.

View attachment 175674

Thank you, very very much for the visual. How did you clean the spoon anyway?

I think this sounds realistic. When they are still very young (a few days/nearly featherless) the parents are in and out with food every 10 minutes! But as they get older they don't need food as often.

I am very very glad that my chick will be past the every 10 minute feeding stage .

I think this sounds like a good method. It would have to be properly soaked though so as to not scratch the baby's throat/crop.

When I hand fed the native species, I would soak the dog food till it was "spongy". Does that sound acceptable?

I know a lady who raised a swallow on cat pellets. She would leave the food soaking for a few hours so that it would go down nicely.

Yes, that is exactly what I did with the dry dog kibble. I am guessing pellets is what the USA calls kibble/dry food?

In this way the bird was also staying hydrated! But because I have never had to feed a bird like this, I also cannot say which exactly is the best method.

In my experience, it is indeed a great way to keep them hydrated. It is also the only way, I have fed a non Psittaciformes (parrot) aves.

I can just say that I would think the dog food should be soft enough for easy ingestion.

In my experience, it definitely was for the Turdus migratorius (American Robin) and Agelaius phoeniceus (Red-winged Black Bird).

I think as your chick gets older as well, it will become more and more easy to feed them!

I am really really glad you think so and I really really hope so !

It gets to the point where you can just about do it with your eyes closed Each feeding session with my starlings would take about 30 seconds

I can't wait to get to that point !

It's a pretty good way to get them to start eating on their own! I had to be quite tough in that I would have to ignore their begging calls and leave them to try the food on their own, but obviously not long enough to let them get too hungry or dehydrated! If they battled, I would feed them a bit, but then leave them again to practice eating on their own.

I am guessing with a pet Corvus albicollis (White-Necked Raven) it is not so "important" that my specimen learns to "eat on his own" so quickly?

I must say, I've never heard of your brush method before!

What can I tell you, we Americans have crazy methods .

I think perhaps the baby bird might try eat the brush part, I'm afraid I really can't tell you for sure though!

Well, technically, the bird does try to eat the paint brush. But, with the species I have worked with they physically can't. They just eat the mush.

I've only ever fed with syringes, the teaspoon or by hand!

I have used a syringe with various Psittaciformes (Parrots) species. But, I would be afraid to use it on my Corvid. I feel much more confident with the teaspoon and my hand. In theory at least .

I can say though that with mixing up a variety of foods (for example, when you said you once used dog food, worms, eggs etc) I think a spoon would be easier.

Thank you, for that pertinent information. I am NOT SURE, what I am supposed to mix with my Corvus albicollis (Wgite-necked Raven) "formula". I will say using the paint brush method and making the mix was a real pain in the tush.

A syringe can be dangerous if its lumpy food!

1) I would not want to do anything dangerous to my specimen!
2) I am too paranoid for "lumps" .

I know I once had to mash up fruit for a softbill, and then tried to use a syringe to feed it. The plunger seems to get stuck, so I moved it away from the baby and pushed really hard, and the fruit came shooting out at one heck of a speed needless to say I quickly switched to the teaspoon!

I will definitely be using the spoon then !

Because of this, I only use the syringe when I am still using formula

I got ya and that sounds very very wise, IMHO.

And yes, it will be very time consuming! But its amazing how quick they grow and are ready to 'fend' for themselves!

I am hoping with four (4) to six (6) hand feedings a day, it won't be too incredibly time consuming. It can't be too soon for me, I can tell . The "baby phase" doesn't do that much for me .

I think by the time you get your baby, you probably won't have to use a syringe at all!

That is very very good to know, IMHO. As I do not want to use one .

You can probably just do as in videos one and two. In video 3, you can see the birds are still very young!

That is great to know , since those are the methods I "feel most comfortable with". I would never take my specimen that young.

Makes perfect sense!!

Glad to know I made some sense. I am NEVER sure that I do !

They absolutely will! My bird room is also my "study" (I home school) and on numerous occasions when babies have been shouting for food despite having JUST been fed, I've just clean given up and walked out, vowing to never do it again (don't tell them that) But after about a minute or so I realise that I hate the silence and go back in to be shouted at some more (and begging forgiveness from them of course)

I have done very little wildlife rehab. I have bred various species of parrots/hookbills over the years. In fact, when the USA economy was good, I know that was a LONG LONG time ago , I made a living raising various Psittaciformes (parrots). However, my babies and breeders where my "bread and butter". So, I never got tired of those begging calls . However, having listened to a large Corvid beg to be fed, I can see where it will get draining quite quickly.

I'm sure your White-necked Raven will learn to eat very quickly!

From your mouth to Gods ears .

And you can definitely take as long as you like with hand-feeding.

While, I would love to "rush it/hurry it along", I do not want to have an "emotionally" stunted specimen.

I had to hurry with weaning my starlings so they could be released and adjust to life in the wild before the winter months. I also couldn't let them stay with me for too long, as number 1, it would have been even more difficult to say goodbye to them, and number 2, they may have gotten too used to me and life in 'captivity'.

I should have been clearer, I am sorry , I do know there is a difference between "wild birds" and "pet quality" ones.

Also, with such a hurried weaning process, I found that they had a tendency to "relapse" very quickly!

I was told, I have no idea if it is true, that Corvids are prone to having various "relapses" with the hand feeding process. Like the Cacatua (Cockatoo) species are. I sure know Cacatua are, from breeding experience .

For example, I had to spend the whole of one morning trying to get my starlings to eat on their own. I would have to hold a worm out on my fingers, and then as one of the birds moved towards it, I would slowly put it down onto the floor so that they could get the hang of not eating out my hands! That afternoon my brother brought one of his friends to see the birds, and because he (my brother) didn't know what I had spent the whole morning doing, he picked up the worms and started hand-feeding the birds. It took me about another day and a half to get them out of the habit of eating out of a hand again !

I am amazed how good you are with wildlife rehab. You just gotta love family !

But with a bird that will be staying with you, you can take much longer! I've had much more "relaxed" weaning processes with birds that can't go back into the wild.

I am not into "abundance weaning" cause it is popular or that I like baby animals. I just want my pet Corvus albicollis (White-necked Raven) to be "well adjusted". Both physically and emotionally.

My starlings also "wilded-up" very quickly, but I think thats also because they were in a pair. If it had been one, it probably would have been much for difficult to get them "wild"!

I was VERY glad when I had two or more of the same species when I did wildlife rehab. For the exact reason(s) you mentioned.

I do have some other questions for you, lucky you , and seriously, I hope you do not mind. Anyway, do you think abundance weaning is the same with Corvids as it is with Psittaciformes? Do you think, abundance weaning is as important with Corvids as Psittaciformes? Lastly, with Psittaciformes it can take six months or more (if you truly do abundance weaning) with some species to wean. Do you suspect it would be the same with a Corvus albicollis?

P.S.- I am very very sorry for the late reply. I had a crazy week! Thank you, for your prompt reply. I will be more prompt this time, I hope .

 

[Amy Pierce]

Thank you, very much for looking. I am not sure if it is a good or bad thing that you haven't had any babies to raise. I suppose, that is up for interpretation.

Right now, not having any babies is a good thing! I've got mid-year exams in 2 weeks so have been studying like mad! But I do miss having them around But it tends to happen like that, things are quiet for weeks at a time until suddenly you get a whole lot of orphans at once

Thank you, very very much for the visual. How did you clean the spoon anyway?

I wash thoroughly with warm water after every feed, and then in the mornings before I start feeding for the day I wash it along with my other bowls in hot water. I also make sure I thoroughly disinfect before using it on others birds (if I use the same spoon), usually just by soaking it in hot water with bleach and then rinsing.

When I hand fed the native species, I would soak the dog food till it was "spongy". Does that sound acceptable?

That sounds perfectly fine

Yes, that is exactly what I did with the dry dog kibble. I am guessing pellets is what the USA calls kibble/dry food?

Yep, pellets are the same!

I am guessing with a pet Corvus albicollis (White-Necked Raven) it is not so "important" that my specimen learns to "eat on his own" so quickly?

No, I think you and your specimen can take all the time you like!

I have used a syringe with various Psittaciformes (Parrots) species. But, I would be afraid to use it on my Corvid. I feel much more confident with the teaspoon and my hand. In theory at least .

I think you'll be fine if you just stick with your gut and go with what you are comfortable with!

I have done very little wildlife rehab. I have bred various species of parrots/hookbills over the years. In fact, when the USA economy was good, I know that was a LONG LONG time ago , I made a living raising various Psittaciformes (parrots). However, my babies and breeders where my "bread and butter". So, I never got tired of those begging calls . However, having listened to a large Corvid beg to be fed, I can see where it will get draining quite quickly.

I would just LOVE to breed and sell birds! But with all the "backyard breeders" around here, and the horror stories of neglected birds I have seen, I wouldn't end up selling a single bird! They would all just end up staying with me

I do have some other questions for you, lucky you , and seriously, I hope you do not mind. Anyway, do you think abundance weaning is the same with Corvids as it is with Psittaciformes? Do you think, abundance weaning is as important with Corvids as Psittaciformes? Lastly, with Psittaciformes it can take six months or more (if you truly do abundance weaning) with some species to wean. Do you suspect it would be the same with a Corvus albicollis?

I don't think abundance weaning is the same with Corvids as it is with Psittaciformes. However I cannot speak from experience, it is just my general opinion! I can just tell you what my gut tells me, and that is that Corvids, along with other "wild" bird species, are not quite as "domesticated" as parrots. While any bird that has hatched, been raised, and lived its life in captivity will have a difficult time surviving if it were to suddenly be placed in the wild, I would put my money on a Corvid having a much better chance than a parrot. But I must stress the fact that I haven't hand-raised a parrot, so while I know that it can be quite a process, weaning a wild bird seems (to me) to be much easier. Again, this is probably because the birds I get have always spent a short amount of time with their parents before being orphaned, so perhaps that plays an important role in it!
Sorry, I realise now that was quite off the topic To summarise (I hope I haven't waffled on too much by now), I do feel as though a Corvid will be easier and quicker to raise than Psittaciformes, and if you wanted to or had to, you could probably wean it in a matter of weeks like I did with my starlings. I know starlings and Corvids are totally different species, but they do seem to have the same cheeky, tough and mischievous personalities! My starlings fledged, learnt to fly and were weaned in 2 weeks! They then spent another few weeks in a pre-release aviary where they had to feed themselves and learn to associate with other birds (who they then started bullying )

Another thing that makes Corvids seem so tough to me, is that the woman I mentioned before has never come across one in all the twenty years she has been rescuing and rehabilitating!

I don't know if you get Hills pet food where you are, but one thing I use for baby birds that need extra protein is Hills Canine/Feline Critical Care. I would take a small scoop and mix it in with formula Because I only used a tiny bit each time, and it went off so quickly, I stored it in ice trays, with one scoop in each "cube", that way when I needed it I just popped one out and left it to defrost

 

[CatsNbirds]

Right now, not having any babies is a good thing! I've got mid-year exams in 2 weeks so have been studying like mad! But I do miss having them around

I am very very sorry you miss having them around. But at least: A) You have something else to occupy your time (studying....O joy.... O rapture ) and B) At least in two weeks, the exams will be over.

As a side "note": You are amazing for a high school student. I am amazed at your maturity and knowledge.

But it tends to happen like that, things are quiet for weeks at a time until suddenly you get a whole lot of orphans at once

As they say, in America at least, "it is all or nothing".

I wash thoroughly with warm water after every feed, and then in the mornings before I start feeding for the day I wash it along with my other bowls in hot water. I also make sure I thoroughly disinfect before using it on others birds (if I use the same spoon), usually just by soaking it in hot water with bleach and then rinsing.

Thank you for all that information. Do you have any special washing "procedure" for your hands/body? I just washed with antibacterial soap before hand feeding my various Psittaciformes chicks. Would the same regimen work with the Corvid chick?

That sounds perfectly fine

Glad that sounds good and or reasonable to you . I very very much value your opinion .

Yep, pellets are the same!

I figured. But I am so ditsy and dense, I can never be too sure .

No, I think you and your specimen can take all the time you like!

Okay, I will keep that in mind .

I think you'll be fine if you just stick with your gut and go with what you are comfortable with!

Just keep reminding paranoid me .

I would just LOVE to breed and sell birds! But with all the "backyard breeders" around here, and the horror stories of neglected birds I have seen, I wouldn't end up selling a single bird! They would all just end up staying with me

I am sure, according to a lot of people I was a backyard breeder. I had over 200 adult breeders of various species and always a 100+ chicks to hand feed every month. Plus, countless eggs. However, I did NOT work. So, my entire time was spent caring for the adults/chicks.

I don't think abundance weaning is the same with Corvids as it is with Psittaciformes.

Thank you, for that information.

However I cannot speak from experience, it is just my general opinion!

Still, your hypothesis sounds very very reasonable to me !

I can just tell you what my gut tells me, and that is that Corvids, along with other "wild" bird species, are not quite as "domesticated" as parrots.

I am just playing "devils advocate" here and or " adding my knowledge" of Psittaciformes. I am not questioning your supremacy. Please keep that in mind.

I am just "voicing my opinion". Anyway, from my very limited knowledge of wild Psittaciformes is that they are parent fed much longer then Corvids. However, I believe and I could be VERY VERY wrong, that Corvids spend longer "learning" from there parents.

While any bird that has hatched, been raised, and lived its life in captivity will have a difficult time surviving if it were to suddenly be placed in the wild, I would put my money on a Corvid having a much better chance than a parrot.

I completely agree.

But I must stress the fact that I haven't hand-raised a parrot, so while I know that it can be quite a process, weaning a wild bird seems (to me) to be much easier.

Yet again, I completely agree with you . However, my experience with native birds is limited to just two species. Plus, within those two species, I have "raised" less then 50 individuals. So, I would say my sample size is lacking...... .

Again, this is probably because the birds I get have always spent a short amount of time with their parents before being orphaned, so perhaps that plays an important role in it!

That might be true, but I always pulled my chicks from fourteen days to 37 days, depending on the species.

Sorry, I realise now that was quite off the topic To summarise (I hope I haven't waffled on too much by now),

No worries. I waffle all the time .

I do feel as though a Corvid will be easier and quicker to raise than Psittaciformes, and if you wanted to or had to, you could probably wean it in a matter of weeks like I did with my starlings.

That is fantastic to know . I suspect you are correct too .

I know starlings and Corvids are totally different species, but they do seem to have the same cheeky, tough and mischievous personalities!

That is for sure .

My starlings fledged, learnt to fly and were weaned in 2 weeks! They then spent another few weeks in a pre-release aviary where they had to feed themselves and learn to associate with other birds (who they then started bullying )

Wow, they are very very hardy. Just like the USA's invasive Sturnus vulgaris.

Another thing that makes Corvids seem so tough to me, is that the woman I mentioned before has never come across one in all the twenty years she has been rescuing and rehabilitating!

I would say that makes Corvids very very tough. The breeder said, these birds are "tough as nails". I am beginning to think that is true .

I don't know if you get Hills pet food where you are, but one thing I use for baby birds that need extra protein is Hills Canine/Feline Critical Care. I would take a small scoop and mix it in with formula Because I only used a tiny bit each time, and it went off so quickly, I stored it in ice trays, with one scoop in each "cube", that way when I needed it I just popped one out and left it to defrost
View attachment 176083

Yes, we do have that in the USA. The funny part, I always have some in the house cause of my Felis catus.

1) The specimen I am getting will be weaned onto Purina Puppy Chow . I do not have any other choice.
2) How long should I wait before adding the pellets mentioned in that video and Mazuri ZuLife Low Iron Soft Bill Diet Per/Lb - FOOD FOR SOFTBILLS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE ?
3) How do I add both of those to the dog food?
4) The only Benbac I have heard of is for mammals. Is that the one I should get? This is the one I am talking about: Bene-Bac® Plus Gel for Dogs and Cats - Jeffers Pet
5) Should I be soaking the dog food/pellets in hot water or Pedialyte (http://pedialyte.com/)?
6) Should I add protein like pinkey mice and or quail to the mix?

1) That video makes the hand feeding look easy. Is it that easy?
2) I like the way he did the plastic spoon. Plus, it is more hygienic.
3) How do I make sure the chick gets enough outdoor time? I do not want him to have calcium absorption problems !
4) Is that hay in a box really a good idea? Is it hygienic?
5) Are there toenails really that prone to getting ripped off?

 

[Amy Pierce]

I am very very sorry you miss having them around. But at least: A) You have something else to occupy your time (studying....O joy.... O rapture ) and B) At least in two weeks, the exams will be over.

I cannot wait for this semester to be over! Birds, birds, birds!

As a side "note": You are amazing for a high school student. I am amazed at your maturity and knowledge.

Thank you so much, that means a lot to me Its nice having found a forum where people are willing to hear you out!

Thank you for all that information. Do you have any special washing "procedure" for your hands/body? I just washed with antibacterial soap before hand feeding my various Psittaciformes chicks. Would the same regimen work with the Corvid chick?

I also just use antibacterial wash when feeding and before and after handling any chicks I'll do a more rigorous wash if I'm dealing with a sick bird, but that probably won't be a concern of yours!

I am sure, according to a lot of people I was a backyard breeder. I had over 200 adult breeders of various species and always a 100+ chicks to hand feed every month. Plus, countless eggs. However, I did NOT work. So, my entire time was spent caring for the adults/chicks.

Wow, that must have been quite a job!! I'm quite certain you were not like our backyard breeders here. The state of some of the animals is enough to give you nightmares. I'm not sure if you saw the thread I made about a budgie I got with a severe case of scaly face. She was from a supposed breeder

I am just "voicing my opinion". Anyway, from my very limited knowledge of wild Psittaciformes is that they are parent fed much longer then Corvids. However, I believe and I could be VERY VERY wrong, that Corvids spend longer "learning" from there parents.

This sounds right Its true that most wild birds stay with their parents for quite some time learning "the ways of the world". So whereas they might be weaned in a couple of weeks, they'll hang around for a while learning to be independent.

1) The specimen I am getting will be weaned onto Purina Puppy Chow . I do not have any other choice.
2) How long should I wait before adding the pellets mentioned in that video and Mazuri ZuLife Low Iron Soft Bill Diet Per/Lb - FOOD FOR SOFTBILLS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE ?

I think you can probably start introducing them slowly, mixing just a few in with your birds normal food and gradually increasing the amount.

1)3) How do I add both of those to the dog food?

Just by soaking them and then mixing it all into a fairly regular consistency, like he did with the meat.

1)4) The only Benbac I have heard of is for mammals. Is that the one I should get? This is the one I am talking about: Bene-Bac® Plus Gel for Dogs and Cats - Jeffers Pet

I haven't heard of Benbac, I don't think we get it here (well done, SA), but I did google it and I found this Bird and Reptile Bene-Bac Plus Gel (Canada) for Animal Use - Drugs.com that seems to be for birds and reptiles.

1)5) Should I be soaking the dog food/pellets in hot water or Pedialyte (http://pedialyte.com/)?

I haven't heard of Pedialyte either, and again I doubt we get it here but if the guy in the video uses it, then I'm sure there's no harm. But water is fine, warm, and not too hot so as to avoid burning the crop. If our tap water is dirty (which happens often, thanks to our brilliant water services and the fact that pipes are constantly bursting), then I buy bottled water for my birds

1)6) Should I add protein like pinkey mice and or quail to the mix?

Again, I would trust the guy in the video he seems to be really clued up! I'm sure pinkey mice will be a great source of protein for your Corvid!

1)1) That video makes the hand feeding look easy. Is it that easy?

Definitely that easy! And even easier when you only have one

1)2) I like the way he did the plastic spoon. Plus, it is more hygienic.

I also like the plastic spoon. I think I might give it a try next time I'm hand-rearing!

1)3) How do I make sure the chick gets enough outdoor time? I do not want him to have calcium absorption problems !

Placing your chick in a cage outside in the sun for a few hours will allow it plenty of calcium absorption. Its just important to make sure it doesn't come into contact with any other wild birds or their droppings. All my bird cages are on cages next to a big window. They get plenty of sun and fresh air from an open window when the wind isn't too chilly I have a balcony where I can also put cages, but I don't do this unless I'm there to watch that my cats don't get too curious!

1)4) Is that hay in a box really a good idea? Is it hygienic?
5) Are there toenails really that prone to getting ripped off?

Hay isn't a bad idea, just along as it doesn't go moldy or get damp. I don't use it, because it gets very humid here, despite the fact that I don't have immediate access to it. I think for the guy in the video its a cheap, hygienic way for him to have lots of chicks on nests. I use blankets and cloth towels for babies I get when they are still very young, but I always make sure there are no loose threads and that it isn't easy for their claws to get stuck.

Unfortunately, something like this happened to my mousebird. I made the rookie mistake of leaving a cloth by his cage overnight, and when I came through in the morning I found his toe caught in the blanket. The toe had actually clean torn off and was just hanging by some skin. I had to cut the rest of it off myself (and cried like a baby the whole time, despite the fact that he hardly even noticed). Luckily there was hardly any blood and he just had to adjust to not having his "grabbing" toe, which they use to hang on things. Although it may be easy for their toenails to get caught, you still have to apply a considerable amount of pressure when picking them up to pull it off. I'm always very gentle with young babies, and I never have "heavy" material, because sometimes they also tend to hold on to the material when I pick them up. By using lighter cloth, if they're still holding on, it just comes with them . I don't really see it being easy to rip the toenails off when picking them up. I think its more likely to happen if the baby tries to move and finds itself caught, its never happened to me except in the case of my mousebird, and that was just because they hop around from place to place, so it was one, quick movement that pulled it off.

 

[expressmailtome]

Amy is a wealth of information. I have to defer to her knowledge as I have never raised corvids myself. Did Brian have any ideas on the calcium? I know that some softbill breeders coat the mealworms that they feed with powdered calcium carbonate. Egg shells have a lot of calcium, but if not powdered correctly there can be small sharp pieces that can cut their insides. As Amy said, he will need a good amount of calcium and vitamin D to develop his bones properly. I am sorry that I can not be more helpful.

Matt