Jess(s) for a White-necked Raven (Corvus albicollis)

[CatsNbirds]

lAll,

I am aware the jesses are NOT recommended for parrots. Truthfully, I did not like the idea for putting them on my White-necked Raven (Corvus albicollis) when I finally get him. But, the breeder (The Corvid Ranch) recommends them and uses them on the chicks from a young age.

After checking out YouTube, you do indeed see many crows such as American Crows (Corvus brachyrhynchos) and Pied Crows (Corvus albus) with jesses. Plus hybrid ravens, American Raven (Corvus corax) and White-necked Raven (Corvus albicollis) with them too. So, that leads me to believe that you are indeed "supposed" to use jesses on Corvids as someone would on a bird of prey used for falconry.

I would also like to say, the jesses that I have seen and was told by the breeder to use are the leather type. Not the ones (I have really only seen two) I have seen marketed for parrots.

This is a website "endorsing" jesses for Corvids: Corvid Ranch Care and another White Necked African Ravens I am assuming anklets are another term for jess? Also, I will add a few YouTube videos showing various Corvids with jesses on.

Please everyone give me your two cents .

Thank you for reading and responding.

 

[Greycloud]

When I worked at the zoo we did use soft jesses on our Ravens. They did very well with them. When training started with the jesses they did tend to pick at them more then our birds of prey did, but after a few days were fine. You can also use a medium Aviator Harness.

***Jesses are NOT recommended for parrots.

 

[CatsNbirds]

When I worked at the zoo

, you worked in a zoo . To me, that is just AMAZING!!!

we did use soft jesses on our Ravens.

Can I ask you what type of Ravens you had the pleasure of working with? I also have a ton of other questions ( regarding health and diet) that are in the "Softbiill Circle". Would you mind giving me your experiences/imparting information onto me in that thread too? I could also make separate threads (two in the health section and one in the diet section) if you want. You just tell me what you would prefer. , in advance. Lastly, are the leather jesses the "soft type"? If so, where can I buy them?
They did very well with them.

That is great to know.

When training started with the jesses they did tend to pick at them more then our birds of prey did, but after a few days were fine.

Another wonderful thing to know, thank you again. Did the Ravens continue to pick at them once they "got used to them"?

You can also use a medium Aviator Harness.

I will have to look that up later, as I have NO IDEA what this is .

***Jesses are NOT recommended for parrots.

Thank you, for your prompt response. Thank you, very very much for helping me. ANY, and I do mean ANY, information you want to share with me about Ravens would be greatly appreciated. Lastly, my responses are in red.

 

[karen256]

I've also heard of jesses used for corvids. I think the anklets are just the part around the ankle, jesses are the part extending from the anklet. Anklets are semi permanent (usually replaced yearly or so) since they require restraint to put on and must be cut to be removed.
Traditionally the anklet and jess would be one piece, but it is now more common for the jesses to be a separate piece, for safety reasons (larger jesses with holes when a bird is going to be leashed, smaller jesses swapped in when a bird is going to fly outside, so the jesses are less likely to get caught on something).
I would think for a crow, you might be ok not using jesses at all in the house/aviary and just putting them on to be able to leash your bird to take it outside. Raptors need jesses so the falconer can keep their feet under control somewhat - you wouldn't want a raptor deciding to perch somewhere other than the glove. I don't think a crow would have that kind of grip.

The Modern Apprentice - Jesses

 

[Greycloud]

I will be back to answer your questions in a bit. I am experiencing some health issues right now. Sorry.

 

[VictoriaVague]

Hope you're feeling better soon @Greycloud

 

[GlassOnion]

Very interesting to see those who are in favour of jesses on corvids. They have very little strength in their legs as they are incapable of carrying weighted objects or swinging upside down with their body weight on one foot as parrots can. How is a jess okay for a corvid yet horribly dangerous for a parrot who has significantly stronger hip/legs? Sorry, I'm just not understanding why.

 

[CatsNbirds]

I will be back to answer your questions in a bit. I am experiencing some health issues right now. Sorry.

No worries and . I just appreciate all your help! I hope all turns out well. I am very sorry for your health issues . Of course, I hope you feel better soon.

I've also heard of jesses used for corvids. I think the anklets are just the part around the ankle, jesses are the part extending from the anklet. Anklets are semi permanent (usually replaced yearly or so) since they require restraint to put on and must be cut to be removed.
Traditionally the anklet and jess would be one piece, but it is now more common for the jesses to be a separate piece, for safety reasons (larger jesses with holes when a bird is going to be leashed, smaller jesses swapped in when a bird is going to fly outside, so the jesses are less likely to get caught on something).
I would think for a crow, you might be ok not using jesses at all in the house/aviary and just putting them on to be able to leash your bird to take it outside. Raptors need jesses so the falconer can keep their feet under control somewhat - you wouldn't want a raptor deciding to perch somewhere other than the glove. I don't think a crow would have that kind of grip.

The Modern Apprentice - Jesses

I am glad that some else, has heard of jesses used on crows/ravens. I will admit that I found it to be a rather perplexing topic at first. I never knew there was a difference between anklets and jesses. Now, this leads me to another question (I am sure you are all tired of my questions), how and where does one buy the anklets? Maybe, a more important question is this: how does someone put them on ? Dare I even ask, how does someone cut the anklet off ?

Wow, I did not know there are different types of jesses. Thank you, for teaching me something. I just figured the leather ones "that are not used on a hawk" would suffice. I was (due to paranoia) going to keep the bird leashed, when not indoors or his aviary. But, the breeder said, that once I am bonded with the raven "I won't loose him". Plus, he told me that the few that have flown away, did return by morning and the ONLY reason they got spooked was the native crows/ravens. I am not sure I can handle that . The owner of the Corvid Ranch also said that he has heard of birds that where released (the owner died, and the family let the bird loose) for between six (6) and a year (12 months). When the owner of the Corvid Ranch was notified they birds few over to him, despite being "wild" and eating out of garbage dumps for the above mentioned time period. I guess this is why he says they are "tough as nails".

Yes, I was told to NEVER have the jesses on inside. By inside I mean "his room"/rest of my home or his aviary. The owner of the Corvid Ranch said that was the "easiest way to kill the bird" (leaving the jesses on at the "wrong time"). So, I can assure everyone the jesses will NOT be on the bird when he is indoors or in his aviary. But, thank you very very much for confirming that for me.

I definitely agree the talons of a hawk/bird of prey are VASTLY different then a Corvid. Just thinking about it now, rather randomly I might add, I would think large macaws/cockatoo's have a much stronger grip. I could be very very wrong .

Very interesting to see those who are in favour of jesses on corvids. They have very little strength in their legs as they are incapable of carrying weighted objects, swinging upside down with their body weight on one foot, etc. as parrots can, yet a Jess is okay for a corvid yet horribly dangerous for a parrot who has significantly stronger hip/legs? Sorry, I'm just not understanding why.

I do not get it either . I am just really scared that I am going to hurt bird !

 

[Greycloud]

Most Corvids do not take off abruptly. They are hoppers so there is less chance of them injuring their leg. They are extremely smart birds and understand the purpose of the jesses. If you feel uncomfortable go with a harness. We used them too and they did very well with them.

 

[CatsNbirds]

Most Corvids do not take off abruptly. They are hoppers so there is less chance of them injuring their leg. They are extremely smart birds and understand the purpose of the jesses. If you feel uncomfortable go with a harness. We used them too and they did very well with them.

Thank you, so much for clearing that up. I do not feel better with the harness. I am just scared that I would hurt the Raven with the either "tool/control method". You know way more then me, you worked in a zoo with Corvids, so you are the professional. I will admit that I am surprised that they actually smart enough to know what the jesses are used for. So, might this be a fair analogy: just like a domestic dog (Canis lupus familiaris) knows a leash means they will "go for a walk" a Corvid can understand the same? If my analogy is proper that makes them amazingly intelligent.

 

[gibsongrrrl]

Don't know about jesses, but I have used an aviator harness on a crow and he did well with it.

 

[CatsNbirds]

Don't know about jesses, but I have used an aviator harness on a crow and he did well with it.

Wow, that is great to know. Thank you, so very very much for sharing that information with me. What size flight suite did you use? How old was the crow when you "started" using the flight suite on him? How long did it take him to use the flight suite ? Lastly, how long till he" got used to" the flight?

Do you happen to own or have owned a crow? Or, have worked "extensively" with Corvids? If so, I have another post in the "Softbill circle" that I would love you to "weigh in on". Anyway, here is the post: Does anyone here have any experience with Corvids? I will be getting a Corvus albicollis. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum .

Thank you very very much for your help and your time .

 

[karen256]

One thing with corvids is they don't really chew like parrots. A parrot would chew on a leather jess and either remove it, or damage it enough that it might start rubbing against the leg and cause irritation. Leather jesses are soft and have some give so they are much safer than the metal jesses sold for parrots.

As for getting an anklet, they are fairly easily made or there are some falconry supply places that sell them, if you could figure out what size you need. Vegetable tanned kangaroo leather is most commonly used as it's soft but also strong and non stretchy. You should be able to find many pictures and patterns for them, if you decide to use anklets. Basically, you use a leather strip with a slit cut in it and thread it through itself to make a loop around the bird's leg and the portion outside the loop usually has a rivet or grommet put in to help hold it on and to make it easy to thread a jess through.
And they are replaced when they start to get worn out or pick up grit that could rub against the leg. Anklets might last longer on a pet corvid.

But if your bird allows you to put on a harness, then that might be a better option.

 

[melissasparrots]

Ask the breeder how he does it. A falconer might have a different set up. I use Aylmeri jesses for my red tailed hawk. In Aylmeri jesses, the anklet is a separate piece from the jess. The anklet can take a couple different forms, the ones posted above just weave together and the jess goes through the grommet to keep it from falling apart. Often with large hawks, if you plan to keep the anklet on long term, then a more permanent one is put on.

However, I wonder if what they are using for corvids resembles a Traditional or one piece jess. I don't have much experience with those because they are illegal for falconers to use. Apparently they can be used for rehab birds though, but overall they have a higher tendency to get tangled up and cause problems. If the breeder uses an aylmeri type set up, you might be able to use something about the same size as used for a cooper's hawk or sharp shin depending on the size of your bird's tarsi. Mike's Falconry Supplies: High-Quality Falconry Equipment for Sale has supplies and you just specify the size of hawk. I make my own anklets and jesses from kangaroo leather since each bird has different sized legs. If they use aylmeri jesses, then the anklet stays on, and you can just put the jess part in or remove it whenever you want. Should be fairly simple with a corvid since you don't have to worry about the bird footing the daylights out of your free hand when you are messing with the jesses.

 

[CatsNbirds]

One thing with corvids is they don't really chew like parrots. A parrot would chew on a leather jess and either remove it, or damage it enough that it might start rubbing against the leg and cause irritation. Leather jesses are soft and have some give so they are much safer than the metal jesses sold for parrots.

As for getting an anklet, they are fairly easily made or there are some falconry supply places that sell them, if you could figure out what size you need. Vegetable tanned kangaroo leather is most commonly used as it's soft but also strong and non stretchy. You should be able to find many pictures and patterns for them, if you decide to use anklets. Basically, you use a leather strip with a slit cut in it and thread it through itself to make a loop around the bird's leg and the portion outside the loop usually has a rivet or grommet put in to help hold it on and to make it easy to thread a jess through.
And they are replaced when they start to get worn out or pick up grit that could rub against the leg. Anklets might last longer on a pet corvid.

But if your bird allows you to put on a harness, then that might be a better option.

Yes, I am very much looking forward to having a pet that does not chew . I loved my African Grey ( Psittacus erithacus) but she was way too destructive for my health. Grant you, I had tons of breeding birds of various species, but they where kept confined. Glad to hear the leather jesses are safer .

I have NO idea, if I can figure out the size. I will try or "copy" the one that "comes with" my White-napped Raven (Corvus albicollis). I am guessing tanned kangaroo hide isn't available on eBay . Can you recommend a site/distributor? So, if I am understanding you properly (I am not sure I am , please keep that in mind) the Raven might just need the jesses? I am thinking that if the bird would let me use a harness him that would be easier. But, from the few people I have "talked to" on Youtube (one of them is a zoo/century) they say Corvids and harness do not mix. But, I will give it a try .

Thank you, so much for your time and teaching me. I have owned lots of birds (manly as breeders), many "exotic" small mammals (again, manly as breeders), and exotic hybrid cats (pets) and pure DSH's. I feel clueless on this "journey" .

Ask the breeder how he does it. A falconer might have a different set up. I use Aylmeri jesses for my red tailed hawk. In Aylmeri jesses, the anklet is a separate piece from the jess. The anklet can take a couple different forms, the ones posted above just weave together and the jess goes through the grommet to keep it from falling apart. Often with large hawks, if you plan to keep the anklet on long term, then a more permanent one is put on.

However, I wonder if what they are using for corvids resembles a Traditional or one piece jess. I don't have much experience with those because they are illegal for falconers to use. Apparently they can be used for rehab birds though, but overall they have a higher tendency to get tangled up and cause problems. If the breeder uses an aylmeri type set up, you might be able to use something about the same size as used for a cooper's hawk or sharp shin depending on the size of your bird's tarsi. Mike's Falconry Supplies: High-Quality Falconry Equipment for Sale has supplies and you just specify the size of hawk. I make my own anklets and jesses from kangaroo leather since each bird has different sized legs. If they use aylmeri jesses, then the anklet stays on, and you can just put the jess part in or remove it whenever you want. Should be fairly simple with a corvid since you don't have to worry about the bird footing the daylights out of your free hand when you are messing with the jesses.

I did put in an e-mail to him. I am pretty sure that he "thinks" I am nuts. At this point, I am nuts with worry over doing something wrong to my pet (that hasn't even arrived yet mind you ) . As we have discussed all the animals I have owned for breeding purposes. He keeps saying this will be a "piece of cake" regarding diet and health health care. He said you just need to "entertain him" a lot.

Let me start of by saying I know nothing about falcons/eagles and or the "art/sport" of falconry. I am completely in awe of it though. Do you have any idea's why those type of jesses would get caught up on a bird of prey and not a Corvid? Wow, it sounds much hard to restrain a hawk or a falcon ! I had NO IDEA it was so difficult. Makes perfect sense mind you, I am just too dumb to think of it .

Thank you, very very much for the link. I can hopefully buy some "pre maid" jesses. Yes, it is great the jesses on my Corvid are for restraint purposes. Not to keep my hand/arm/body safe or for "general safety purposes"!

 

[gibsongrrrl]

Wow, that is great to know. Thank you, so very very much for sharing that information with me. What size flight suite did you use? How old was the crow when you "started" using the flight suite on him? How long did it take him to use the flight suite ? Lastly, how long till he" got used to" the flight?

Do you happen to own or have owned a crow? Or, have worked "extensively" with Corvids? If so, I have another post in the "Softbill circle" that I would love you to "weigh in on". Anyway, here is the post: Does anyone here have any experience with Corvids? I will be getting a Corvus albicollis. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum .

Thank you very very much for your help and your time .

I will have to double check on the size of the flight suit and get back to you on that. It's been a couple years and I just can't remember. When I first started, he was a little suspicious, but let me put it on him the first day without too much fuss. We decided to do this a bit last minute to be able to include him in an event the Dr. that owned him was going to be at, for educational purposes, and he did really well. He was fine with it after about a week of daily sessions wearing it. He didn't ever really pick at it too much, which was my main concern, and would sit on his java tree stand wearing it and eating mealworms

I haven't owned one or had too much experience with them, I just took care of this crow for a few weeks when he was relinquished to the avian clinic I worked. He was the cutest little guy and would fly onto my head and beg for worms He was still young but too imprinted on people to be released so the Avian vet I worked for built him a large outdoor aviary and kept him. I will go check the other thread out though, and see if there is anything I could be of help with. I can't wait to see pics of your Raven. They are such cool birds. I'm assuming they are quite messy like crows are. I know our guy loved to cache food, regurgitate it and eat it again, and pooped everywhere. If it weren't for that I would love to have one myself

 

[CatsNbirds]

I will have to double check on the size of the flight suit and get back to you on that. It's been a couple years and I just can't remember. When I first started, he was a little suspicious, but let me put it on him the first day without too much fuss. We decided to do this a bit last minute to be able to include him in an event the Dr. that owned him was going to be at, for educational purposes, and he did really well. He was fine with it after about a week of daily sessions wearing it. He didn't ever really pick at it too much, which was my main concern, and would sit on his java tree stand wearing it and eating mealworms

I haven't owned one or had too much experience with them, I just took care of this crow for a few weeks when he was relinquished to the avian clinic I worked. He was the cutest little guy and would fly onto my head and beg for worms He was still young but too imprinted on people to be released so the Avian vet I worked for built him a large outdoor aviary and kept him. I will go check the other thread out though, and see if there is anything I could be of help with. I can't wait to see pics of your Raven. They are such cool birds. I'm assuming they are quite messy like crows are. I know our guy loved to cache food, regurgitate it and eat it again, and pooped everywhere. If it weren't for that I would love to have one myself

Please do not worry about the flight suite info. I was just curious. Please do not go out of your way looking for the info. That is great to know that a crow can have such "flexible behavior" patten. Plus, it is great to know with "proper training" that Corvids accept "change" so well . I have been told Corvids in general are very food motivated. The new flight suite with little preparation but "good food" yields calm happy bird in mind "proves" most Corvids are "food motivated".

What did you feed the little crow at your work? I am guessing he was an American Crow ( Corvus brachyrhynchos)? It was awesome the vet kept him since he could not be released. I am sure he/she his outdoor aviary. I will be giving my White-Necked Raven his "own room" (not sure what to put in it, other then easy cleaning items ). Plus an outdoor aviary. Thank you, very very much for looking at the other thread. I agree they are cool birds. Yes, they are very messy. Think GIANT Greater Indian Hill Mynah (Gracula religiosa intermedia) or GIANT Lori/Lorikeet (Trichoglossus sp) without such" watery/projectively" waste products. I am not at all worried about the caching. I think it is kinda "cute" to be honest. I did not know they regurgitated food and then ate it again . Thank you, for teaching me that.

 

[gibsongrrrl]

Please do not worry about the flight suite info. I was just curious. Please do not go out of your way looking for the info. That is great to know that a crow can have such "flexible behavior" patten. Plus, it is great to know with "proper training" that Corvids accept "change" so well . I have been told Corvids in general are very food motivated. The new flight suite with little preparation but "good food" yields calm happy bird in mind "proves" most Corvids are "food motivated".

What did you feed the little crow at your work? I am guessing he was an American Crow ( Corvus brachyrhynchos)? It was awesome the vet kept him since he could not be released. I am sure he/she his outdoor aviary. I will be giving my White-Necked Raven his "own room" (not sure what to put in it, other then easy cleaning items ). Plus an outdoor aviary. Thank you, very very much for looking at the other thread. I agree they are cool birds. Yes, they are very messy. Think GIANT Greater Indian Hill Mynah (Gracula religiosa intermedia) or GIANT Lori/Lorikeet (Trichoglossus sp) without such" watery/projectively" waste products. I am not at all worried about the caching. I think it is kinda "cute" to be honest. I did not know they regurgitated food and then ate it again . Thank you, for teaching me that.

Yes, he was an american crow. Cute little guy and so smart. From the best I can remember, we fed him some sort of large brown pellets that we soaked in hot water for him. I can't remember what kind they were offhand, but I will ask the vet the next time I speak with him. Something for omnivores. I believe they were the same ones we used for our box turtles there, but when I googled I couldn't find any that looked the same. Aside from those he also got a veggies such as peas and corn, grapes, fish that we thawed out and cut up for him, and meal worms. I don't recall giving him cat food, but he may have gotten that when he was older. here's a pic of him

 

[CatsNbirds]

Yes, he was an american crow.

He is such a handsome "young man" . BTW, I wish that I was HALF as pretty as you !

Cute little guy and so smart.

I definitely agree with the first part and I am sure about the second part .

From the best I can remember, we fed him some sort of large brown pellets that we soaked in hot water for him. I can't remember what kind they were offhand, but I will ask the vet the next time I speak with him.

Could this possibly be it ZuPreem - Low-Iron Softbill Diet ? Thank you, very very very very much for doing that for me. I can't wait to hear what the veterinarian was/is feeding him.

Something for omnivores.

Is this it: ZuPreem - Omnivore Diet Dry ? I am thinking now, those might have been the "large brown pellets" .

I believe they were the same ones we used for our box turtles there, but when I googled I couldn't find any that looked the same.

These are the only commercial dry foods I can find for Terrapene carolina ("Common" Box Turtle): Natural Box Turtle Food , Turtle l Aquatic Food l Aquatic Turtle Diet l Fluker's Aquatic Turtle Food , and T-Rex Box Turtle Dry Formula - Turtle Food Available Online from petco.com . Do any of these look familiar?

Aside from those he also got a veggies such as peas and corn, grapes, fish that we thawed out and cut up for him, and meal worms.

Cool cool. Thank you, so very much for sharing his diet with me. Could you ask the vet if he is concerned about the possibility of hemochromatosis or "Iron Storage Disease"? If he isn't worried could you ask why? If he is worried, can you ask what he won't feed his Corvus brachyrhynchos (American Crow)? Thank you again from the bottom of my !

I don't recall giving him cat food, but he may have gotten that when he was older.

Could I bother you to ask the veterinarian if he feeds his Corvus brachyrhynchos (American Crow) cat or dog food? If both/either, can you ask what brands he recommends? Thank you so so so so so so much !

@gibsongrrrl