Information requested on Balsa

[lotus15]

This is the standard we use: We don't sell balsa products because it is imported by licensed importers. It is our understanding through customs that they must accompany all imported woods with a "certificate of fumigation". Therefore, in our opinion, that renders it useless for exotics.

So... all foreign woods?? What about woods like Java wood and such? I know java wood is always imported as well...

 

[jmfleish]

Bummer...balsa wood is popular with birds although I don't use it anymore either, mostly because it's hard to get a hold of.

 

[calibird]

Thank you

Kudos to you Anne!
I hope other companies follow suit.
Good for you.

 

[Deejo]

Wow!
Can't believe the response to a phone call I just placed.
I won't name the company - it's a very large company - they have supplied balsa to the pet trade industry for decades.

Angry??? OMG - they were LIVID with my questions.
When I asked what chemicals are used to fumigate balsa wood entering the US, he said: "I have no idea". He then said balsa from his company is safe for parrots!
His words:
"Balsa coming into the US has to be fumigated by law. But the chemicals used are safe for birds." I asked him how he knew that for sure?
His reply: "We don't. Just do us a favor and don't buy from us if you have doubts."

He went off on me about stupid rumors, and how pets have been fine for decades with their imported balsa.

So...again, this is an excellent example of why
we, as consumers, must do the foot work ourselves.
A supplier may tell his clients something is safe - when in fact, they have no idea!!
This was a bit shocking to me....a supplier to the pet trade, selling a product that is potentially harmful for our birds. And they don't care!!!!

Our trusted toy makers do all they can to ensure the safety of our parrots - they rely on what they are told by their suppliers.
In this case, with this very large company....they feed lies to their clients and we buy something that may or may not, be safe.

When it comes to my birds, I don't care that I just spent 15 minutes with the most rude and arrogant person - learning what is ok for my parrots is vital.
Let's see more toys made of yucca!!!

 

[Deejo]

Therefore, in our opinion, that renders it useless for exotics.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Barbi.
We will most definately stick with yucca wood from you, from now on.
I am so pleased to know that you were on top of this all along.

 

[lotus15]

Wow, Doris, that is really infuriating. And very sad. What a shame.

 

[dorn27]

Oh jeez. I have several bags of balsa right now that I got from a parrot toy vendor. I'm really afraid to give it to the girls.

I think I'll box it up for right now, until we hear more. My current stock came from Fowl Play, since I was ordering sulfur free papaya and jumbo sunflower seeds.

 

[Deejo]

Wow, Doris, that is really infuriating. And very sad. What a shame.

Stuff like this makes my blood boil (guess that's obvious!).

On top of that, I am feeling horribly guilty that I didn't take these same actions years ago, and call the place I just called. One phone call is all it took to convince me that there's no such thing as safe balsa.
How do we know if a substance or chemical builds up in the body for years, with no signs of the potential damage it might be causing?

I should have been taken a much more pro-active role years ago. Our birds have been getting balsa for 7-8 years now.

Poor little Rosita watched as I removed her Yo-Man toy. My hope is that Rosie Toys will create the exact same toy design, using pine.

 

[Deejo]

Oh jeez. I have several bags of balsa right now that I got from a parrot toy vendor. I'm really afraid to give it to the girls.

I think I'll box it up for right now, until we hear more. My current stock came from Fowl Play, since I was ordering sulfur free papaya and jumbo sunflower seeds.

The beautiful & well crafted balsa toys we got yesterday are now in the trash.
Personally, my birds are far too important to me to take any chances.

 

[jamie]

Folks ... let's take just a minute to think rationally.

1. Do any of you have conclusive proof that there are any chemical residues in the basla wood used for parrot toys?

2. Do any of you have conclusive proof that any parrot (or other exotic animal) has been harmed by a balsa wood toy?

The reply from the supplier Doris uses seems perfectly reasonable to me. He's been supplying balsa wood to the pet trade for decades with no known harmful effects- so quite possibly that's safe- in spite of being fumigated when it's imported. He's basing his opinion on anecdotal evidence, but I've not seen anything conclusive that proves him to be wrong.

I know that everyone wants to protect their birds, but sometimes everyone needs to take a moment to think rationally about things.

 

[lotus15]

For me, it doesn't matter if nothing has happened yet or there is no conclusive evidence. My goal is always to try to replicate their lifestyles in the wild as much as possible when it comes to food, toys, perches, and activity. And chemicals, fumigation, preservatives, etc. are certainly not a part of that. With chemicals and preservatives especially these are things that would have long term repercussions-- we wouldn't see a bird turn over and die from chewing balsa once, as is obvious from the experiences of so many people on this forum. But like preservatives and artificial colors/flavors, chemicals tend to build up inside the bodies of parrots and can cause long term damage. For me, even if there is a suspicion or doubt about the safety of the chemicals used in balsa, I will not use it. There are easily accessible alternatives that are chemical-free, so it's no sweat off of my back.

 

[jamie]

For me, it doesn't matter if nothing has happened yet or there is no conclusive evidence. My goal is always to try to replicate their lifestyles in the wild as much as possible when it comes to food, toys, perches, and activity. And chemicals, fumigation, preservatives, etc. are certainly not a part of that. With chemicals and preservatives especially these are things that would have long term repercussions-- we wouldn't see a bird turn over and die from chewing balsa once, as is obvious from the experiences of so many people on this forum. But like preservatives and artificial colors/flavors, chemicals tend to build up inside the bodies of parrots and can cause long term damage. For me, even if there is a suspicion or doubt about the safety of the chemicals used in balsa, I will not use it. There are easily accessible alternatives that are chemical-free, so it's no sweat off of my back.

That's a perfectly respectable approach to take, but I just don't like to see people passing off supposition and baseless opinions as facts... unfortunately that happens way too often on many topics. There may possibly be some issue and there's likely the same probability that there is not. I am just trying to ease some of the hysteria that's erupted on this topic.

 

[Deejo]

Folks ... let's take just a minute to think rationally.

1. Do any of you have conclusive proof that there are any chemical residues in the basla wood used for parrot toys?

2. Do any of you have conclusive proof that any parrot (or other exotic animal) has been harmed by a balsa wood toy?

The reply from the supplier Doris uses seems perfectly reasonable to me. He's been supplying balsa wood to the pet trade for decades with no known harmful effects- so quite possibly that's safe- in spite of being fumigated when it's imported. He's basing his opinion on anecdotal evidence, but I've not seen anything conclusive that proves him to be wrong.

I know that everyone wants to protect their birds, but sometimes everyone needs to take a moment to think rationally about things.

Good advice....for the record and with all due respect...the company is not a supplier of mine (we don't make toys, we buy ready-made toys for our pet birds)
I decided to call one of the large companies randomly, since if anyone knows, they *should*.
Oh, and this man was not being reasonable, he was being confrontational. That also bothered me. It appeared mine was very likely the first call they've had about this, and his "back was up" because he could not provide the answers to my questions.

You are correct of course - there may be no evidence anywhere of balsa being harmful to exotic birds.
However, my own rational thinking does come into play with this whole discussion....
A large supplier can't tell me the name of the chemicals used to fumigate balsa.
That statement alone send red flags.

Not trying to be argumentative with you; I sincerely appreciate what you've said. My own personal opinion is that I am not sure if imported balsa is safe for my parrots.
I thank Saroj for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Nikki]

For me, it doesn't matter if nothing has happened yet or there is no conclusive evidence. My goal is always to try to replicate their lifestyles in the wild as much as possible when it comes to food, toys, perches, and activity. And chemicals, fumigation, preservatives, etc. are certainly not a part of that. With chemicals and preservatives especially these are things that would have long term repercussions-- we wouldn't see a bird turn over and die from chewing balsa once, as is obvious from the experiences of so many people on this forum. But like preservatives and artificial colors/flavors, chemicals tend to build up inside the bodies of parrots and can cause long term damage. For me, even if there is a suspicion or doubt about the safety of the chemicals used in balsa, I will not use it. There are easily accessible alternatives that are chemical-free, so it's no sweat off of my back.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there certainly are chemicals in the wild that birds are ingesting and perching on everyday... from fertilizers to bug sprays. You should see what they spray around the lakes here for mosquitoes.

 

[jamie]

Good advice....for the record and with all due respect...the company is not a supplier of mine (we don't make toys, we buy ready-made toys for our pet birds)
I decided to call one of the large companies randomly, since if anyone knows, they *should*.
Oh, and this man was not being reasonable, he was being confrontational. That also bothered me. It appeared mine was very likely the first call they've had about this, and his "back was up" because he could not provide the answers to my questions.

You are correct of course - there may be no evidence anywhere of balsa being harmful to exotic birds.
However, my own rational thinking does come into play with this whole discussion....
A large supplier can't tell me the name of the chemicals used to fumigate balsa.
That statement alone send red flags.

Not trying to be argumentative with you; I sincerely appreciate what you've said. My own personal opinion is that I am not sure if imported balsa is safe for my parrots.
I thank Saroj for bringing this to my attention.

It would not be surprised at him not knowing ... it's possibly something he's never asked or thought about- since it happens automatically and it's required.
A better alternative might be to start asking the customs folks or scanning the USDA (or equivalent agency in other countries) about fumigation of natural products for importation.

 

[Sharpie]

I will continue to use balsa in my house. For me, the complete lack of any (even anecdotal) reports of it causing any harm or illness in the decades of use in the pet bird industry puts it firmly in the GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) category in my mind. Now, things like toilets and water, on the other hand, which we know have killed more than one bird, everyone continues to use in their home on a daily basis, what's up with that? Yes, I am being a little tongue in cheek, but I agree with Jamie. I think this is much ado about nothing, risk-wise, and there are far greater real risks that are more worthy of the worry and energy that balsa's getting right now.

 

[lotus15]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there certainly are chemicals in the wild that birds are ingesting and perching on everyday... from fertilizers to bug sprays. You should see what they spray around the lakes here for mosquitoes.

What I meant by "in the wild" was more like in their natural environments/habitats that nature would provide, untouched by humans. I understand that this hardly exists anymore, but then again, so do many parrot populations. Before we came along with all of our pesticides and fertilizers and chemicals, parrots thrived. Since, many populations have become severely endangered. Obviously for more reasons than just chemicals (deforestation is probably the biggest), but what I am saying is, I would like for them to have a "natural" environment as much as possible, as opposed to a chemical-filled one.

 

[Barbi]

It's hard to say about java and some other imported woods, we just believe in our heart of hearts that craft stores and some of the bigger bird suppliers purchase their products from licensed importers and that's how they get those big profits ...We absolutely insist on "100% chemical free" for all of our woods and will NOT cross that boundary that PPBN has always held. Those same companies sell yucca and cholla that is bleached...that is how theirs is always pure white or at the very least all one color, and ours is not...please believe me it does NOT come from Nature that way. We turned down our biggest contract of all time because we REFUSED to bleach our cholla & yucca or fumigate before we exported! We're not required to be "licensed" exporters, so when we send woods internationally we do NOT fumigate. I can't speak for those that import java and such into the US. They may or may not be licensed. If they are NOT a small time operation like us, a fumigation certificate is required...according to US and most other countries' customs. Because we deal in woods, we have learned in the last 6 or 7 years how incredibly hard it is to get straight answers: if in doubt, it's out: that's our philosophy anyway. We know every tree and every plant that our woods come from and we know we are 150 miles from any major cities or enviornmental pollutants. The only way our woods could be any more "safe" is if we lived on a deserted island.
We pay twice the price to purchase organic fruits and vegetables for not only ourselves, but our little miss Krickett too...as well as the new organic foods and treats we have started getting from Doris. We're just not going to be taking chances with our health or hers, life is too short and studies seem to take forever. There are enough chemicals we are all exposed to without multiplying that with "known" chemical additives. Like I said, if in doubt, it's out!
More yucca coming right up...we promise
Okay, off my soapbox now.

 

[lotus15]

Like I said, if in doubt, it's out!

Thank you, Barbi. I completely agree 100% and am so glad to know that there are suppliers out there who do as well. I have the same philosophy: for wood/toys/perches, as well as for organic foods. My guys get a 100% organic diet, nothing less.

 

[birdlady]

I had purchased four balsa toys from Rosie...Kiwi and Dozer love them. they are not much of chewers but really went at these toys. I will remove them until I hear otherwise.