• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Entertaining a dog in standing heat

Sparkles99

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
6,501
Location
Ontario, Canada
Ruby is 9 months old now & is growing up. The cytology they did mid-October made the vets think she'd had a silent heat around then. Unfortunately, it looks like it was more of a very long one or possibly a split heat. Regardless, she's in standing heat right now. In retrospect, I definitely noticed bleeding by November 20 (thought it was a UTI & got concerned). It has started to wane & much of it is now clear-ish as of today. She has the anatomical changes too - trying to be sensitive to the word censor & young minors here.

The issue: I live in an apartment. I don't have access to a private, fenced backyard without a male dog around. Normally, I'd visit a relative's small, fenced yard or my parents' large, unfenced one with an 8 m flexi lead. Or we'd visit the park when big dogs weren't around. And we'd take walks.

Apparently, even neutered male dogs are driven mad by females at this time & all of them climb fences (argh!). Added to this, there's a neighbour who's always taken an over interest in Ruby's growth & development who has an intact male dog around her size & has said disturbing things like, "Let nature take its course." or "Well, she's not rejecting him!" when she was barely 7 months old. Of course she wasn't. She's a friendly, well socialized dog & is an animal. She's also 9 months old & is a pet.

I'm not interested in becoming a backyard breeder, introducing unwanted lives or ruining my dog with a pregnancy before she's done growing (or in general). I hope to eventually do some competitions, like the Canine Good Neighbour test & possibly more, once we get the basics down pat.

Meanwhile, my quiet sheltie (yes, this is possible, I have/had one) is becoming increasingly frustrated & barky. She didn't even used to bark when someone knocked on the door, because I taught her not to from day one. So, I also am concerned about this habit developing & becoming ingrained post-heat. She's under-exercised now. I bought a passel of edible chews that help somewhat & have been focusing on obedience exercises.

What would you suggest? I 100% don't want her pregnant. I've also heard that barking's a hard habit to break, once it's ingrained. She's been in jail since Sunday. I walk her for potty runs on a 5' leash. It's less than a week. Her cycle seems long (at least 14 days of bleeding). So, I'm looking at probably another month. But I've also read that it's incredibly dangerous (for her & for other dogs suddenly fighting) to walk a female in this condition. Any ideas?

The vet techs put the fear of God in me. They said male dogs, neutered or not, would hunt her down & that the "thirst" is real. She was flirting with another dog at the vet. She'd totally do the imprudent thing, given half a chance. Please help!

Thanks so much!

And, please, no you should've done a pediatric neuter talk. I'd like constructive ideas on handling this. I've read the literature about growth plates, orthopaedic injuries later, etc. & the anecdotal evidence from behaviourists about dogs, in particular, retaining baby behaviours in adulthood. This will be one & done. We just need to get through it.

@Love My Zons @Toy @Aviphile @Pixiebeak @Peachfaced @Sparkles!
 

Mizzely

Lil Monsters Bird Toys
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
8/9/11
Messages
40,286
Location
Northern Mitten Michigan
Real Name
Shawna [she/her]
How are you currently feeding her? I end up doing a lot of frozen Kongs and Kong Wobbler feeding this time of year because my sidewalks are so slick in my neighborhood. It certainly helps!

For the Kong, you can do a mix of kibble and canned food, but you can also soak kibble and then stuff it into the Kong or similar and freeze for her entire meal or part of the meal. I have Kong, SodaPup, and WestPaw brand feeders to keep it interesting!

Kong Wobbler you fill with dry kibble and they have to paw it to get it out. There are a few others too but the wobbler is so much easier to clean than most of the others.

Snuffle mats are another option.

Sorry if this is something you already do, forgive me!
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
26,132
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
Don't most people have their dogs on a leash in public areas?

I never used to have any trouble walking my kelpie or my ridgeback x when they were in heat as everyone else's dogs were on a leash, my ridgeback x was a horrid flirt who was a handful for me as she was so busy trying to get to the boys but my kelpie never did anything without approval so she was no hassles.

I have seen some people make their dogs wear nappies so they can still go on walks- I personally do not like seeing nappies on dogs but I guess if it means they are safe from pregnancy and it is only for a short time it is not so bad.
 

flyzipper

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
9/28/20
Messages
2,605
Location
Canada
Real Name
Steve
What would you suggest? I 100% don't want her pregnant.
And, please, no you should've done a pediatric neuter talk.
I'd like to understand the counterpoint here since I've always had my cats and dogs "fixed"... why not in Ruby's case?

It sounds like you have reasons and I'm curious to hear a different perspective.
 

AussieBird

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
7/23/20
Messages
4,731
Real Name
Call me AB
I'd like to understand the counterpoint here since I've always had my cats and dogs "fixed"... why not in Ruby's case?

It sounds like you have reasons and I'm curious to hear a different perspective.
And, please, no you should've done a pediatric neuter talk. I'd like constructive ideas on handling this. I've read the literature about growth plates, orthopaedic injuries later, etc. & the anecdotal evidence from behaviourists about dogs, in particular, retaining baby behaviours in adulthood. This will be one & done. We just need to get through it.
Sparkles correct me if I am wrong but are you waiting to Spay till after she's been on heat?
 

Mizzely

Lil Monsters Bird Toys
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
8/9/11
Messages
40,286
Location
Northern Mitten Michigan
Real Name
Shawna [she/her]
My mom's breeder and vet also suggested waiting until after the first heat to spay. :shrug:

ETA: large dog breeds some sources I've seen say wait until at least 2 years. Tbh I haven't looked into it.
 

AussieBird

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
7/23/20
Messages
4,731
Real Name
Call me AB
My mom's breeder and vet also suggested waiting until after the first heat to spay. :shrug:

ETA: large dog breeds some sources I've seen say wait until at least 2 years. Tbh I haven't looked into it.
Yes, I've heard about it being done like that before so I wanted to clarify. I've never looked into to it either, my dog was only spayed this year at 9 years old.
 

Peachfaced

The Peachy Inkpress
JOLLY-PATROLLY
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
11/17/09
Messages
11,783
Location
FL
Real Name
Sadie
I think your best solution is the nappies for the time being. The whole reason we wound up with my border collie, was because her Mom was about 7 months old, and got pregnant before they could spay her. As annoying as a nappy would be, it certainly beats the alternative of having to coop her up so badly.
 

flyzipper

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
9/28/20
Messages
2,605
Location
Canada
Real Name
Steve
My mom's breeder and vet also suggested waiting until after the first heat to spay.
That's why I'm curious -- my only dogs have been retired racing greyhounds and they're well past their first heat by the time they're up for adoption.

I hope I didn't derail the OP, but now I've got a mini research project for the weekend so thanks for the indulgence of my brief tangent.
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
26,132
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
That's why I'm curious -- my only dogs have been retired racing greyhounds and they're well past their first heat by the time they're up for adoption.

I hope I didn't derail the OP, but now I've got a mini research project for the weekend so thanks for the indulgence of my brief tangent.
They say it is better for dogs health to mature a bit before being spayed as the hormones are altered/diminished once spayed and hormones are part of the growing and maturing process is basically how my vet explained it to my daughter when I told my vet I did not want my last dog spayed before she had matured.
 

Shannan

Rollerblading along the road
Mayor of the Avenue
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
7/27/21
Messages
1,095
Real Name
Shannan
Could you also take her out in places where there is unlikely to be other dogs and if there are, they are leashed. I used to take mine to walk on a college campus. Sometimes you can find a tennis court or other sports area that is fenced so you could get in a small game of fetch without worry about being accosted. Maybe there is a store that you could take her to like a hardware or feed store for a little outing. We also quite often go the the state or national park since they are pretty strict about leash rules. (my dog is terrified of other dogs, so we try to avoid places with lots of dogs) I like the nappys idea too
 

Pixiebeak

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
6/18/22
Messages
7,749
Location
USA
Real Name
Laura
Ok some people wait to spay till a year or so because their can be an effect on the femal parts. Early spay can lead in some few females to a tinkle problem. They leak urine prone to dribbles. It's not a common complications but ive seen it .

Once a female is in an active heat cycle you shouldn't spay until after it's finished. At least this has been as I've known. And my vet wouldn't spay my girl in or near heat.

I kept my female intact, as I wanted to breed her. I didn't have trouble with neighborhood dogs when walking her in active heat or even standing heat. The neighborhood dogs are fenced or walked on leashes. Most all neighborhood dogs are neutered in my hood. One a few houses down is not. This was my experience, and I do not know if that's a typical experience or not? I also let in her out in my secure fenced yard but stayed outside in yard with her just to be sure , when she was in heat.

I bred her once and kept one pup. But she is a tiny female and it was just to hard on her to maintain weight while nursing and I did everything and consulting with my veterinarian for her health during pregnancy and with her pups. So I elected to never breed her again.

Anyway. Most behavior with dogs is helped a lot by exercise. And if you are experiencing behavior issues that you feel are directly linked to limiting her. Then get creative in exercise. Lowes and home depot allow well behaved dogs on leashes in my town.
Set up obstacle course in your home it will mostly be a mental exercise but that burns energy. Teach her to weave, go through a little tunnel, jump through a Hulu hoop. Retrieve hidden toys. Go through all your basic training tricks.

Or walk her with another person for safty . Carry a walking stick, a horn or personal alarm. If you think that will be safe and making you more comfortable. Definitely choose areas with less dogs. We have some nice old rich neighborhoods i drive to walk my dogs they are so peaceful and I never see other dogs.
 

Peachfaced

The Peachy Inkpress
JOLLY-PATROLLY
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
11/17/09
Messages
11,783
Location
FL
Real Name
Sadie
Obstacle courses and tricks are fabulous. They love the mental exercise as much as the physical.
 

Pixiebeak

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
6/18/22
Messages
7,749
Location
USA
Real Name
Laura
Oh went back and read those that posted while I was typing.
Yes o put clothes on her when walk in heat just as added precautions. They make ones with velcro like underwear for dogs. I also bought baby one z . Which worked so great, but my girl is only 6 pounds

But I too was really more worried about starting a dog fighting. Especially as I had my intact male walking with us. But mine and the few we saw out walking with their people all behaved fine. Tho I made sure we kept our distance.
 

Sparkles99

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
6,501
Location
Ontario, Canada
Mizzely, that's a great suggestion! I have Kongs & some puzzle toys, but tend to use them for treats. I'll have to look into wobblers. I've never heard of them.

Shezbug, I live 450 m from an off leash, unfenced dog field, so I'm worried even if my pup is on leash.

flyzipper, if the spay/castration is done before maturity, these things may happen. I added a bracket for one specific to cats. The rest is dogs.
  • Females: incontinence ~5-7+ years old; UTIs (cats).
  • Males: nothing specific I've heard of...
  • Both: extra growth of long bones leading to ligament & tendon injuries later (bones don't know when to stop growing); bone cancer; some puppy like behaviours retained into old age, according to some behaviourists = harder to train.
Conversely, if done too late, other kinds of cancer risks increase. For example, after two heats, a female dog's risk of mammary cancer is ~25%. There's increasing evidence that pediatric spay/neuter isn't ideal, though sometimes necessary, especially around here with cat rescue. You seem to like biology, so may enjoy exploring this. There are also breed specific considerations based on what they're prone to.

The basic rule is the larger the dog, the later the surgery. Ruby's just shy of 12 pounds. This means that she'll be good to go three months after the peak of this heat, so she's booked in for early March. She'll be just over a year old.

Peachfaced, she hates the nappies with a passion. I also heard from my obedience instructor that some dogs can somehow get around them, so they're more of a delay tactic. :sour:

Shannon, stores are a great idea too! If any dog tried anything, there'd also be people there to help with the dog (I'd pick Ruby up!). The vet techs told me if I see another dog, pick mine up. I heard the one on the last potty run tonight before I saw him. He's a dogo Argentino who lives across the way with his chihuahua buddy. He was interested. I scooped her up. His bark was different (I didn't recognize him by it) & even his walk seemed different. I swear he was strutting as his owner made him go indoors.

Pixiebeak, I like the obstacle course idea!

I guess I read some old threads on this forum & began to wonder how any female dogs ever exercised. I had tried to do a search on how to do it safely & that's what I came up with. It seemed like cooping them up was presented as the only way to not breach dog owner etiquette & you were an awful person if yours so much as peered out the front door. I also didn't want to cause dog fights.


 

Mizzely

Lil Monsters Bird Toys
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
8/9/11
Messages
40,286
Location
Northern Mitten Michigan
Real Name
Shawna [she/her]
Here's the wobbler.

They have a large and small version. The bottom I think is filled with sand? All I know is it easy to clean without any type of "special" brushes etc, and can even go in the dishwasher.


I do not recommend the Starmark Bobs a Lot which is similar. You can't open it to clean it which weirds me out.
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
26,132
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
I am not sure if it is still used as I believe it was a tad controversial or maybe dangerous but I recall many of the farmers getting upset when some changes were made and they were having trouble getting the meds but there is a contraceptive medication for female dogs. I really know very little about it other than those with working dogs who were also breeding dogs can not afford to have a dog off work due to being in season so many of them used to use the meds similar to the pill for humans


Edited to add- the issue was a financial one, to do with tax or insurance or something no longer covering the expenses for the meds, it was not that the vet would not give them the meds.
 
Last edited:

flyzipper

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
9/28/20
Messages
2,605
Location
Canada
Real Name
Steve
Thanks for the background.
presented as the only way to not breach dog owner etiquette & you were an awful person if yours so much as peered out the front door.
I read the OP in the first link and that person sounds like a holdover from the sad girl-shaming attitude to me.

"Sorry girls, you can't wear that in class because the boys can't concentrate".

Edited to add: admittedly I haven't experienced or thought about the dog-in-heat issue until now, but that's my gut reaction.
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
26,132
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
Here's the wobbler.

They have a large and small version. The bottom I think is filled with sand? All I know is it easy to clean without any type of "special" brushes etc, and can even go in the dishwasher.


I do not recommend the Starmark Bobs a Lot which is similar. You can't open it to clean it which weirds me out.
Suzie loved hers- I am pretty sure my mum has put it somewhere "safe" so she no longer had to deal with it being knocked into her ankles lol All my dogs have loved that and frozen kongs, same with old lemonade or powerade bottles filled with bits and pieces and food.
 

Mizzely

Lil Monsters Bird Toys
Super Moderator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Cutest Bird Ever!!!
Joined
8/9/11
Messages
40,286
Location
Northern Mitten Michigan
Real Name
Shawna [she/her]
Suzie loved hers- I am pretty sure my mum has put it somewhere "safe" so she no longer had to deal with it being knocked into her ankles lol All my dogs have loved that and frozen kongs, same with old lemonade or powerade bottles filled with bits and pieces and food.
I've bought several different feeding toys, but the wobbler wins on so many levels! Best $20 I've spent
 
Top