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Cooper's Hawk, infiltrating Amigo's territory, husband wants to shoot it!

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Hankmacaw

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I am sorry meant to add, the most important thing my friend does-she feeds the hawks every day!
LOL- Those hawks are using the old Mafiosa insurance racket.

Do you happen to know what she feeds them?

ML
 

Mare

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I left a message for Chris Shank of Cockatoo Downs, I'll let you know what she says.
If I had been a member on a forum before starting this process with Amigo, I don't think it would have happened. I would have asked advice first and then be scared to even try.
The hawk that was chasing him seemed young, I say this only because if he wanted to kill Amigo, he probably could have, don't know for sure. Amigo does raise a fuss when hawks are near and that will normally deter the hawk. The red-tails don't even bother, anymore.
Things could go wrong in a heartbeat, I know this but I will stand by my decision to allow Amigo his freedom, I will also protect him as much as I can without having to cage him. We started an outdoor aviary, it is on hold for the moment, due to finances but the main reason for having one was so' Amigo could be taken care of while we vacationed.
 

AmberMuffinz

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I can understand Amigo's "happiness" for being a free-flying bird. But in the end his "happiness" may cost him his life and leave his owners' heartbroken. :(

I thought having a pet bird means keeping it safe from predators - just my opinion.

Not really. It is our responsibility to keep our pets safe but there is no line that everyone must follow between safety and happiness. Even though Amigo's life is possibly shortened by the way he lives, I think it is better for his mentality than being in a cage. Especially for a large 'too who are known to pluck and develop all kinds of issues. If I remember correctly Amigo was a plucker or at least was very unhappy in the way he was living before. He doesn't pluck, he seems well adjusted, always visits his people, and hasn't flown away. I would say he is a pretty happy bird from what I have seen and read here!

eta: If we are supposed to keep our birds 100% safe from danger we would not have any predator animals, would never risk taking them out in a harness, etc. We all take risks, just some are more extreme. Some members have dogs or cats and it is a balancing act but it can work. We should try our best to keep them safe but there is no rule on keeping birds and what you are and are not supposed to do.

Would you rather he live out his life, maybe shortened, in an environment he is obviously comfortable in and happy about or in a cage obviously distressed, possibly to the point of mutilation? Sure he may live longer inside a cage but quality of life does not equal quantity. The OP is doing what she thinks is best for her bird and it is working. Obviously dangers are going to come up but they are not just going to abandon Amigo and let him fend for his life, despite all the harsh remarks on this thread. Amigo's parronts love him and it is obvious.
 
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Nikki

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What I meant by exaggerated is that this hawk was hungry! It was being let out at the wrong time to be fed in an artificial environment. I don't disagree with you that this is the way they attack.
I put the video up so she could see how fast and hard they come down... you can hear the bird thump against her head. I don't think any too could stand up to that, especially with a hungry bird or a bird with hungry chicks she needs to feed.

I have to take the bird seed away when the hawks come or I have dead birds all other my backyard. A lot of times they will take them right up on the fence to eat them. I have seen a sharp shinned hawk chase birds through trees... I also seen one sit quietly on the fence by the feeders and drop straight down into a flock of doves. Hawks don't just hunt from high above, they're smart and will figure out ways to get what they want.

Hopefully Mare never has a great horned owl move in.
 

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I put the video up so she could see how fast and hard they come down... you can hear the bird thump against her head. I don't think any too could stand up to that, especially with a hungry bird or a bird with hungry chicks she needs to feed.

I have to take the bird seed away when the hawks come or I have dead birds all other my backyard. A lot of times they will take them right up on the fence to eat them. I have seen a sharp shinned hawk chase birds through trees... I also seen one sit quietly on the fence by the feeders and drop straight down into a flock of doves. Hawks don't just hunt from high above, they're smart and will figure out ways to get what they want.

Hopefully Mare never has a great horned owl move in.
Yes, they are good hunters and they could probably kill a U2 if they wanted to bother but remember that Amigo has been flying outside for a while and is probably a pretty good flyer now and is probably pretty loud too. We have to give him a little credit as well. I'm sure that Chris will get back to Mare and give her some good tips to keeping Amigo as safe as possible without having to take free flight totally away from him and hopefully this hawk will decide there's nothing to see and move on out...
 

brilywi

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I put the video up so she could see how fast and hard they come down... you can hear the bird thump against her head. I don't think any too could stand up to that, especially with a hungry bird or a bird with hungry chicks she needs to feed.
I just want to point out that the woman who got the brunt of the attack from that hawk was wearing a microphone; of course you would hear the thump against her head. Another thing that Jen also pointed out was that the hawk was unintentionally let out in an environment where it was expecting to get fed pretty quickly after being let out. If there is no food, he would be going to look for the food.

My two cents on the topic:
I've heard of (and met) a caique in my area that has been attacked by a hawk and managed to get away with minimal physical damage and survived to tell the tale (so to speak). This caique was not an adult nor was she meant to be out flying; she managed to get out in a freak accident and was missing for about a month. The owner had later spotted her bird being attacked and saw her get away and when she went to look for her bird she had no luck. A week passed and she was assumed to be dead after the attack, but as she was on her way out somewhere, her little baby girl came walking up her porch! She got her to the vet and all was well. Now, do I think there is no risk of a parrot being killed by a hawk? No. There is definitely a risk, but you also have to consider that if you have a free flying bird that has TONS of experience flying, then they at least have a heck of a lot better chance at survival against a hawk than this caique did. You also have to realize that Amigo is bigger than a caique and could do more damage to the hawk. From what Mare has posted about Amigo in this thread, it sounds like Amigo would be fighting the hawk and not sitting there doing nothing. Not saying that for sure that Amigo would win, but he does stand a fighting chance.

I also agree with what Jen (jmfleish) said about the psychological damage that could be done by bringing Amigo inside permanently again. Imagine if you were allowed to do whatever you wanted for the past two years and didn't have to worry about being bored or how to get places or what to eat. Then suddenly, you can't do anything you really want and you are confined to a closet sized space for the rest of your life. You would turn out depressed and angry. Mare did take a risk with Amigo but she also clearly understood the risks, but the positives from letting him fly outside had to outweigh the positives for letting him live indoors only. I don't know Amigo's whole story, but I believe that the choice to have a bird free flying outside is the choice of the owner and the bird and that in most cases, they are doing what is best for them.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that the air changes when a hawk is in the area. Most people don't notice, but if you have worked in an outdoor aviary (or have one of your own with smaller birds), you might notice this. There's an alarm call, then ALL of the smaller birds go silent and tense. It happened one morning at the zoo when I was counting birds, everyone went silent all of the sudden and cleared away from the top of the aviary and I ended up surrounded by quite a few tiels. I looked up a moment later to see a pissed off hawk seriously rattling the aviary cage and trying to break in to get a bird. I'm sure that from living outside for two years and being smart, Amigo has learned the alarm calls of the local birds and seen them all taking off or going into hiding.

One last thing I wanted to point out to those people suggesting an aviary set up: I don't think it would protect Amigo against a hawk as much as you think it would. We have had a hawk break a metal chain link in our aviary with one swift chomp of his beak. If any thing, if the hawk got in with Amigo, Amigo would be MORE likely to be killed as he wouldn't have a clear escape route and would essentially be in an enclosed area with a hawk.

Just my two cents. I agree with those who suggested bringing Amigo in for a bit to see if the hawk goes on his way. The hawk is probably visiting for a bit and if he runs out of prey options he'll move on.
 

Ziggymon

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I have seen hawks hunt in my own back yard and that is exactly what it looks like... I also have seen shows put on my falconers and seen how they swoop and grab prey out of the air.
Yup. I have seen a hawk take a full grown cat, and not a soft housecat either.

My experience with predators - they can and do take animals thought you wouldn't think possible, in circumstances you didn't anticipate would be possible.

I would find the armchair speculation about what predators can or will do pretty amusing if a life weren't at stake.
 

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Yes, we do love Amigo and we also love our Sassy Goffin's girl! She is such a joy, she lives in the house by the way, and she is a most happy and content bird. Amigo never was that, in the house. We tried with him, we really tried, to give him everything we thought he needed to be a content, happy, well-adjusted cockatoo. Maybe we didn't know enough to give him this. After being on the forum, for awhile now, I know that we did know enough but he just wasn't going for it! He needed more than what we could give him in our home environment.
 

magni

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when I went to Natural Encounters last year Steve Martin had the macaws flying free for training. We spotted some hawks and he said not to worry they ignore them. Also there are wild flocks out there with the hawks everyday so I don't think it is a problem. It is so exciting to see them fly free, I can't wait to go back to Natural Encounters
 

itzmered

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The two we had on our property for a couple of weeks were juveniles. Their parents were with them the first day and then they left them there. Must have decided it was a good place for the young ones to move out to :D They pretty much screamed off and on all day for several days. Then one left and it was just one lone one that hung around for about a week and half. I watched him dive bomb squirrels and knock them right out the trees but not get them.

I think Mare understands what she is doing and it may make some people extremely uncomfortable but it is a decision she has to make not us
 

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I really want to go next year, but Clicker Expo is the weekend before and I am going to Lara Joseph for training. I am hoping for 2014 though!

when I went to Natural Encounters last year Steve Martin had the macaws flying free for training. We spotted some hawks and he said not to worry they ignore them. Also there are wild flocks out there with the hawks everyday so I don't think it is a problem. It is so exciting to see them fly free, I can't wait to go back to Natural Encounters
 

Stevo

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I really want to go next year, but Clicker Expo is the weekend before and I am going to Lara Joseph for training. I am hoping for 2014 though!

Steve's ranch is a real eye-opener :)
 

Featherpaws

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it IS your choice in the end, but it honestly just scares me, but thats me. i dont mean YOU no harm or your bird, i only DREAM i could do what you can do and live with a cage free bird like that, but i cannot as i would not be able to risk losing my bird that way. i will not let my cats outside either. they stay indoors as i do not wish to see them hit by cars or taken by predators or hurt by other people. yes, he knows his freedom now, and its not an easy situation for you. my point with the native species is that some birds get loose and DO cause problems in the environment, in ways people dont think about at first because they arent obvious. a flock of toos would be safer as bigger numbers mean more eyes to watch for predators. a lone bird is more likely to be attacked... but at the same time, i do not think it is advisable to release a whole flock of toos into the wild where they COULD potentially breed and cause problems for the environment, but that is my opinion as a naturalist, i know some cavity nesters could suffer from this consequence. a single bird wont cause that trouble. but a single bird is more at risk from predation.


i think the perfect compromise is only having him out while you are outside and bringing him inside a large aviary any other time you are not outside. he gets the best of both worlds and so do you. keeps him safe in case you are not around, and he still gets his freedom. it sounds like this is your plan, and it is a very respectable one :) i mean you no harm and i do not judge you as i do not know 100% your situation. my post before was simply food for thought. :) i dont know you to judge you and it wouldnt be my place to do so anyways. do what is best for your situation, but try to be creative in some ways to help keep him safer. we would all be heartbroken if something were to happen to him :(
 

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What if you just created an enclosure that he wasn't actually locked in? You could build something and when he is home you could train him to hang out in there, by feeding him there, offering his favorite treats in there, giving him attention in there. Maybe he could be trained that if there was danger he could fly into his safety area and maybe he could be trained to sleep there. You could make it like a structure that is open on one side maybe with perfect perches and all his stuff in there. You could design it in a way that he could easily get into it because he knows about it. Does that make sense?
 

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I would be worried if it were a place that he could fly into that he could be trapped by a predator in it. If he can get into it then they can also :shrug:
 

brilywi

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I would be worried if it were a place that he could fly into that he could be trapped by a predator in it. If he can get into it then they can also :shrug:
I agree with this. If there's an entry for Amigo, there's an entry for the hawk.

This is why I mentioned the part about building an aviary not being foolproof in this situation. You still have to keep an eye out because hawks can snap metal pretty easily and it doesn't take much. We've had a hawk try to get to our birds in the aviary at the zoo and its all pretty thick metal mesh and the hawk was so angry at his missed meal that he ripped a small hole in our aviary. Not big enough to let the birds out (or any birds IN), but its still there as a sort of reminder as to what kind of damage they can do in a split second. I think Amigo would be better off either completely in a really well maintained and checked aviary or left as he is. From what I've read, it doesn't sound like putting him back inside is really an option for Mare and her husband. If he gets an aviary, I would encourage it to be checked for ANY damage or holes thoroughly on a daily basis. If there is the smallest weakness and a hawk does decide to try and get after him while he's in the aviary, it will just be easier for the hawk to get in with Amigo. If that happens, I don't believe Amigo would survive unless he could get through the opening in a split second.
 

Mare

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Our original thought with an aviary for Amigo, was to give him a place to come to in harsh weather, if we weren't home. Then we expanded our thoughts to include a place that we could keep Amigo if we ever wanted to leave our place, together, as a couple, it hasn't happened yet, and someone could come in daily to feed him and make sure his water was up, and also give him company.
You know what, Featherpaws? Call me naive, but when we started on this venture with Amigo, I never thought it was impossible, I never thought that Amigo couldn't handle it. It kind of makes me sad that if I had been on a forum prior to our journey, this would not be his life, now. It could end, any minute, but the life that he experiences now could only be surpassed by him having a mate.
 

BraveheartDogs

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I think an aviary or some kind of enclosure, even if just for night time might be good.

Our original thought with an aviary for Amigo, was to give him a place to come to in harsh weather, if we weren't home. Then we expanded our thoughts to include a place that we could keep Amigo if we ever wanted to leave our place, together, as a couple, it hasn't happened yet, and someone could come in daily to feed him and make sure his water was up, and also give him company.
You know what, Featherpaws? Call me naive, but when we started on this venture with Amigo, I never thought it was impossible, I never thought that Amigo couldn't handle it. It kind of makes me sad that if I had been on a forum prior to our journey, this would not be his life, now. It could end, any minute, but the life that he experiences now could only be surpassed by him having a mate.
 

brilywi

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Our original thought with an aviary for Amigo, was to give him a place to come to in harsh weather, if we weren't home. Then we expanded our thoughts to include a place that we could keep Amigo if we ever wanted to leave our place, together, as a couple, it hasn't happened yet, and someone could come in daily to feed him and make sure his water was up, and also give him company.
You know what, Featherpaws? Call me naive, but when we started on this venture with Amigo, I never thought it was impossible, I never thought that Amigo couldn't handle it. It kind of makes me sad that if I had been on a forum prior to our journey, this would not be his life, now. It could end, any minute, but the life that he experiences now could only be surpassed by him having a mate.
If I remember correctly, doesn't Amigo attack your son when he is around? You might want to make sure to install feeder doors on the aviary in case he ends up not liking whoever you get to keep an eye on him.

I also agree with Vicki, though. He might do well with a night "cage" so to speak. It would be a small aviary, large enough for him to climb around and play in and maybe glide, but small enough for him to feel secure and he might rest easier knowing there aren't any predators to worry about.
 

Featherpaws

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Our original thought with an aviary for Amigo, was to give him a place to come to in harsh weather, if we weren't home. Then we expanded our thoughts to include a place that we could keep Amigo if we ever wanted to leave our place, together, as a couple, it hasn't happened yet, and someone could come in daily to feed him and make sure his water was up, and also give him company.
You know what, Featherpaws? Call me naive, but when we started on this venture with Amigo, I never thought it was impossible, I never thought that Amigo couldn't handle it. It kind of makes me sad that if I had been on a forum prior to our journey, this would not be his life, now. It could end, any minute, but the life that he experiences now could only be surpassed by him having a mate.

its not an impossible lifestyle, just an extremely complicated one that i dont think many should attempt. its hawk migration right now until the beginning of january for some species, you are likely to encounter many. i hope you have many more years with him, i really do, and i hope the hawks dont cause much more problems. but keep a close eye on them. coopers are highly intelligent hawks, theyre resourceful. i'd be cautious with them ;)
 
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