Clipping wings - animal protection

[maggygermany]

Hello everybody

we startet to talk about clipping wings at "Paco the DYH Amazon ... "

In Germany it es illegal and cruel.

Animal protection is very important in Germany.
If someone violates the law, he can get a very hard fine, and also go to prison for.

One of the laws is - that there is a absolutely NO NO NO NO Never ... for clipping wings. (Because a bird has wings to fly)

Now I see that lots of things are basicly different in Germany and the hole world. I want to find and understand these differents.

Please tell me any reason, why you don´t want your birds to fly excellently like they do in free nature.

(I don´t know anyone to clip his dogs or cats feet to keep it from running away! For me - it´s the same!)

Thanks for helping me
to understand

Maggy

 

[TITANIS]

Hi Maggy,

This is a hotly debated topic in N. America where it is legal to clip. I never knew clipping was actually illegal in some countries but my knowledge of animal laws are limited outside this continent. It is also legal to declaw cats over here, and you might be aware that is actually crueler because it entails the removal of a portion of a cat's digit (toes).

There are obviously many people who clip their birds' wings and there are several reasons to do so. I do not advocate clipping a baby bird's wings in the first year for developmental reasons, but clipping an adult's wings might be necessary for safety concerns in certain environments. For example, some homes are simply not safe for a bird to fly anywhere it desires. There are countless potential hazards in a home where there is no bird-safe designated room. Keeping a bird inside its cage for indefinite periods is much crueler, and some people elect clipping to permit their birds outside their cages for hours every day. Clipping is essentially practiced for the safety of the birds concerned more than any other reason.

 

[maggygermany]

so - before I decidet to have birds - I created a bird-safe home
(Hi Titanis - very very very much words I´ve to look for)

 

[waterfaller1]

It is also a law in certain states here that to keep non domestic waterfowl they must be pinioned.
Such as swans...

 

[maggygermany]

I see - it´s very different all around the world

 

[dragonlady2]

I also clip some of my bird's wings as they do not all get along. I don't want to have to worry about separating two fighting birds or injuries. This also allows them to have more out of cage time. Two of my birds are not interested in the other birds and those two I leave flighted.

 

[itzmered]

That is interesting that it is illegal to clip wings in Germany. There was a pretty lively discussion on the debate about clipping or not awhile ago on here. You can browse through it for some insight into both sides of the debate http://forums.avianavenue.com/airport/5484-clipping-not.html

 

[JLcribber]

so - before I decidet to have birds - I created a bird-safe home
(Hi Titanis - very very very much words I´ve to look for)

And that should be the mindset of anybody considering having a bird. To do it any other way is not considering the bird. It is the human considering the human. If we can't provide what they need then don't provide period. Germany has that one right!!! JMHO.

To Fly or Not To Fly. Steve Martin

 

[evsrin]

There are obviously many people who clip their birds' wings and there are several reasons to do so. I do not advocate clipping a baby bird's wings in the first year for developmental reasons, but clipping an adult's wings might be necessary for safety concerns in certain environments. For example, some homes are simply not safe for a bird to fly anywhere it desires. There are countless potential hazards in a home where there is no bird-safe designated room. Keeping a bird inside its cage for indefinite periods is much crueler, and some people elect clipping to permit their birds outside their cages for hours every day. Clipping is essentially practiced for the safety of the birds concerned more than any other reason.

I couldn't agree more. My home is a perfect example. I have cats and dogs, and half of our home is under construction at any given time. So, it's just not safe to have my GCC fully flighted. He would be in his cage all day because I just can't have him flying around the house. My cats are very well behaved when we are around and he is out, but all it would take is one of them to catch him mid-air and it would be over!

Some may feel the people who have cats shouldn't have birds, but that would leave a lot of birds homeless in the US, including mine since I adopted him from a rescue. I love all of my pets and I do my best to ensure their safety amongst one another and in the home. I clip my cats nails so that they are less of a danger to the birds & don't scratch the furniture, and I doubt anyone would find that cruel. (None are declawed)

So, I clip my bird's wings to keep him safe and I would never tolerate him being flighted and having the opportunity to attack my family or a guest. Does that mean his life is horrible? I would beg to differ with anyone who thinks so, he gets great nutrition, enrichment, and lots of love here- and if you ask me I bet that's more then what he got before since they got rid of him and surrendered him to a rescue!

 

[birdlvr466]

I also clip some of my bird's wings as they do not all get along. I don't want to have to worry about separating two fighting birds or injuries. This also allows them to have more out of cage time. Two of my birds are not interested in the other birds and those two I leave flighted.

I wouldnt count on that as a fail proof way of handling this. Birds should be supervised when out together. What if one of the "flighted" birds decides to visit one of the clipped birds? Maybe it hasnt happened "yet" but it could happen.

 

[Limits]

I can see pros and cons in safety on both sides:

flighted birds;
may escape
fly into windows/mirrors
attack people/animals
unsafe house etc

clipped birds:
no quick escape from danger
never gets to fly properly
restricted to been moved by the owner

theres plenty of cons for them both. Just personal preference, its like to get insurance for £200 on a brand new washing machine... On one hand it should last 4 years before it starts breaking and you'd be saving yourself £200 if you didnt get it. On the other hand will you kick yourself if it break after a year and costs £800 to fix it?! Its your choice and your risk...

 

[evsrin]

I can see pros and cons in safety on both sides:

flighted birds;
may escape
fly into windows/mirrors
attack people/animals
unsafe house etc

clipped birds:
no quick escape from danger
never gets to fly properly
restricted to been moved by the owner

theres plenty of cons for them both. Just personal preference, its like to get insurance for £200 on a brand new washing machine... On one hand it should last 4 years before it starts breaking and you'd be saving yourself £200 if you didnt get it. On the other hand will you kick yourself if it break after a year and costs £800 to fix it?! Its your choice and your risk...

Yes, and everyone just has to decide what it best for their bird and home. If I lived in a warm climate without harsh winters I'd have an outdoor aviary with unclipped birds!

 

[Limits]

Precisely Nobody can tell you whats best because only you know how your situation is...

 

[GreenParrot]

In my opinion even domesticated birds need to fly, its the best excercise they can get. It certainly is not at all the same when wild birds fly in the blue sky or in the jungle and when they fly having ceilings over their heads. But I guess that they dont mind afterall, as living in a house is all they know. And they have to get some excercise one way or another. I believe that clipping a birds wings is not a means to let us be more free and less carefull that something might happen when the parrot is out of his cage. I believe that clipping should be done to handle very aggressive parrots or with serious behavioral problems otherwise I dont see why we cant make a room bird safe for them to be really "free" in there. I'd also like to have a cat and a dog but I wouldnt deprive my bird from deciding all on her own that she wants to follow me in the kitchen or when I'm out of her sight and she wants to come and check what I am up to.

 

[Limits]

I wasnt meaning for people to be careless just for those people who want slightly more peace of mind.

 

[jmfleish]

In my opinion, there are just as many dangers for a clipped bird as there are for a flighted bird. We've just been fed the mantra that clipping is safer here in the states. In most countries, like Germany, people do not clip and look at clipping as cruel and unusual. And, as usual, the US is behind the times...way behind...

 

[Riley's mom]

I couldn't agree more. My home is a perfect example. I have cats and dogs, and half of our home is under construction at any given time. So, it's just not safe to have my GCC fully flighted. He would be in his cage all day because I just can't have him flying around the house. My cats are very well behaved when we are around and he is out, but all it would take is one of them to catch him mid-air and it would be over!

Some may feel the people who have cats shouldn't have birds, but that would leave a lot of birds homeless in the US, including mine since I adopted him from a rescue. I love all of my pets and I do my best to ensure their safety amongst one another and in the home. I clip my cats nails so that they are less of a danger to the birds & don't scratch the furniture, and I doubt anyone would find that cruel. (None are declawed)

So, I clip my bird's wings to keep him safe and I would never tolerate him being flighted and having the opportunity to attack my family or a guest. Does that mean his life is horrible? I would beg to differ with anyone who thinks so, he gets great nutrition, enrichment, and lots of love here- and if you ask me I bet that's more then what he got before since they got rid of him and surrendered him to a rescue!

Great post!!!

 

[MommyBird]

Could I have clarification if in Germany we are talking about clipping wing feathers or pinioning wings which could be called clipping wings.
I could certainly see that pinioning should be illegal.
But it would be interesting to know if it was clipping feathers that was illegal.

BTW, my birds are all allowed to fly indoors, although my OWA has an injury and is unable. I probably have it easier than many to make a bird-safe home since I have no kids, no other pets, and my birds are divided into rooms by who doesn't fight.

 

[jmfleish]

Could I have clarification if in Germany we are talking about clipping wing feathers or pinioning wings which could be called clipping wings.
I could certainly see that pinioning should be illegal.
But it would be interesting to know if it was clipping feathers that was illegal.

BTW, my birds are all allowed to fly indoors, although my OWA has an injury and is unable. I probably have it easier than many to make a bird-safe home since I have no kids, no other pets, and my birds are divided into rooms by who doesn't fight.

It is illegal to clip a bird's wings in Germany. You didn't misunderstand that! Animal Rights is much further along in Europe than it is here in the US. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing!

 

[TITANIS]

Could I have clarification if in Germany we are talking about clipping wing feathers or pinioning wings which could be called clipping wings.
I could certainly see that pinioning should be illegal.
But it would be interesting to know if it was clipping feathers that was illegal.

Yes, that would make a ton of sense. I think most if not everyone on this forum considers pinioning as butchery. I see no requirement for doing this to any bird, regardless of situation.

It is illegal to clip a bird's wings in Germany. You didn't misunderstand that! Animal Rights is much further along in Europe than it is here in the US. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing!

Perhaps so, but how in the world would they go about enforcing it in a country with that many people?