Can an adult bird be taught to fly?

[peppermint]

wow!
I haven't been on here in about a week or more, and reading the many posts about birds that have learned to fly or to adapt to loving families is heartwarming.
One of the things i love to read on here.
god bless each and everyone of you guys!

 

[clawnz]

John is on to it.
It's called Atrophy.
Once those muscles degenerate, in an older bird they are very unlikely to re develop.
And this does not have to be that older bird. Even those poor birds that are constantly kept clipped can suffer from the same thing.

I say this as I have worked a few birds now, after rehoming them here.
Alex is my latest.
2.3yrs in and he still cannot fly for any prolonged flight unless freaked into it. even 10ft seems to be a challenge.
He is now 7.5yrs old. Was clipped for the first 5yrs. He came in fully feathered as another person took him off his first owner and let him grow flight feathers.
He could not turn in flight, and no way was he going to fly downwards. Unless running out of steam counts.
Yet it did not stop him from flying out of the vets last year. And spending two days out in the wild.
That is another story.
I worked him to the point I made him take at least one flight a day. Even if I had to launch him.
It took 2yrs before he could turn in flight. Add another 4mths, before he could feather air enough to descend in a controlled flight.
His confidence is getting better, but still spends a lot of time begging for me to go get him.

Ask me why I dislike those who promote clipping?
I see the mental and psychical damage they do, to a flighted animal.

 

[redindiaink]

If I move my arm at all while he's on it he gets pretty scared like I'm going to drop him.

I give mine a cue to let him know what I'm about to do, "do you want to fly?" and "fly, be free! Weee!!!" in a high pitch squeee! kind of voice when I'm doing it because I was concerned I might inadvertently make him hand shy. I've been dropping my hand a few feet which forces him to use his wings for balance to try and build up those muscles which he seems to like.

 

[Macawnutz]

Sam is a flying machine now .... huge bird at 1300ish grams.

Start to get Buzzard flapping. Make fun games out of moving him up and down.

 

[faislaq]

I am being less and less "careful" while moving with him through the house and he is completely getting used to it! He still gives a disapproving squawk if I lean too much or move too quickly, but I think he's doing really well. Still not a flap yet, but lots more bouncing with him.

Also, I wonder if I'm not backing off too soon? I want this to be something fun for him and I know he'll love flapping once he starts it, but I am afraid to spook him in the meantime and don't want to go too far as to make him panic go back to square one. I don't want to be overprotective but he is my Baby Buzzy Boy. As soon as he seems alarmed or looks uncomfortable we stop and sway and go back to cuddling.

 

[faislaq]

Is he food motivated? Can you put a treat where he can see it but has to fly to reach it? His wings likely are lacking a lot of the necessary muscle

I keep going back to this. He is VERY food motivated. But I'm worried that if I put a treat in front of him and he can't reach it and I don't take him to it, at what point is that just teasing him? I know our dog's trainer said "no free treats" when they're working, but I'm not entirely sure Buzzard would understand what I'm asking him to do. Or worse, would try climbing to it instead -we're trying to discourage him on the floor.

 

[Mizzely]

I keep going back to this. He is VERY food motivated. But I'm worried that if I put a treat in front of him and he can't reach it and I don't take him to it, at what point is that just teasing him? I know our dog's trainer said "no free treats" when they're working, but I'm not entirely sure Buzzard would understand what I'm asking him to do. Or worse, would try climbing to it instead -we're trying to discourage him on the floor.

I'm my experience, they either will be motivated to get it, or they will move on and ignore.

 

[Begone]

He is VERY food motivated. But I'm worried that if I put a treat in front of him and he can't reach it and I don't take him to it, at what point is that just teasing him? I know our dog's trainer said "no free treats" when they're working, but I'm not entirely sure Buzzard would understand what I'm asking him to do.

A bird is not that food motivated like dogs are. If birds don't understand they often walk away.
That's why I always continue to keep them happy and I want them to trying, and for that it can mean that you need to give them treats, that's nothing wrong with that.
For an example.
Your goal is to make him fly to you.
If he reach out to you, jump to you, jump or climb to another point (in your direction), that is also right because you want him to come to you = Give him treats. But not if you have the treat in your hand and move it further away when he reach out for it. That is teasing and that is wrong.
Have the treat on the same place, if he can reach it, it's his. Then it never can be teasing.
I suggest to train on the bed or an a cough. And let him jump to you. That is a good start.

 

[faislaq]

@Eloy When I was picturing using a nut to get Buzzard to try to jump and eventually fly, I was picturing him on my arm, me tossing a nut on the bed & him... not going anywhere. Duh, it makes so much more sense that he would want to come to me holding a treat than it would for him to leave me for an almond that he has to work to go and get. I'm sure that's what the others meant when they suggested it, but I totally missed that. Sometimes the tiniest detail makes such a huge difference. Thank you!

 

[peppermint]

hi again!
i wonder if your bird was ever able to fly.
being confined in a small cage should really take away his instinct to even flap his wings - if he ever flew.
also that he was scared of motion is also a bit strange because we're talking about smart birds here, not just a regular hen [which contrary to what people think, are also rather smart and can be trained, but for the sake of the argument i will use the popular stereotype of a hen being not very bright]

what i mean is that, while the bird was confined, therefore not exposed much to movement of any kind, i wonder if he can forget completely how it feels like to move, flap/fly. my human brain tells me that if you never move from a spot, the first time around will be one of the strangest and possibly the scariest things... so, this makes me think he possibly either never in his life really flew, or spend much more time confined than what you've been told.

in any case, the progress you made is still good! not being afraid of movement anymore, and being able to move faster is great!

and don't worry about not understanding the treat-trick well: i didn't either at first. but this is why we're here for: learn something new and helpful, and sharing our experiences with others to help them learn and sometimes we need 1st grader explanations to how to do things: no shame in that!
@faislaq

 

[faislaq]

sometimes we need 1st grader explanations to how to do things: no shame in that!
@faislaq

I totally did! But you're right, we learn things big and small here - even things that are obvious to most.

And I'm excited about Buzzard's improvement as well! Of course getting him flying would be a dream come true , but I am so thrilled with the progress he's made already, that I'm certain he will learn to flap one day. And God forbid he should ever fall again, but if he can at least flap, it should at least lessen the impact, which was my original concern.

 

[finchly]

Karen I forgot about one thing I've done with Ernie and still do: I ignore him when I know he wants to move from place to place. And that makes him have to fly. Or flap at least.

Example: Yesterday I was in bird room nearly all day long. Ernie is usually on my shoulder, but it was bothering him that others wanted on me so i got a couple of bites from him, which means birdie time out. The 2nd time I could tell he wanted back on his own perch (front of his cage) but I ignored it and actually walked out of the room to keep from giving in. When I came back, he had flown diagonally across to get to his cage --- probably 12-14 feet but in my mind that is HUGE. I have no idea whether he circled the room first, as his aim is not great for landing, but he got to the right place in less than 5 minutes so that is cause for celebration.

I don't do this often. Only once out of every 20 or so times he wants to move.

 

[jmfleish]

I think the biggest thing is to get him flapping and liking it. My newest bird, Cisco, also never uses her wings. Last night, I had her in the kitchen and put her on top of one of the cages and Iris went after her toes (I shouldn't have put her there). She actually attempted to fly off the cage and flew to the floor. Not well, but she glided down. She's fully flighted, so this told me that her wings do work but she lacks the muscle tone to actually fly. It was the first time I had ever seen her actually even try to open her wings up and use them which was fantastic but it also tells me that she's got a lot of work to do in order to actually fly. I'm guessing she was never fledged and has no idea how to fly. I'm hoping that by working with her that we can get those muscles built up and there's absolutely no reason we can't. Once the muscles are stronger, then we work on teaching her how to use the wings! That's what I would suggest and there's no reason why she and Buzzy can't do that!

 

[faislaq]

We have flapping! Mostly one wing so far, but sometimes both. Just one or two flaps at a time, but it's a start. Since Buzzy is getting used to me moving through the house with him on my arm and moving more quickly, I've begun doing chores with him on my arm. Stuff that makes me have to stoop and twist more, like when I have to bend down to get the rest of the dirty clothes out of the hamper, or when I have to reach really high or low to put away dishes. He gives a quick squawk and a flap (twice yesterday and once the night before) but he actually seems less afraid of it and is taking it all in stride now! Yes, it is so much more difficult doing chores with only one arm, but I remind myself that there are people who only have one arm and do these things everyday. Plus it's extra bonus time with Buzzard so it's a win-win!

She actually attempted to fly off the cage and flew to the floor. Not well, but she glided down. She's fully flighted, so this told me that her wings do work but she lacks the muscle tone to actually fly.

Our girl, Harley, has had a handful of low-altitude flights across the living room. Usually when one of the other gcc's tried to get too close to her. She can surprisingly , but always to the ground. I agree it's partly a lack of muscle tone, but also we believe she has extremely poor vision and is possibly blind in one eye, so no real attempts at flying. But she does flap furiously in her cage a few times a day like @Dartman's Nerd -so hard that her cage cover billows out when she does it at night!

@jmfleish Yay for Miss Cisco! Hopefully she and Buzzard will both continue to make progress and can get to where Ernie is, if not Sam the "flying machine"!!

@aooratrix Any luck with Petey so far?

 

[aooratrix]

We have flapping! Mostly one wing so far, but sometimes both. Just one or two flaps at a time, but it's a start. Since Buzzy is getting used to me moving through the house with him on my arm and moving more quickly, I've begun doing chores with him on my arm. Stuff that makes me have to stoop and twist more, like when I have to bend down to get the rest of the dirty clothes out of the hamper, or when I have to reach really high or low to put away dishes. He gives a quick squawk and a flap (twice yesterday and once the night before) but he actually seems less afraid of it and is taking it all in stride now! Yes, it is so much more difficult doing chores with only one arm, but I remind myself that there are people who only have one arm and do these things everyday. Plus it's extra bonus time with Buzzard so it's a win-win!


Our girl, Harley, has had a handful of low-altitude flights across the living room. Usually when one of the other gcc's tried to get too close to her. She can surprisingly , but always to the ground. I agree it's partly a lack of muscle tone, but also we believe she has extremely poor vision and is possibly blind in one eye, so no real attempts at flying. But she does flap furiously in her cage a few times a day like @Dartman's Nerd -so hard that her cage cover billows out when she does it at night!

@jmfleish Yay for Miss Cisco! Hopefully she and Buzzard will both continue to make progress and can get to where Ernie is, if not Sam the "flying machine"!!

@aooratrix Any luck with Petey so far?

He's been flapping, climbing, and playing, so he's getting exercise and getting stronger. The other day, he jumped off my arm and glided/flew (combo of both) into the next room. I'm pretty sure my other flyers are motivating him. I have high hopes.

 

[faislaq]

@aooratrix Oh my goodness, that must have been so cool!! I bet it's a huge help seeing other birds fly, too. Unfortunately, Scotty's random bug-out flights are over so quickly, I doubt they're any help to Buzzard.

 

[aooratrix]

@faislaq : doesn't mean he'll fly, but I won't give up.

 

[faislaq]

Buzzard just flew! Not far, but he did it! He was on my arm and we were sitting on the sofa. My husband's friend laughed rather abruptly about something on tv & Buzzard lifted straight up from my arm about a foot and then flew about 4 feet before descending quickly, but not what I would call falling. He seemed as surprised as we were, but not scared.

I feel bad that he was startled but so glad he was able to land safely! He flapped a handful of times this week. Once when I brought him in the shower with me I got about 2 flaps before he started to enjoy getting soaked, and again when I offered him a 2nd shower he flapped a couple more times to keep his balance when he ran up my arm and onto my head to avoid getting wet and then he has started to fully extend both wings more often during his spray baths without flapping. I don't think that was enough exercise to have built up any kind of muscle tone yet, but from how good his short flight looked, I think this may not have been the first time he has flown? He appeared to know what he was doing, and even turned to try and land on the end table, but didn't quite have enough strength and fell just short.
I was so surprised and excited. I talked to him in a happy voice using his excited words as he stepped up and immediately walked him to the nut bowl on the counter and gave him a pistachio and an almond and let him regroup and enjoy them on the perch on the front of his cage. You could knock me over with a big blue and yellow feather right now!

 

[Macawnutz]

All it takes is a few to really have them get the mindset. GO BUZZY!

Sam did startled hail mary's for about a year before "getting it". I have no doubt Buzzard will fly. Do you have a harness? Might be a good time to start working to put one on.

 

[faislaq]

We lost Pistachio to a hawk last October. I don't plan on taking any of our birds outside again without a travel cage, harness or no.