"Bird Free" Claims - How do you back them up?

[Mizzely]

Didn't mean to make anyone upset or paranoid. It was just something that came up in conversation and I hadn't really thought about it. I admit that there are a few places I won't order from because of either rumor or truths, so I do only order from places that I trust in this regard. There are certain diseases like PBFD that can exist outside the host for some time, and I do agree that the likelihood of actually getting a disease from a toy is low. I do know that some people are very adamant about buying only from "clean" sources so it made me curious.

 

[DQTimnehs]

Wood comes from trees and birds live in trees. So wood (perches, toys, toy parts or just lumber) could technically have come in contact with any number of wild diseased birds. Paranoia will destroy ya!
I think the vendors are more careful than most pet stores.

 

[Deejo]

Majority of vendors on here run their bird store either within their home in a room or in a small shop outback, we all want the best for our parrots and other parrot's out there.

In our case - Avian Stainless and Avian Organics - we do not have parrots, so there is no risk of anything. I agree with what's already been posted in this thread - minimal risk of spreading avian diseases, but be aware of those minimal risks, and shop with trusted vendors. There are many! Dusty, dirty pet stores - for sure you'd avoid shopping there. I think what Jan says is true - most vendors want the best for your parrots. Toy shopping should be FUN!

 

[hawkygal]

Ahh but the places I got wood from would sanitize it I think it was by bakeing it after something else maybe? Can't remember now.

I shop in real life at a store that allows no birds thru the doors that don't have vaccination and clear test results on file that have to be regularly updated. Not a iron clad security but a reassurance to be sure. And when I go somewhere with a lot of birds outdoors I wipe my shoes down with sanitizer that kills bird related illness'. And backpacks and then wash and change clothes.

the online stores I've used in the past took similar precautions so I guess I just assumed the ones here did too. And some bird diseases can survive for 6 years on a surface of an object such as a toy or dish.

 

[Merlie]

Can't live in bubble but it doesn't hurt to be careful.

@hawkygal ... I wouldn't ever be worried about buying from Danita.

 

[Shivan]

I pop new stuff in the microwave or regular (preheated 300 F*) and heat them up for a bit before introducing them. Washing is good also...I guess it just depends on the toy/product.

 

[jmfleish]

Ahh but the places I got wood from would sanitize it I think it was by bakeing it after something else maybe? Can't remember now.

I shop in real life at a store that allows no birds thru the doors that don't have vaccination and clear test results on file that have to be regularly updated. Not a iron clad security but a reassurance to be sure. And when I go somewhere with a lot of birds outdoors I wipe my shoes down with sanitizer that kills bird related illness'. And backpacks and then wash and change clothes.

the online stores I've used in the past took similar precautions so I guess I just assumed the ones here did too. And some bird diseases can survive for 6 years on a surface of an object such as a toy or dish.

First of all, there is only one vaccination for parrots that I know of and that's Polyoma. It's almost exclusively given to baby birds only because it mostly affects baby birds. There are no vaccinations for the other big diseases that we worry about most frequently, PBFD, ABV, PDD, giardia, etc.

As I mentioned before, it makes no real difference if birds are on the premise where the toys are being made and store or not if the people who work there have birds and aren't following all of the full on biohazard rules every time they come into the building. That's basically what you are asking of each and every vendor. Anything less isn't going stop disease. Maybe you should be more interested in the health of the birds at the establishments you frequent if you're that worried. I would think that regular check ups and scanning for diseases would be much more important questions to ask.

Finally, what disease is it that can live outside of a host for up to six years? That's nothing I've ever heard of.

 

[jmfleish]

Didn't mean to make anyone upset or paranoid. It was just something that came up in conversation and I hadn't really thought about it. I admit that there are a few places I won't order from because of either rumor or truths, so I do only order from places that I trust in this regard. There are certain diseases like PBFD that can exist outside the host for some time, and I do agree that the likelihood of actually getting a disease from a toy is low. I do know that some people are very adamant about buying only from "clean" sources so it made me curious.

Please share these rumors and/or truths. I'm sure we would all like to be more aware and if they are rumors that are not true, the person involved should be able to clear his/her name, at the very least.

 

[Mizzely]

Please share these rumors and/or truths. I'm sure we would all like to be more aware and if they are rumors that are not true, the person involved should be able to clear his/her name, at the very least.

If the rumors aren't true, then it's only my business lost by me not saying anything. I am not comfortable publicly calling anyone out because of things I've read or inferred from postings. It's really not my place to cast doubt on any vendor, and people should do their own research and make their own conclusions rather than be swayed by one person's opinion based on what may or may not be true.

 

[calibird]

California Bird Nerds is a bird free environment. I have not owned birds in over 8 years and have owned California Bird Nerds for almost 5 1/2 years now.

 

[Birdiemarie]

...
Now i'm worried about all these toys i'm buying from the red light sale....

I completely trust Danita's production setup and have no hesitation buying from her.

 

[Birdiemarie]

If the rumors aren't true, then it's only my business lost by me not saying anything. I am not comfortable publicly calling anyone out because of things I've read or inferred from postings. It's really not my place to cast doubt on any vendor, and people should do their own research and make their own conclusions rather than be swayed by one person's opinion based on what may or may not be true.

Really? But you did cast doubt and suspicion on all AA vendors with your post and that is not what AA is about. The decent thing to do would have been to just ask the person privately so you could decide if you wanted to purchase from them or not.

 

[Mizzely]

OMG seriously? I can't win for losing here. I wasn't trying to cast doubt on anyone. Did anyone see me confirm that I avoid buying from AA vendors? No. I said VENDORS in general. Want one of my "do not order from" names? Fine. TODD MARCUS BIRDS EXOTIC - THEBIRDSTORE.COM - DELRAN, NJ (856) 764-2473 I won't order from them because of them having birds and the affiliation with Todd Marcus.

Bringing up any topic can make people paranoid or cast doubts. Look how much everyone freaks out about egg laying because of the horror stories on AA. I simply asked a question that maybe more people should have. I can't think of how many times I've seen someone mention "and they have a bird free environment so I trust buying from them" or the flip side of "I won't shop there due to birds being kept there too." All my thread did was remind us all that we don't ever know what is really the true story and to be careful regardless of what we think we know. What I've learned is that it doesn't matter WHO you order from because, 1) bird free environment doesn't mean much if you are trying to avoid disease and 2) the likelihood of your bird getting sick from a bird toy is low.


I thought AA was about the safety of our birds. That's what my entire thread was about.

 

[Deejo]

Very interested in the statement that an avian disease can survive on a toy or a bowl for 6 years? Curious where that information came from?

 

[wonderb]

I don't understand the all or nothing mindset. Nothing is "going to stop" the flu but washing your hands is extremely effective. The same goes for vendors IMO. There's a much lower chance of passing along disease from vendors who take certain precautions such as a separate work space, washing hands, storing parts away from pets, etc. versus vendors who make their toys on the couch with a parrot on their shoulder. It's just common sense.

 

[Jan]

Another thought is: so just say us vendors order supplies from others who sell these toy parts we buy, they own birds perhaps, what's to say that the items we buy was to be infected with some disease so it comes into our shop then gets sent on out to a customer ... and yet the disease did not even originate from the actual vendor.

I've never allowed myself to stress over stuff like this subject. I try to take precautions is all, I go with the flow and try to practice the bio-security thing and do not take my birds into my shop and wash my hands first before starting on orders or if making toys.

Subjects such as this one... it's kind of off the wall. People own dogs or cats and yet you never hear of the over stressing and yet dogs and cats have horrible diseases and such.

Most importantly, as long as visitors to a vendors shop are not permitted in, that in itself will stop any spreading of not only avian diseases but other diseases.

Did I tell you all that my "6 pet birds" that now live in my aviary that is next to my shop, separate building. I'm to the point that people will either order from me or they won't ... nevertheless, my shop is just as clear of any disease as the next vendor who has no birds around.

 

[itzmered]

I think the question was a valid one. We all need to think about these types of things but not to the point that we are too paranoid to order toys from anyone. I look at it the same way I did with my children, if I knew someone had chicken pox, the flu etc they wouldnt be exposed to them if I could help it. We took regular precautions and they all learned the importance of washing their hands but we are not germaphobes. I trust that what the vendors I buy from are telling me is the truth. If I have questions I ask if I dont get a satisfactory answer I don't buy from them.

 

[Cyreen]

Subjects such as this one... People own dogs or cats and yet you never hear of the over stressing and yet dogs and cats have horrible diseases and such.

Agreed. Just think of off-leash parks.

There are no absolute guarantees; even walking into a vet clinic has its risks. If you choose to be paranoid, you're going to drive yourself crazy.

 

[Macawnutz]

I'm kinda overkill when it comes to bird disease and precautionary measures. I QT new flock members off property and have someone else take care of them during this time. My new bird exams and testing are extensive and I try to leave nothing to the unknown.

I don't order from a ton of stores as I have my favorites but I have not even questioned any of the vendors here. This is where I come to find the good caring clean bird loving stores I want to order from. Stores that are used by other bird caring members and have a history of excellent customer satisfaction. Here we talk to the store members on a daily basis. Here we have the ability to hurt a stores reputation far quicker than some online store with a 1 800 number. I think that says a ton about the vendors that post here.

 

[Wasabisaurus]

It's a valid question. I have not and would not hesitate for even one moment from buying from any vendor here. I do a lot of shopping with Kathie of My Safe Bird Store. I have also bought some beautiful perches from Danita and shopped with other vendors I don't remember at the moment, but I trust them all. I never set foot into any store that sells birds. I am total pro-adoption anyway.I would not touch bird shows with 100 foot pole. I have been to some, but knowing the extent of the risk now -- no. Not worth the potential exposure.

As for biosecurity, we can only do our best, be responsible and educate ourselves. Some birds get sick without known exposure to any nasties. The dreaded ABV, for example. I have heard stories where a bird gets the virus despite being in a private home with no known exposure.

And as far as biosecurity and vet visits go, there are theoretical risks there too. They don't have separate ventilation for their exotics exam rooms. I don't take my boys in when there are other birds at the vet. It's the best I can do. I still worry, but it's the best I can do.