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Pictures Bird acting poorly after beak and nail trim *Sad Update*

Crazy4parrots

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She herself wont infect other birds but the virus particles left in toys and other places such as clothes and wood! Those particles are the ones that will infect other birds. Even after the infected animal is gone. There is 70% risk of other birds getting infected by the virus particles. Its also like Parvo in dogs its lethal in young unvaccinated dogs. As well as older dogs that hasnt had a vaccine in years.
 

Crazy4parrots

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A little of what i read recently

"Older birds may overcome the disease with few lasting affects. Some believe that these surviving birds become carriers able to shed the disease at a later date. Others believe that a percentage of birds are able to eradicate the disease from their system leaving them with a natural immunity that can be passed on to their offspring.

The virus that causes PBFD can also affect the liver, brain, and immune system causing diminished resistance to infections. Consequently premature death usually occurs from these secondary bacterial, fungal, parasitic, or viral infections.



Transmission: Transmission of the virus from one individual to another is primarily through direct contact, inhalation or ingestion of aerosols, crop-feeding, infected fecal material, and feather dust. The virus can also be transmitted via contaminated surfaces such as bird carriers, feeding formula, utensils, food dishes, clothing, and nesting materials. The viral particles, if not destroyed can remain viable in the environment for months, long after the infected bird is gone."
 

mythic55

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I have to agree with this. While PBFD is incredibly hard to get rid of, I don't think it's nearly that hard to spread and I don't think that it lives that long outside its host. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious.
Vet, and UAE government here says it lives outside its host for a few months.
She herself wont infect other birds but the virus particles left in toys and other places such as clothes and wood! Those particles are the ones that will infect other birds. Even after the infected animal is gone. There is 70% risk of other birds getting infected by the virus particles. Its also like Parvo in dogs its lethal in young unvaccinated dogs. As well as older dogs that hasnt had a vaccine in years.
Yes... usually it is young birds that have issues. It affects the immune system- so young birds usually cant make it. However if older birds contract it, there is a chance to live quite a long life (in retrospect) if immediate action is taken. But the virus stays on all sorts of surfaces- and floats around. USA was basically PBFD free but they just had a plethora of crates delivered, all testing positive for PBFD on USA soil. There is an epidemic all over the world- USA is farily exempt in comparison, and many of the birds come from other places in the world (I have intersected the crates.... seen the birds).
 
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Crazy4parrots

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Thats why is so important that you @Reeny desinfect everything...with F10 and test every surface of your house/appartament and test your other birds a bird that is younger than 1 year old have a higher risk to get infected than a 4-5 year old bird. Immune system finishes forming at 18 months of age. So any virus that attacks them before that age it usually ends up been lethal.
 

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Most cases are from bird to bird contact or from contact directly from an environment that had a bird in it that had PBFD. It is very hard to get rid of the disease in that environment but it doesn't mean that the people who live in that environment are tracking the virus everywhere they go. Take precautions yes. Don't give away bird items without warning the recipient. Wash hands frequently. Maybe stay away from friends with birds until you've cleaned everything very well. Chances of you transferring the virus to another bird on your clothing isn't incredibly high but not impossible.

The reason we are seeing more cases of PBFD in the states is because we have more irresponsible breeders spreading the disease. I know that we had a rash of incidents from a single breeder in Chicago last year all related to one individual.
 

Bartleby

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Any dog she (Lili) came in contact with at the pet store or someone that went to the pet store whose dog was infected could be how she got infected.
This is patently untrue. The circovirus is a family of viruses! They are not interchangeable. The avian circovirus is not the porcine circovirus or the canine circovirus. Your dog having the circovirus (which is that canine flu that they were creating mass hysteria about.....and which affected a miniscule amount of dogs) in no way will spread the disease to avians. Very few viruses in the grand scheme of things actually cross species.

As a side note, it is getting very tiresome when people go off half cocked and stoke the flames of mass hysteria when they spread their own personal theories and ideas that are plainly uneducated. If the virus were so easily spread then it would sweep across the nation like an epidemic.....but it doesn't. Vet offices would be disease factories.....they aren't. Vets that handle PBFD birds do not go through full hazmat decontamination procedures before seeing their next client.....because that simply is not necessary to prevent the spread. Breeders with one positive result would lose their entire stock.....they don't. Once one wild cockatoo in a flock is infected they all would be......they aren't, not even remotely.

Yes, there are areas of the world where the disease is rampant, but those areas are also areas where birds are brought in enmass after being captured from the wild, shoved by the dozens into tiny crates where they cannot even turn around, transported in extremes of heat and cold, fed substandard diets (if they are fed at all) watered with hoses sprayed over the packed cages, with no treatment for any injuries suffered during transport or capture. Something like 50+% of the birds brought in this way die during the process.....of course the remaining birds in those conditons will be at exceptional risk for contracting diseases. It is the same darn reason human refugee camps are breeding grounds for disease and death.

I'm also going to say this to @Reeny, I have spent the last 24 hours trying my darnedest to find any medical literature talking about bone marrow suppression in acute PBFD cases....there is nothing. I've shown this thread to my vet who does not at all agree that this is the way young PBFD birds typically present or pass. The circovirus test you have received a positive result for is only, and I repeat only, an antigen test. It is not and never will be a diagnosis. The only conclusion that a single positive test can definitively reach is that your bird was exposed to the circovirus at some point in time. Without corresponding histiopathological and physical findings it is impossible to medically conclude that your bird died from circovirus (PBFD) or complications there of. Maybe there is more information that has not been shared here, but what has been shared does not explain cause of death. No decent medical practitioner makes a definitive diagnosis based on a positive antigen test only.....veterinary or otherwise. It is bad medicine to do so!
 
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Lady Jane

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There is now a vaccine for this virus being utilized in Australia.

In Australia, a killed vaccine has been developed which can protect unexposed birds; it can cause more severe disease in birds already showing signs of PBFD. Birds should be vaccinated as young as possible, as soon as 14 days of age. The vaccine should be boostered after one month, and breeding birds should be vaccinated one month prior to breeding.

I am guessing that bio companies un the US are working on this vaccine also but not sure.
 

Crazy4parrots

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This is patently untrue. The circovirus is a family of viruses! They are not interchangeable. The avian circovirus is not the porcine circovirus or the canine circovirus. Your dog having the circovirus (which is that canine flu that they were creating mass hysteria about.....and which affected a miniscule amount of dogs) in no way will spread the disease to avians. Very few viruses in the grand scheme of things actually cross species.

As a side note, it is getting very tiresome when people go off half cocked and stoke the flames of mass hysteria when they spread their own personal theories and ideas that are plainly uneducated. If the virus were so easily spread then it would sweep across the nation like an epidemic.....but it doesn't. Vet offices would be disease factories.....they aren't. Vets that handle PBFD birds do not go through full hazmat decontamination procedures before seeing their next client.....because that simply is not necessary to prevent the spread. Breeders with one positive result would lose their entire stock.....they don't. Once one wild cockatoo in a flock is infected they all would be......they aren't, not even remotely.

Yes, there are areas of the world where the disease is rampant, but those areas are also areas where birds are brought in enmass after being captured from the wild, shoved by the dozens into tiny crates where they cannot even turn around, transported in extremes of heat and cold, fed substandard diets (if they are fed at all) watered with hoses sprayed over the packed cages, with no treatment for any injuries suffered during transport or capture. Something like 50+% of the birds brought in this way die during the process.....of course the remaining birds in those conditons will be at exceptional risk for contracting diseases. It is the same darn reason human refugee camps are breeding grounds for disease and death.

I'm also going to say this to @Reeny, I have spent the last 24 hours trying my darnedest to find any medical literature talking about bone marrow suppression in acute PBFD cases....there is nothing. I've shown this thread to my vet who does not at all agree that this is the way young PBFD birds typically present or pass. The circovirus test you have received a positive result for is only, and I repeat only, an antigen test. It is not and never will be a diagnosis. The only conclusion that a single positive test can definitively reach is that your bird was exposed to the circovirus at some point in time. Without corresponding histiopathological and physical findings it is impossible to medically conclude that your bird died from circovirus (PBFD) or complications there of. Maybe there is more information that has not been shared here, but what has been shared does not explain cause of death. No decent medical practitioner makes a definitive diagnosis based on a positive antigen test only.....veterinary or otherwise. It is bad medicine to do so!
She may have had a bone marrow disfunction could had been a genetic issue... that with the stress and yes been + means it was exposed to the virus but only if the bird it not showing any signs... and Lili was having issues with her wbc..which means she had the virus. Just because she wasnt showing all symptoms doesnt mean that she didnt had it... many animals only show certain signs not all of them. Every animal is different and every immune system reacts in differents ways.. 80% of cases show certain signs the rest 20% show other signs and its still the same disease.
 

Crazy4parrots

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There has been a media report about the possiblity of cats being infected with this virus. We have contacted the Michigan authorities with a request for more information.

Canine circovirus infections have been documented in dogs with vomiting and diarrhea. The distribution of the virus in the U.S. is not yet known, but dogs infected with circovirus have been reported in California and circovirus may be associated with recent illness and death of dogs in Ohio.
Flu symptoms are not related to canine circovirus but to Bordetella aka Kennel cough.
 

Perriewinkle

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I just caught up on this and i am so sorry. A few days back you said in your post

"I have asked myself many times today what lesson in life did I need to learn from this. I don't have the answer yet."

While I don't have any exact answer.. I believe we go through things like this to be taught how to grieve openly without shame. Grieving is very personal and like most personal things, society pushes it away.

But I also believe that sometimes the animal needed you as badly as you needed them. Whatever the reason may be, you have beautiful memories and they will shape your future.

My heart goes out to you. I rescued a 5 month German Shepherd puppy from an unwanted home.. a month later i found lumps everywhere. She had blood cancer.

You do not grieve alone. We stand with you on this and our hearts ache too.
 

Reeny

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I'm also going to say this to @@Reeny, I have spent the last 24 hours trying my darnedest to find any medical literature talking about bone marrow suppression in acute PBFD cases....there is nothing. I've shown this thread to my vet who does not at all agree that this is the way young PBFD birds typically present or pass. The circovirus test you have received a positive result for is only, and I repeat only, an antigen test. It is not and never will be a diagnosis. The only conclusion that a single positive test can definitively reach is that your bird was exposed to the circovirus at some point in time. Without corresponding histiopathological and physical findings it is impossible to medically conclude that your bird died from circovirus (PBFD) or complications there of. Maybe there is more information that has not been shared here, but what has been shared does not explain cause of death. No decent medical practitioner makes a definitive diagnosis based on a positive antigen test only.....veterinary or otherwise. It is bad medicine to do so!

Well you are correct this was the blood test but dr. Harris did send tissue for histopatholigy. We will see what her tissue show.

Crazy4parrot you talked about her wbc they were low she was neutropenic it did show signs of infection it show her immune system was not producing bone marrow cell. Same with her Rbc.

Also it wasn't a pet store it was a bird store there aren't any dogs walking around. It was a bird store and quite possibly Lili parent transmitted the disease to her.
 
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jmfleish

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Once again, yes, if you bring a bird into the place where birds live that have PBFD that hasn't been cleaned very, very well, yes, you are going to have problems. Your chances of taking this disease out of your house and transferring it to other birds on your clothes is not so great. Yes, it lives for a long time in the environment it comes from but it doesn't tend to just travel on people's clothes and bodies. On things that the bird who has the disease uses, sure, that's much different than the humans who care for the birds. I agree with others who have made the comments that there seems to be a bit of hysteria over this.

Now, I'm not sure why we are talking about dogs and cats, but this disease is NOT zoonotic, it does not travel from dogs to cats or birds to dogs,etc. It's not relevant there at all.

PBFD is a problem here in the US in parrots. It hasn't been as prevalent, but it has always been here. It is generally fatal in baby birds. Adult birds don't tend to do much better although a few do seem be able to survive the disease, most do not. It is a hideous disease and the US is not immune.
 

JAM

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There is now a vaccine for this virus being utilized in Australia.

In Australia, a killed vaccine has been developed which can protect unexposed birds; it can cause more severe disease in birds already showing signs of PBFD. Birds should be vaccinated as young as possible, as soon as 14 days of age. The vaccine should be boostered after one month, and breeding birds should be vaccinated one month prior to breeding.

I am guessing that bio companies un the US are working on this vaccine also but not sure.
Is this recent because the previous vaccine is not used and no vet will back it either for use.
If it is a new one I will ask my CAV about it to find out more for you guys.
 

TWR

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Is this recent because the previous vaccine is not used and no vet will back it either for use.
If it is a new one I will ask my CAV about it to find out more for you guys.
Please do and share :)

I plan on asking my AV at my next visit and will share what I find - but I don't have a visit scheduled so it might be a while.
 

Crazy4parrots

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Crazy4parrot you talked about her wbc they were low she was neutropenic it did show signs of infection it show her immune system was not producing bone marrow cell. Same with her rbc.
There must have been a genetic disease causing that! Also i read some meds can cause the same issues... yes you mentioned they went down to 3...
 

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I'm saying that it was a stroke of luck to find that she had PBFD. Your vet had no reason to test for it from your explanation of her symptoms and evaluating her bloodwork. Being positive for the virus is not what took her life, birds affected with PBFD usually pass from secondary infections caused be their weakened immune system. Your girl had no infections and you are still without answers to her cause of death. All of that must be making this much more difficult for you. :sadhug:
That's not true at all, actually. Young birds can have acute episodes like this little one did and pass away very suddenly and tragically. That's how most birds with PBFD pass away. It's the adults that begin to show symptoms that succumb to secondary infections.
 

Milo

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I have to agree with this. While PBFD is incredibly hard to get rid of, I don't think it's nearly that hard to spread and I don't think that it lives that long outside its host. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious.
It does live in the environment for a long time, it is like parvovirus in dogs. The thing is that adult birds with competent immune systems are more immune. This is a disease that parrots get when they are exposed to it as young birds and their immune systems are not developed.
 

Macawnutz

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That's not true at all, actually. Young birds can have acute episodes like this little one did and pass away very suddenly and tragically. That's how most birds with PBFD pass away. It's the adults that begin to show symptoms that succumb to secondary infections.

I would certainly stand corrected by your knowledge Jen. If this were my situation I would have done more tests and asked a ton of questions.
 

Crazy4parrots

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It does live in the environment for a long time, it is like parvovirus in dogs. The thing is that adult birds with competent immune systems are more immune. This is a disease that parrots get when they are exposed to it as young birds and their immune systems are not developed.
Exactly like i said it is like Parvo in dogs. In dogs when they have vomits and diarrhea they shed the virus through the diarrhea.
Im a vet student 1st semester but i got more experience with dogs and cats than the 200 other students. They barely know what is a dog or cat. Everyone ask me on my classroom for advices. Im one of the best in my classroom..and teachers are happy with my academic records. I read lots of article as i intend to become avian vet or exotic pet vet so i want to learn as much as possible about birds from 100% of vets that graduates from my University 70% goes to dogs & cats.. 20% attends big animals (cattle for production) & 10% for exotic pets from which 5% goes to become only avian vets.
Sadly,in my country only sick birds goes to the vet. Healthy birds never goes to the vet (they think its stressful for birds to go out of their homes: this was said by Baylee's vet.) Said by her im in the 1% of people that takes their healthy parrots to the vet.
 
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