BFA 3 months, aggression, wing clipping?

[Fuzzy]

Really looking forward to knowing the sex!
And I realize I haven't told you his name yet!!
We call "him" Kilo But we are considering a name change for Kilo when we figure out the sex so thats why I haven't told it yet heheh.

A new picture:

View attachment 155580

He certainly looks very comfortable there! The boing looks great already with the rope ball. It's lovely to see how Kilo is immediately interested in new things. Love the name Kilo by the way! I think it would suit and girl or a boy.

 

[Freddyparrot]

Thanks for the tips everyone, I will see what I can make.
And yes Fuzzy, he jumped up there like he had been waiting on it to appear heheh. I attached some toilet paper rolls as someone else hinted on the boing too as he sometimes get those on his cage, much to his liking. True, Kilo does fit a boy or a girl but I do hope its a girl after what I've read about hormonal males.

Anyway, I'm really having a issue here regarding the biting, and I do hope its a phase but I kinda feel like I need some help.. I live with my fiancee as said and she has a really hard time with him. She was helping me hand feed Kilo in the beginning and everything went so smooth, but then something must have happened and now he only likes me. I do think I need someone else but me to handle him both for socializing him and to avoid him becoming a one-man bird as an adult (which he now already is), or what do you think?
I have two books on amazons, and another book about parrots in general, but I can't say they help much when it comes to this.
Its really depressing, and I have been crying tonight because of Kilo as I feel this is embarrassing (even writing this is) and I have done something wrong in raising him this far.

I have had parrots before and have worked with parrots in pet stores (including a green wing macaw), so I have experience with parrots of all sizes, and before Kilo I didnt have a parrot for 5 years as I was waiting till I got my own apartment to get one again, and that left a hole in my heart until now and I kinda feel I chose the wrong species as I knew amazons could be "biters", but I didn't know it would be like this, and this early.
Obviously he is telling her to back off and has bonded extremely well with me and considers me the favorite person, and I'm wondering if she should just leave him alone for a while and only me handle him and reward him for good behavior, and when he's older allow other people (including my fiancee) to handle him again? I think that might sound like a bad idea, but I feel something has to be done and its not too late as he is still very young (soon 4 months), I just don't know how to proceed, so any help or methods here is really appreciated!

When he bites or lunges, is there something we could do, or is it best to just ignore him? What do you guys do when your zon has stepped up willingly and looking happy and then bites you? Put him back or just ignore him and let him bite? Could it be a good idea to just let him bite my finger as much as he wants when that happens? He does bite hard but I don't really get "hurt" even though he bites me to blood

Now don't get me wrong, Kilo isn't a monster and he isn't going anywhere no matter what as I love him very much, just as my fiancee does, she knows how happy I am because I finally have a parrot again and if all goes bad and he ends up hating her for the rest of his life so be it, but I will do whatever it takes to try and make my little buddy like her (and other people).

All his good qualities that I can sum up fast are: steps up, steps down, flies to me when I say come, follows the target stick very well (when I do it), likes to be scratched on the ear (always yawn when I do that haha, got it on video and might post it later), really likes to be cuddled on his cheek and beak and neck and back of the head etc, and loves when we both sing with him, he has started whistling and I know he soon will say "hello" and "hi", he loves when both of us mist him with water and so on. So lots of good qualities already, but the biting is scaring my fiancee to come close him.
Most of these things only include me though, and he is a very happy parrot with me.

Ok, enough rambling, sorry for the wall of text hehe.
Thanks for your warm welcome and help everybody, really appreciate every input here!

Here we are on the beach two-three weeks ago by the way! Lots of sun and fresh sea air equals one happy parrot!

 

[Glowbird]

Don't worry so much. Birds are pretty good at figuring out when their people are anxious--and then figuring out how to make them even more anxious. You have a toddler (with a big beak) who will go through lots of phases and keep trying to see what he can get away with. Just because he's doing something now doesn't mean he'll be doing it for the rest of his life. Better to under react than to overreact. My Horatio when through a phase of flying into my head. Yes, just bashing right into me. I learned to duck and walk away and he got bored with it. If he bites me too hard, I calmly put him down and leave the room without saying a word. Game over. If your zon knows he can upset you--then he has a tool to use to control your behavior. So, relax.

 

[Freddyparrot]

True, it does sound like a phase, and he is very young. So I think my fiancee should leave him alone for a while and only sing/whistle with him. However that means only I will be handling him, and I don't know if thats smart?

 

[Love My Zons]

I am going to go with the challenge factor of the smartness of a Zon. They will seek attention and come to you when they want to. Some are not the snuggle bugs and some are. An Amazon is good at choosing his or her bestie, it is nature and that is the way it goes. Here the bestie for my male Red Lored is his Daddy. He loves, loves him. If they are hanging out together, he will not step up to me he wants just what he wants.

Sometimes you have to think like an Amazon. If your Fiancee stays away, does her thing he may or may not seek attention from her. It seems as if the bond if there between you and him. If you are the more favorite chosen one he is just telling you he's yours. Welcome to the life of a 3 way relationship They truly are manageable, you just have to think like them and not push them because her wanting to touch, handle or hold if he simply wants you instead will surely trigger those little bites. He is only saying to you 'back off' I am good where I am right now.

 

[CheekyBeaks]

Are you familiar with Barbara Heidenreichs work? If not you may like to have a look at her website Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books and read her books or get a training DVD. I had the opportunity to attend a workshop of hers here in Australia and it was a fantastic experience and should help you a lot.

I am very fortunate that my amazon has never bitten he can get a little mouthy when playing and I use a firm 'ah-ah' when he applies pressure during play, he usually stops and looks at me and discontinues the behaviour, he responds very well to this and his mouthyness has lessened. I have also taught him to 'let go' this includes his beak and feet as he also has a habit of holding onto me with his foot and not letting go, it's also handy if he picks something up he shouldn't have, he willingly lets go now when I ask him.

As for your partners relationship with kilo you really should be trying to solve this behaviour while he is still young as you will be spending a lifetime together she needs to have a positive relationship with him too. The older he gets and the more the behaviour sets in the more difficult it will become to correct. It may be a good idea for her to do some basic training sessions with him on her own, you may influence how he reacts to her, make sure her interactions are always positive and fun and try to let her offer the high value treats instead of you while they strengthen their relationship. Let her feed him more often so he sees her in a positive way.

 

[Fuzzy]

Loving all the advice you are getting. I'm going to add my thoughts too.

True, it does sound like a phase, and he is very young. So I think my fiancee should leave him alone for a while and only sing/whistle with him. However that means only I will be handling him, and I don't know if thats smart?

I think that's very smart for now. It won't be forever. Also try to work out what he gets from biting. To remove the finger in front of him? Or because he knows he is going straight back in his cage? Or........? Try to read his body language very carefully so that you can avoid the bite. If you and your fiancee carefully avoid him having to bite, then he will slowly get out of the habit. Meanwhile perhaps your fiancee could give him a treat if he will take it from her to show him that only good comes from her hands. If he won't take it from her hands she could put one down at a distance from him or in his food bowl as she passes. Go slowly. You both have all the time in the world to build up a trusting relationship. Don't ignore the bite as it may get harder, or worse still he will feel like he has no control over his own life. We are all happier (humans and animals) if we have some control over our lives.

Also make sure every interaction is positive - if you need to have him step up think about the reinforcement for that step up. It could be a yummy treat, or to be carried over to the window to look at the outside birds, or a head skritch - anything that he values. And if he has to go back into his cage, you could make sure there is a new toy to explore, or that breakfast is waiting or that there is a treat as a consequence.

Kobe my Pionus used to bite a lot when he was very young and draw blood. As soon as I was careful to observe his body language to avoid the bite at all costs, plus gave him a choice, rather than demanding he step up or interact with me, there was no reason for him to bite me any more. You can sway that choice by making the consequence for doing what you ask very attractive - be it a treat, kind words, a toy, a skritch... whatever is valuable to that particular bird. The way we all behave is shaped by the consequences for our behaviour. If a behaviour works (gets us a desired consequence) then we will repeat that behaviour, if it doesn't then we will change or modify our behaviour.

Why don't you check out the mini lessons on ParrotBAS which is a yahoo group: Yahoo! Groups The course is free, and very manageable time-wise even if you have a full time job. You will learn a lot about positive reinforcement training. It was devised by Dr Susan Friedman. There might be a little longer to wait than average because many of the tutors have just started teaching on another course - LLA (Living and Learning with Animals) which lasts about 8 weeks. There is a lot of great info to read on Susan's website: Welcome to BehaviorWorks.org

 

[Freddyparrot]

Thanks for the advice everyone, and as a little update my fiancee was able to target train him with clicker and a nectarine on the cage today just all of a sudden! So there's a start.

Claire: Haha, yes, this sure sounds like a difficult 3-way relationship!
I do wish to have another parrot buddy for Kilo, although we live in an apartment that we bought earlier this year so I don't want more than one cage here (not enough space ), and I don't think this cage would fit two parrots, at least not two amazon sized parrots. One option would be to have a bit bigger cage (I do dream of building one my self with plexi glass etc ), but I'm not sure if having two parrots in the same cage is a good idea?

Also, are there any other parrots besides amazons that are known to go well along with them? I'm guessing greys or similar sized macaws/cockatoos, but besides that, maybe a tad bit smaller species? How about the indian ring-neck parakeet or green cheeked conure or cockatiel? Guessing the GCconures and cockatiels are too small considering the "bossy" nature of amazons, but I have good experience with those two species from earlier anyhow. I read on another forum that GCconures usually go well along with BFA but unsure if the source is reliable..

Now the plan is to make my fiancee more interesting I guess haha, so I will make her do some target training every day and slowly see if she is allowed to have him step up etc.

Ann-Marie: Yes, I have heard a lot about Barbara's work, and sorry, I forgot to answer to those who mentioned her earlier (lots to answer and read at the same time here, hehe). And I think I might have some of her dvds laying around from earlier on a hard drive somewhere (got them from a friend), although I'm unsure which of them I have if any.
And same here, both me and my fiancee too say "no" in a firm and calm manner when he bites. Also I scratch his beak with my nail and that kinda calms him down.
And I think that sounds reasonable and logical as well, they need to become friends when he's young. But I'm amazed that she was allowed to target train him today, so that's a plus, I guess it depends on his mood heheh. I will tell my fiancee to keep her distance but continue to give him treats/food as well as continue to try and target train him to build trust and in the end I hope she will be able to have him step up and bite less.

Roz: Loving all the advice I'm getting too, so thankful for the help I've gotten so far!
I agree, I think she should keep a small distance for now as well, at least when it comes to "step up" or anything involving touching him, but still try to give him treats and if she's allowed try yo target train him to avoid him having no interaction with her at all.
Regarding what he likes as a treat anything involving food or scratches or singing/whistling works well! And I do try to make any interaction positive, which goes well when it comes to me, so I need to make every "interaction" with my fiancee positive even if its the smallest thing. I do make my own toys, mostly from wood and hemp rope, but I love making toys so I will continue experimenting with toy-making.
Avoiding him biting in the first place like you and Kobe the pionus (cute name btw!) sounds like a good plan indeed!

I will check out the links, thanks! although I don't have a yahoo account, hehe! Will read on behaviorworks.org tomorrow!

 

[Love My Zons]

Thanks for the advice everyone, and as a little update my fiancee was able to target train him with clicker and a nectarine on the cage today just all of a sudden! So there's a start.

Claire: Haha, yes, this sure sounds like a difficult 3-way relationship!
I do wish to have another parrot buddy for Kilo, although we live in an apartment that we bought earlier this year so I don't want more than one cage here (not enough space ), and I don't think this cage would fit two parrots, at least not two amazon sized parrots. One option would be to have a bit bigger cage (I do dream of building one my self with plexi glass etc ), but I'm not sure if having two parrots in the same cage is a good idea?

Two sharing the same cage is not a good idea. I have two juvenile males and they can be in the same cage together when they are outside only. They seem to behave alittle less outgoing when they go outside. Here in the house there is no cage issues with them both being in and out of Hoosier's cage which is in the main area of the house. At times I have caught them in there together and you may get some grappling with their play that at times can end up where they are taking beaking stabs at one another. Not aggressive like to inflict harm or damage but two kids squabbling with each other.

When the time came to add another Amazon, I decided that same sex would be the way to go, this way as they aged and changed hormonally it would be maturation of the same sex. Nothing to defend nor try to impress. I also chose a Mealy because they are said to be good with other birds. I also do not have one of the 'hot three' in Amazons. Your Blue Front is considered one of the hot three, just a bit more challenging due to their nature. Now if you want to do some reading where a Man and Women moved in with each other Stevo who is where with Birdybea have Danny a Yellow Naped who at first would give her a hard time, I believe now she is able to handle Danny like on his terms. That is the thing with Amazons, if they want attention on their terms they will surely come over to let you know.

Just take it slow, you have years of an ever developing relationship. He may end up being good with both of you. For now, it appears that he likes you a lot which is fine. If you are the bestie, nothing you can do other than just make sure your Girl doesn't feel left out.

 

[Freddyparrot]

Alright, that's what I thought as well regarding keeping two parrots in the same cage. We'll see in the future regarding more parrots, I do want some buddies for him, but as of now we enjoy Kilo for our self. Will remember what you say about same sex.
And that sounds reassuring regarding the yellow naped accepting the other person in the end! We'll take it slow for sure, lots of time considering these guys can reach the same age as humans heheh.

I will make sure my girl doesn't feel left out, trust me! Heheh.

 

[Freddyparrot]

Here's also a picture of a swing I made yesterday, still need some more toys in it though:

 

[Fuzzy]

You're so clever - that's a great swing! You are going to have so many holes in that ceiling!!!

 

[Katy]

Thanks for the answer!

Yes, that might be a good idea. The cage is probably the only place that is "safe" for him to land on so I guess I maybe should add some landing spot elsewhere in the living room.. The chandelier also has chains along the wire so thats probably why he likes it so much, he doesn't have chains to climb on as of yet, I am able to find chains at hardware stores around the area, but Im not sure if its safe to use the galvanized steel chains they sell there for him?

Also to add a question, when he has the aviator harness on he doesn't fly to the chandelier and he seems a lot calmer when he has the harness on, but I'm wondering if there are any alternative harnesses for parrots I could use?
I do like the aviator harness, but I would like it if the line attached was able to be taken on and off quickly, because I like to have him outside on the porch and let him stay in the harness on top of the cage, but I would like it if I could take off the line and let him fly inside a bit before letting him out on the porch again without having to take the harness off.

Also, here is a picture of our little friend napping on the porch and enjoying the sun

View attachment 155213

What a beauty!

 

[Freddyparrot]

You're so clever - that's a great swing! You are going to have so many holes in that ceiling!!!

Hahaha, we'll see! So far he has not attempted biting the ceiling its plasterboard so kinda easy for their powerful beak to bite through. Anyway its possible to fix holes and such in it if that happens!
And thank you, but I kinda need some more toys other than wood with holes drilled in and rope strung through haha!
I wish to add some color to the wood (and later other materials used as toys), but I read that food coloring is not a good idea due to it giving taste and ingesting the wood is not healthy, so what else can I use?

I do need to make a couple of toys that makes a sound, so we'll see how that goes, stainless steel spoon is a good idea as someone was wise enough to say earlier, and I'm gonna look for something at a hardware store/toy store. I'm thinking it might be easy to make some noise-toy from stainless steel nuts and stainless steel washer and then apply them to some rope and knots to make some noise!

Katy: Aww, Kilo says thanks!


Still no sign of the DNA results, but I hope they will arrive within a week!

 

[Freddyparrot]

Alright, time for an update here!
DNA-results arrived some weeks ago, and Kilo is (as I thought) a MALE!!
He has learned a trick; turn around.

As for the "aggression" or "defensiveness", I believe the full cause of this is because he actually is territorial of and around his cage.. He usually sits on top of the cage all day (it has a playpen), I don't like him to stay inside the cage except when he is supposed to be asleep or when we are not at home.
The reason I discovered this is because Kilo now has been living for 3 days at my mother-in-law as I am out of town for a week (first time since we got him). There, he has a new cage that he has never been in before, sadly a bit too big for our appartment, its to stay on our porch during summer as it has a roof included so Kilo can stay outside.

And so far these 3 days Kilo has been TOTALLY different since day one, as my fiancee has been able to hold him without him biting/snapping after her (he seem to "test" her alot at home), shes allowed to take him out of his cage, and even allowed to have him on her shoulder..

So, I seem to have figured out the cause of the problem, now I kinda need expert advice on what to do... I have some ideas my self, however I would like a comment on these or other suggestions..
Do I have to get rid of the cage he is territorial of? This would be difficult because then I don't know where to keep him.. Although I'm considering switching the cage and make a tree where the cage currently stands by using a christmas tree-foot and applying a tree from outside.. Would this be a smart thing?
Or should I simply ignore him when I get home and he is around the cage, trying to let my fiancee have as much contact with him as long as he is not biting again?

 

[Chantilly Lace]

We have a room where we don't have ceiling fans, and bird proofed it. We have climbing nets, which they LOVE, so they spend most of their time on those.. We also put things they don't like, the dremel, and put that on top of the TV or where we don't want them flying. We have a dremel box, so we use that too. Lol. Once they stay away, they break the habit and leave it along. Maybe you can put up some bird friendly shelves, just plain untreated pine, and let him go to town!

 

[Mara&Lilo]

Hi, first I´m very very glad to hear from your decision not to clip him. That is a cruel method and nobody who likes his companion bird should think about it!!! Birds have to fly, that´s because they have wings.
You found a nice solution for your chandelier problem. My girl liked to fly to my chandeliers as well, because of two reasons. First in wild parrots are prey, so it is a good strategy for surviving to sit on the highest perch. The second reason is simple. You don´t like her to sit there so you say "no", "go away" and so on. You give him attention and that is something parrots like most. We did the like of you and gave ours a high perch where they can stay without interruption(look a the picture )Your little boy is only a child now and he has to learn many things. You have to teach him what is allowed and forbidden and in the mean time he will test you. It´s very similar with human childrens.
Now I would like to say something about your biting problem. It can be a problem that you handraised your little bird. That´s why, because of handraising most birds loose most of their natural caution in humans. It is often read that such birds bite more often and are far more aggressive sometimes. But in the aggression point I have to admit, that if you don´t like aggressive and moody bird you really choose the wrong species!
I don´t think he´s territorial for the cage, first he is to young for such behavior and you said that he bites in many other cases too. It is normal for young animals and humans to be rude. Normally they learn such things from their parents! but because you took him of them you have to teach him. He don´t knows that biting is painful for you. He only wants to get what he wants and that can be to stay at your chandelier, also if you don´t like it. You two should should train a lot with him and be calm. If he´s on your hand and bite without signs you should get him of your hand and ignore him for a while. He will not like the situation, because he wants to be with you. You should train that with little steps and it is important to not let him bite you!!! Learn to recognize his body language. And don´t forget the reward One thing you really shouldn´t do is screaming if he bites you or your fiancee. That would be a reward too.
The last thing I want to admit is you should really really get a second BFA with nearly the same age(of course a girl). Birds needs to fly and they are nothing without their flock and even if some people think different about it, humans are nice for a parrot but there is no compare to a real bird mate. Humans don´t have the same language, can´t fly, don´t eat the same things, don´t sleep and cuddle with the bird on a perch, don´t play bird games and are not 24 hours a day with the bird. I think nobody can deny these facts and still think a human as a good companion for a bird. I promise you your problems with your comapnion parrot will be way more numerous without a second bird than with one. Think about mating season and breeding time (by the way three month a year, when your bild is grown up). In this time you will be glad that it is not you who is choosen as a mate and your fiancee will be glad too, because your little boy will defend you and his choosen breeding space against everyone!!! In the case your fiancee will be bitten in such a situation your fiancee will laugh about the "little" bites you two earn this time Think about it. And birds are soooo more cute if they be with each other Look at the picture.

 

[dolldid]

sorry your having problems but the sounds of it you need to have many changes to do
firts thing idwould do is hang toys he can land on through out be for you consider clipping also place parrot stands around im not sure if you in an apt or house but if hes not caged he need his own places to land cage isnt enough with some wood im sure your bf could make a few cheap parrot stands
I got Mango at a yr old and lived in a very small apt still do 2 rooms I also had 300 dolls on shelfs on all my walls and to this day hes still cage free and has never distroyed a thing or ever touched a doll.
It sounds like he hasnt got a place he can call his own you opened your goors and heart but still havent provided his area you have your things a place to sit where you want well he needs the same and please remember when you set out to give him his things please do not with out asking him dowhat y you want meaning to come .

ok ill explain when Mango is on say his parrot stand and i want him i ask him offering my hand DO YOU WANT TO COME reason Im showing him this is his place not mine now if hes sat on the back of a chair i say COME ON LETS GO this way he learned what his and whats mine , also it in my mind i respect .if on his and he dosent come Iwalk away and come back, on mine I take him I dont walk away .
there are many things you can make cheap might not look as great as something you buy but till you can aford the best your bird wont care as long a its his
I will try post a few pics if you would like of things I have had to live with all because i cant aford to buy but I will say looks dont count as long as my bird is happy and afe
its time your baby had a home he can call his .
Sorry if i sound im being rude I dont mean it in that way so please forgive me you have provided and just havent thought you need all this when buying a bird ,,lolat least you didnt think, you should have had this befor hand,,lol
many people owners of birds have large space but theres a lot of us that dont and if you want your home to be a show place id say forget birds,,lol un less you have money
so please take what i have said in good fath as i do mean it to help and im glad your here on AA cause it is the best form you could join they dont come any better
hugs doll Mango

 

[Freddyparrot]

Thanks for the replies everyone! A lot to answer here as you have good points, sorry for wall of text
Chantel:
The chandelier is no longer a problem after the boing, hehe, sorry I forgot to mention that in the "update post". But thanks for the tip with something like a scarecrow ("scare "zon""??). I like the idea of the climbing nets, I will have to see if I can make one out of hemp rope. He has lots of wood to chew on also.

Mara&Lilo:
First of all, your birds looks absolutely beautiful and happy together!
Kilo will not be clipped, I've always been against wing clipping, only reason I would even consider it is if that meant he would be less aggressive towards my fiancee. I kinda think of clipping as the same as if someone has a dog and they decide to remove their legs as they don't want to walk them.
Like I said to Chantel the boing fixed the chandelier issue.
And you have valid points about hand raising, I would not do that again, but so many recommend it so I was kinda fooled there.

I know zons are known for "moody" and "nippyness", but he never bites me, and I know he can be the same way to my fiancee as well. So I am going to try and ignore him a bit and let my fiancee handle him when I get home. The weird thing is that it is ONLY at home with his old cage, now in his new cage there is no problem at all towards her.
I promise you there are no screaming or yelling or any kind of punishment towards him when biting. I know very well that it works the opposite way by doing that, heheh.

A friend for Kilo is the plan, and I want it as soon as possible, but I'm not sure if I want another BFA, and as you said BFA is a moody species.. What do you think of another species than BFA as a friend? For instance indian ringnecked parakeet, white fronted zon (A. albifrons) or lilac crowned zon (A. finschi)?
I've read about those at least, and I really like the ringneck as I have experience with them, so kinda leaning towards the ringneck, and of the amazons I would prefer a lilac crowned or white fronted, so we'll see..

Dolly:
I find it a bit hard to understand everything you write, but like I have said many times he's not going to be clipped. I'm also the man of the house, and I make all the toys for him, and I've even posted pictures of landing spots around the house, for instance a homemade swing and the boing, and he's allowed to land on other places obviously, it was only the chandelier that was the problem because of the electrical wires.
And not to be rude, but have you even read what has been written? Or even seen the pictures? I don't blame you for not reading everything, as I have "writing-itches" and write a lot when I do trying to explain everything. All I can say is that both me and my fiancee take good care of all our animals, and we do everything for them, Kilo is almost never inside the cage from morning till night and is allowed to fly to the boing or whatnot or sit on my shoulder for hours or stay on his cage (he prefer the cage top). The only issue now is that he is being aggressive towards my fiancee, but that doesn't mean that he's going anywhere, and I think he will be better with time.

 

[dolldid]

oh my gosh im so sorry you did take what i wrote the wrong way im a slow writer and i didnt see the pics , I was also impressed you hand fed, and never thought you were or even was thinking of giving up you baby that wasnt even passing in my mind . ok yrs ago I had a UT and never had internet this UT was nothing but a suck had her 3 1/2 yrs and was caged free she wasnt clipped and I took her out side put her on the ground she folloed me every where I new nothing about harness or clipping but not only that I didnt know about toys or wood nothing I did know how to feed her and love her but wish I knew then what I know today , It takes me long to type as I am almot blind that is no excuse to be rude but I didnt see the pics till long after I posted .
I am so sorry i ofended you my post was not ment to do it . I hope you can foegive me , I know there were many posts that got posted while I was typing mine and when I looked back I saw your pics, I also for some reaspn thought it was your fiancee posting,,lol dont ask why I just did .
All I ment was and hope I say this right was a bird cage free need his own space and places to land things hanging and stands ot table tith a stand on it and freedom to play something to call there own
I have a frontroom kitchen and a bed room Mango has never been caged except at bed time his choice hes over 7 yrs old and it hasent been easy living with a free Amazon in a small space he has what is to have been the frontroom
as his play area , my place isnt bird proof by any means my comp is almose under his net his play area but because i dont bother him when hes on his things im thinking that is why I havent had a problem his cage is in my bedroom .
zons are very agressof and yes he does attact but with wornings I have learned to know how to ward it off what works for on dosent always work for a nother but knowing your bird and understanding him you learn and its not always from books , I have had to give up tv cause Mango dosent like tv radio or sound from computer I tryed clicker training only to be attacked I refuse to use the stick training cause I sure as H wouldnt want one sruck at me im not saying there not good to use it just wouldnt work with Mando
you guys have done greaty keep it up and again sorry it takes me so long in posting

I only wish I coud have the yrs with Mango you will have with your baby ill be lucky to see him through the teens as I hear the older they get they change , in his 6 yrs with me I have seen many changes for the better if thats posable you will see many in yours to enjoy them its like watching a child grow
this has taken over 1/2 hr to do so ill go again sorry doll