Lunging/biting

[PacificPaulie]

Hey all!

Paulie has recently adopted lunging/biting behavior. Problem is, we can't narrow down behavior on our end that precedes this. I'm thinking (and hoping) that it's a phase of his. He's about 20wks now.

So my question is: how do we respond to lunging/biting behavior?

We don't want to encourage this behavior and it happens in multiple contexts (sitting on one's shoulder, lunging at his chop bowl, lunging at one's hand when trying to adjust his playstand, WHICH by the way he never cared for before, lunging at one's hand when trying to stop him from destruction, etc.). Quite honestly, I think I may have inadvertently encouraged biting behavior by trying to associate a positive reinforcer to the comment "no". His smart little blue behind will bite me, stop, and look at me when he knows I've got treats. And when he doesn't get a treat, he bites harder.

We simply don't know what to do but we know we want to try to curb his behavior if it's a phase. Any guidance provided would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Gribouille]

Best is to ignore him/leave the room whenever you can, try to redirect his attention to something positive..

 

[Leih]

I definitely think birds go through a nippy jerk phase, I currently have a conure in it. I also have a lovebird who I think are a very similar temperament to parrotlets. She was biting a lot and I was having trouble teaching her step up but the thing that worked for us was target training. I would ask her to step up and if she bit, no click, no treat, and I turned my back to her for about 5 seconds. With my conure I'm kind of trying out the theory that he's getting overstimulated and so he gets nippy. I should really be clicker training with him, it's just he gets sooooo excited about a treat that he can't focus. So basically I think target training helps redirect their behavior and reinforce good behaviors even though you're working on something specific. Plus it's great bonding and keeps their brains busy. Also , many people don't allow their birds on their shoulders /it's a reward to be on the shoulder, but I get it, my conure wants at my neck all the time and it's hard to break it.

 

[Gribouille]

I think target training helps redirect their behavior and reinforce good behaviors even though you're working on something specific. Plus it's great bonding and keeps their brains busy.

I want to clicker-train Pichu when we are done with quarantine, and I think several persons here could be interested. Maybe you could start at thread about how you do it?

 

[JLcribber]

Well first off that's very much a parrotlets personality so much of this is normal. A giant amazon in puny body.

Quite honestly, I think I may have inadvertently encouraged biting behavior by trying to associate a positive reinforcer to the comment "no". His smart little blue behind will bite me, stop, and look at me when he knows I've got treats. And when he doesn't get a treat, he bites harder.

You nailed it. Your "reaction" is a "drama reward" so you did make a normal thing worse. Any reaction is just that, a reaction. Good or bad. Add some verbiage to your reaction and you've added drama. Even so far as to make it a game now.

Undesirable behaviour should be ignored. If persistent we withdraw our attention (fly away) (which is what they really wanted). Walk away for 45 seconds and try again.

 

[PacificPaulie]

Thank you all for your recommendations. I do notice some commonality in recommendations, primarily that I should walk away. However, in this I run into a problem. Paulie won't let me walk away.

I know that sounds kinda silly. Let me explain. I try to walk away for any reason, and Paulie trails me. He's like a little blue bat following my dark cloud of curly hair. His navigation of our living space is quite impressive... He even turns the corner into the hallway and the second corner into our bathroom to find me when I try to walk away.
Ssssoooo... Other suggestions? Or maybe suggestions for helping him understand my walking away is a time out?
(Before anyone gets on it, I want to point out we take every reasonable precaution possible in our living space. We acknowledge Paulie's awesome capabilities, thus the toilet cover is closed at all times and the bedroom door is always shut because the cieling fan in there is on. Paulie is safe and very well loved here... This is why we acknowledge the unique challenges in our living space (like a completely open design) and are trying to work around them.)

 

[PacificPaulie]

You nailed it. Your "reaction" is a "drama reward" so you did make a normal thing worse. Any reaction is just that, a reaction. Good or bad. Add some verbiage to your reaction and you've added drama. Even so far as to make it a game now.[/QUOTE]

The problem therein is the massive amount of information on the internet. I have researched as extensively as time would allow me (full-time grad student here... Don't usually have much free time but I try) but information on "no bite" training is always conflicting.

Ignore the bites because no reaction is best.
Don't ignore the bites because it's a reinforcer.
Add a positive reinforcer to the "no-bite" command to increase the desired behavior.
Put the bird in "time-out" (this one I don't necessarily like).

How's a gal supposed to know which route to go other than trial and error?

 

[Fuzzy]

Try removing the reinforcement for biting by freezing for a moment. Then cue another behaviour asap and highly reinforce that.

Also think about how you could do things differently to avoid him lunging biting in the first place. Eg. fiddle with his perch/chop bowl before he comes out of his cage. Avoid him being on your shoulder until he is more trustworthy - highly reinforce his playing somewhere else.

 

[Gribouille]

Thank you all for your recommendations. I do notice some commonality in recommendations, primarily that I should walk away. However, in this I run into a problem. Paulie won't let me walk away.

I suppose you don't need to go anywhere, just turn your back and shut him out for a half minute. He should not get attention for being naughty, so removing attention should be OK?

 

[PacificPaulie]

@Fuzzy
I have noticed recently that I can avoid the bite after the lunge by freezing! For instance, here lately he gets upset when we remove his seed bag from him when he finds it (I swear the little stinker goes looking for it). He'll lunge, bite, and then go running after us asking, "Whatcha doing?" However, when I freeze in response to his lunge and move slowly he doesn't follow through on the bite.

Does this seem like an appropriate response? Could any unexpected consequences be prospected through this response?

 

[JLcribber]

You can trust just about any information you receive here because this is a conversation that is read by many in the "community". Bad info doesn't go un noticed or last long before it is called out.

My opinions are based on actual experience with topics. Also a lot of trial and error. That's why we share. To avoid the error part.

 

[Gribouille]

@Fuzzy
I have noticed recently that I can avoid the bite after the lunge by freezing! For instance, here lately he gets upset when we remove his seed bag from him when he finds it (I swear the little stinker goes looking for it). He'll lunge, bite, and then go running after us asking, "Whatcha doing?" However, when I freeze in response to his lunge and move slowly he doesn't follow through on the bite.

Does this seem like an appropriate response? Could any unexpected consequences be prospected through this response?

Seems like you have your hands full with Paulie, he is clever!! I also noticed that Pichu would lunge/bite for some of my actions but not if I do the same thing slowly. So slow is good. But you could also secure his seed bag in a box, so to avoid the situation at all!

 

[Leih]

@JLcribber is this too early for hormonal behavior? I went through something similar with my male linnie, but he was 10 months.

 

[JLcribber]

@JLcribber is this too early for hormonal behavior? I went through something similar with my male linnie, but he was 10 months.

I'm not familiar with Linnies but most medium and smaller species of parrots are in breeding condition by the second season or sooner. Captivity quite often has a way of speeding this timetable up. They all start "practicing" before they are actually old enough. So you could have randy teenager.

 

[Leih]

Doesn't hurt to approach it like he is hormonal and see if he settles down. Ie increase dark, tons of foraging to keep busy. My lovebird became a monster who bit hard but 13 hrs of dark and she's much better. I also rearrange her cage every other week or so.

 

[PacificPaulie]

But you could also secure his seed bag in a box, so to avoid the situation at all!

You know, it tickles me the balance of strengths and weaknesses that my husband and I contribute to our "parenting" our animals. Hubby has long since figured out that putting Paulie's seed in a box helps avoid the situation, but I'm the ditz who keeps putting it where she's used to putting it. However, I (usually) respond much more favorably to Paulie's biting than my husband does. The man can break and reset his thumb without an issue, but a little bird nibble makes him shriek. I mean, to be fair, Paulie can bite pretty hard already. But I wonder why it seems that every "bite" elicits a reaction from my husband whereas only the bites that leave marks elicits the same type of response from me.

Paulie loves my husband...I can certainly tell that much. But hubby and I are starting to wonder if Paulie is struggling with perceptions of divided attention when the both of us are present. Could anyone speak to this? Paulie is as sweet as he was at 3wks old when it's just him and I... But his bitiness really happens during regular family time. Do P'lets struggle to divide their humans? Can they get jealous? Could it just be the time of day we're trying to make regular family time happen (6:30 M-F)?

Oh! I should also add that during my month of travels hubby had virtually no issues with Paulie's behavior. He was as sweet with him as he is with me alone...

 

[JLcribber]

Give this a read. The birds and bees. Parrot style.

Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine

 

[Gribouille]

Give this a read. The birds and bees. Parrot style.

Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine

Wow John, the whole site is amazing, so many good advice there! Thanks for sharing

 

[fashionfobie]

I will also contribute that birds can display sexual behaviour early in captive settings.

Plumhead parrots for example normally don't have their first clutch of chicks until they are 5 years old in the wild, but in captivity they can have a clutch as early as 3 years old.

 

[Fuzzy]

@Fuzzy
I have noticed recently that I can avoid the bite after the lunge by freezing! For instance, here lately he gets upset when we remove his seed bag from him when he finds it (I swear the little stinker goes looking for it). He'll lunge, bite, and then go running after us asking, "Whatcha doing?" However, when I freeze in response to his lunge and move slowly he doesn't follow through on the bite.

Does this seem like an appropriate response? Could any unexpected consequences be prospected through this response?

Great! Do what works because you need to get him out of this habit. The more he bites in a certain situation, the more he is learning to... which is why you should always aim to avoid the bite. Chasing a moving object can be reinforcing too. Freezing also nullifies that.